Awesome bassist post on the Phoenix CL

[NickInMesa]

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/muc/1972433180.html

Let me quote it before it gets flagged:

So you want to find that bassist who will become a solid part of your group or project? Let me offer some words of wisdom on finding the soild player you've been seeking.

First about me. Ive been playing bass for over 30 years. Yep, one of those "old guys". Learned a few things over the years. Maybe it will help you. Remember this is just my opinion but based on years of playing all types of music.


1. Most good players will already have their style down and will be looking for groups or gigs that fit where they are at style wise. If your ad says something to the effect of "learning the bass part like the record". Well any GOOD player will just move on to the next ad. I mean hey I've played Mustang Sally 100's of times, am I going to play it like the record? No, and no other GOOD bassist I know will do so either. Will a good player play the song? Yes but they will impart their "own style" into it while maintaining the integrity of the song. Something that every good bassist does regardless of the tune. The exception are tunes that are "riff based" where you pretty much have to play the stock riff.

2. Please don't say stuff like "must have pro gear and transportation". Any bassist worth his chops already has decent gear and a way to haul it. We learned long ago that bass requires a bit more size and weight to get up to stage level volumes and have adjusted our backs and vehicles to match. Thankfully PA's and gear have gotten smaller and more efficient over the years so bassists no longer need to haul an Acoustic 370 and two 301 cabs (ouch been there done that).

3. Don't make your ad sound like "we are the next great supergroup". Again a good bassist has been around the block and has seen all that crap before. Any good player regardless of instrument knows there's no such thing as an overnight sensation in the music business.

4. I see a lot of posts where it sounds like a group is just looking for a bass because they "need to complete" their project. Really, that sounds like all of a sudden you remembered, OH CRAP we need a bass player. What do you really want? Just some dude to fill in the bass? Do you want to overlook what is going to be a key element to the success of your group? A bassist isn't something you just toss in at the end. The bass and drums are the foundation of a group, the glue that holds everything together. You must make sure that your bassist is, and feels like, an integral and all important part of your group. Why? Because they are! All good bassist's understand that and that's why they can pick and choose who they play with and where they play. Believe me, 99% of the time I've heard the phrase "ego tripper" or "big head" applied to a bassist, it was usually because they were being treated as a "second class" band member instead of a integral part of a group and told everybody to F-off! THINK ABOUT THAT

5. Another thing. Why do you even say the word "audition"? The only time that should be used is if your group is a solid touring, or a signed act. If not, and you use it, any good player will think about #4 above and wonder why you didn't build your band from the rhythm section up and not the other way around. I know lots of good bassist's who laugh at the audition word and look elsewhere. I mean they already have great chops gained from real world on stage experience. They don't need to audition. Well maybe they do, but trust me, they WILL be auditioning YOU! Not the other way around.

6. Saving the best for last. "How's you drummer"? In years of playing, I've seen all types. Here's a breakdown. Read on but be warned it gets long.

The types of drummers

Type 1

I'll call him the "Leader" - this type usually leads by the example of constantly rushing the beat, tries to fit a million notes into a fill which usually results in dropping a beat or two and as a bassist you have to carry the beat while he tries to catch up. This type of drummer is also known as a "basher" and always plays too loud with no dynamics.

Type 2

I'll call him the "Follower" - he's the opposite of type one. Constantly drags the beat. It doesn't matter what tempo the song is he will always slow down. The bassist will constantly have to carry the tempo while trying to get the drummer to speed it up a little. At least the Follower doesn't play too loud.

Type 3

I'll call him the "Cruiser" - he's a very common breed and you will meet and play with him just because you're tired of dealing with types 1 and 2. He doesn't fall into the category of either type 1 or type 2. He's a decent player, can do fills, kind of has dynamics and is fairly laid back and easy to work with. He only has one MAJOR problem, he's a "one tempo" drummer. No matter what you do he will always return to his one speed and comfort zone. Again a bassist is under stress because your drummer has his zone and can't vary from it. Your group is forced to pick tunes at the tempo he plays at. If it's faster than that, you start it real fast in hopes that you'll catch him off guard and make him play fast, never works, by the third or fourth measure he's in the zone. His zone that is. The same for slow songs you start off super slow and he speeds up to his "one speed". This type of drummer will choke the life out of any decent bassist and he / she will move on as soon as they find a better drummer to play with.

Type 4

I'll call him the "Builder" - he's a rare breed and when you find him, you KNOW he has what it takes. He knows how to build a tune from the foundation up. He has great dynamics, knows what fill will work where, never over or under plays. He's solid and his tempos cover any speed you throw at him. You NEVER have to worry with him, he's solid as a rock. He can drive the buss or ride it as a passenger depending on what the song requires. However he does have one problem, he's in short supply. Remember I said he was a rare breed. He's hard to find, usually always playing with someone else. However if you're lucky, you might catch him. There are type 4's out there who have been playing for years and you just have to find them.

A good bassist can tell in three or less songs what type of drummer you have. If you're having a hard time finding or keeping a bassist either a good or bad one, take a look at your foundation! Is it SOLID?

Now go out and find that bassist!

Type "bassist" in the search tool and see the whole "can't find a bassist waahahaaahyy????" back and forth discussion.

By the way, if the author is a TBer, please come forward!

[Andysalina5]

I agree with that guy 100 percent! he knows whats up

[taphappy]

Nice!

I sent him an invite, just in case he's not around. Seems to need a support group :)

[Dr. Toboggan]

Wise wise words.

[DrSmaggs]

I love this guy!

[klokker]

Some of it is interesting, some of it's BS if you ask me. If a band doesn't build from the rhythm section up, so what?

Sounds like another big shot. Dime a dozen, not a rare breed at all.

[pnut166]

Originally Posted by klokker

If a band doesn't build from the rhythm section up, so what?

Um, then they have no rhythm ie: suck.

[taphappy]

Big shot? What? Read again.

It's not a matter of building a band from the rhythm section up. If you find your bassist last, whatever. Point is, don't do it as an afterthought. If you have the attitude that we're there to hang out with the rest of the "band" to fill out the "sound" and bring more "beer", we're not gonna be interested in the gig. If your drummer can't at least figure out how to count to four, consistently? We're not gonna be interested in the gig.

This was a response to bands on Phoenix CL complaining about not being able to find a bassist. There are plenty of good players around. The bands looking and failing? There's a reason.

[60bass]

Fellow TB'ers. Glad you liked my CL post

Sometimes somebody just HAS to give the posters on CL a "bassist" reality check from time to time. No wonder 80% of the posters can't find a decent bassist. They just plain don't get where we as bassist's are coming from.

The parts regarding the drummers are IMO dead on. The times I've left bands over the years were mostly due to duummers that just didn't stack up, and with ego trippers running a close second.

Hey, I don't need to play with the greatest drummer out there, but if I get the chance I sure will. Overall I just want a drummer thats solid and lets me do my thing in harmony with him / her to lay down a foundation that makes the group better, and I expect to treated as an equal member of the band because of it. IMO that's not too much to ask.

Honestly, after over 30 + years of on and off playing and half of those years straight road work, I just have no tolerance anymore for playing with a drummer that sucks. Been there, done that too many times over the years while I was out on the road and had to make a living.

Now if a drummer contacts me about playing with them or building a group, I just go over to their place with no gear and tell them to start playing. I'll know within 15 minutes of hearing them if they are any good or not and I'm betting just about any decent bassist can do the same. If they can't lay it down and make me WANT to grab my bass and join in, I'm not going to waste my time. I've been called a few choice names for telling them that, but I don't care. Over the years I've played in some of the worst rat hole bars you can imagine and been called every name in the book at one time or another so their stuff doesn't get to me. LOL

They don't get it, it ain't about ego, it's about a relationship. I have to have a connection with the drummer to make it work and have fun while doing it. I'm sure every bassist feels the same.

C'mon guys / gals admit it! No bassist wants to play with a crappy drummer nor do they want to be treated like "oh, that's just our bass player". So I had to lay it out there.

Keep Low

[taphappy]

Ha! Figured. Good stuff :)

[dogbass]

I'm sorry, but I've no use for Craigslist preachers; just because they play bass and we can identify with their rant don't make it right. It's still a rant better served by a forum (like TB !) That ain't what CL is about. I don't look for professionals in my field on CL and I assume pro musicians feel the same way.

[bareass]

dude the audition thing was dead on!

i've done that so many times. "hey lets hear how u sound... if we're interested and u fit then we're good to go" "hey ur good, i don't think we need to listen to anyone else... ur in!" ...um nope.i'm not playing with u clowns, if you ever get a gig and need a fill in, i'll learn all ur songs in a hour!

[NickInMesa]

Originally Posted by bareass

dude the audition thing was dead on!

i've done that so many times. "hey lets hear how u sound... if we're interested and u fit then we're good to go" "hey ur good, i don't think we need to listen to anyone else... ur in!" ...um nope.i'm not playing with u clowns, if you ever get a gig and need a fill in, i'll learn all ur songs in a hour!

Same here too, I am done with "auditions".

This is a half-ass clownery where I have to learn tunes, sometimes none of them that I know, and in the end it turns out to be a big waste of time.

Either they don't have a real project, or they take forever to make up their mind and after 3 days it's me who write an email telling them to f-off, basically.

I meet people, I jam with them, they know me.

I am done auditioning. I'd rather have a fun jam session and you call me if you want to play again.

I am not a pro myself. I play for fun. Auditioning is not fun. It's a waste of my time.

[taphappy]

Originally Posted by dogbass

I'm sorry, but I've no use for Craigslist preachers; just because they play bass and we can identify with their rant don't make it right. It's still a rant better served by a forum (like TB !) That ain't what CL is about. I don't look for professionals in my field on CL and I assume pro musicians feel the same way.

Eh. IMO, no, don't rant on CL. But if someone DOES rant on CL, and it starts going into a back and forth, a decisive response can be quite functional, and educational. In this case, I agree with it.

I'll also agree that pro musicians/gigs are usually found by word of mouth. I usually don't bother with places like CL, but out here is an odd scene because it's so spread out. Original bands use it, we have a lot of transplants, and you can sometimes (rarely, but hey) find a real gem that you wouldn't have otherwise.

My last originals band was highly respected in the local scene when it started out, but so non-standard that we had an impossibly hard time finding a singer that could fit in to our sound, even with feelers out everywhere. So we ended up posting in every dark corner we could find. Eventually found our guy this way, who was an unreal talent, but an unknown without any ties to the local scene.

[60bass]

Originally Posted by klokker

Some of it is interesting, some of it's BS if you ask me. If a band doesn't build from the rhythm section up, so what?

Honest answer and question. It's just my opinion based on my years and experiences playing. My opinion has been classified as BS from time to time. It's not meant to be fact just a way to possibly help groups posting on CL understand why they can't find a decent bassist.

As to the question of not building from the rhythm section up. Again just my opinion. There's no law set in stone that says you have to do it that way. I just think it works better. I know there are hundreds of players out there who come into an already established group and it works out great. I've done it myself.

However, I just feel your chances of being "just the bass player" are increased if you're responding to an ad on CL that reads like " just need bass to round out our group". I honestly have to wonder why they have a "group" but have no bassist. Hmm..... there must be a reason why?

I just feel that if as a player you already have a drummer that you're tight with and you can both lay down soild groove, then you already have a great foundation that will enable you to post up an ad offering the thing that every group wants most. A good tight rhytnm section. You will have your choice of musicians dying to get in and build something up.

Originally Posted by klokker

Sounds like another big shot. Dime a dozen, not a rare breed at all.

Big shot. Man how I wish that was true. I'd like nothing better than to "have it made". That way I wouldn't have to work my butt off everyday to make ends meet. That would be sweet

Dime a dozen, rare breed? Never claimed to be. I'm just another player who enjoys playing the bass and likes to have fun while doing it.

Keep Low

[faulknersj]

Phoenix are Bass player here. The drummer thing, wow, that is so true brutha. It is truly painful playing with a drummer that was not married to a click track for a while. Great drummers are worth there weight in diamonds imo.

[60bass]

Originally Posted by taphappy

Eh. IMO, no, don't rant on CL. But if someone DOES rant on CL, and it starts going into a back and forth, a decisive response can be quite functional, and educational. In this case, I agree with it.

I'll also agree that pro musicians/gigs are usually found by word of mouth. I usually don't bother with places like CL, but out here is an odd scene because it's so spread out. Original bands use it, we have a lot of transplants, and you can sometimes (rarely, but hey) find a real gem that you wouldn't have otherwise.

My last originals band was highly respected in the local scene when it started out, but so non-standard that we had an impossibly hard time finding a singer that could fit in to our sound, even with feelers out everywhere. So we ended up posting in every dark corner we could find. Eventually found our guy this way, who was an unreal talent, but an unknown without any ties to the local scene.

taphappy is correct. Here in this area CL is a place where on rare occasions you can actually hook up with decent players. I've hooked up with some players for casuals and fill ins with good results. Other than word of mouth there's just not too many places to scout for gigs or musicians, so CL does get used here. The real players are few and far between though.

I'll jump on there from time to time to have a look see for any open mic or open jams where I can maybe have some fun playing some stuff and see if anyone shows up that's a good player and might want to get something going. I rarely post up a rant or advice on CL but there are just so many posts where somebody can't find a bassist and I just felt like I had to comment. Maybe it will help. Who knows, it can't hurt.

It is in the community section on CL so it's kind of like a forum and you do get some rants, flames, and advice posts from time to time.

Keep Low

[Munjibunga]

Some of their requirements I think are reasonable. For example, "must have pro gear and transportation" is almost certainly in there because of the countless knuckleheads who respond with, "well, I don't have an amp right now, and my driver's license is suspended, but I'm really great on bass." If a player doesn't have pro gear and a car, I don't want them to answer my ads. I got every member of my current band (except my brother) off craigslist.

[mech]

If I could add another thing that makes a great drummer, IMHO, is one that can play a worn out song with the feel it requires and deserves every time the song comes up whether the gig is in a dive or coliseum. Means they're a true pro. This is really true for any instrument.

mech

[JohnMCA72]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

Some of their requirements I think are reasonable. For example, "must have pro gear and transportation" is almost certainly in there because of the countless knuckleheads who respond with, "well, I don't have an amp right now, and my driver's license is suspended, but I'm really great on bass." If a player doesn't have pro gear and a car, I don't want them to answer my ads. I got every member of my current band (except my brother) off craigslist.

Or doesn't even own a bass!!! I've heard of that a time or 2, even.

By the way, your sig. reminds me of something I used to see often in another, completely unrelated forum...