Band Frustration.... (VENTING!)

[FuturePrimitive]

I know nobody has ever posted a vent thread like this before but bear with me....

I've been in my band for almost 6 months now. We're on our 3rd drummer, and 2nd lead guitar. Our latest drummer is excellent, a real musician who practices fundamentals and theory in addition to the songs we're supposed to learn, he's also a nice guy. The only issue is he's constantly late to rehearsal, not a big deal since he's usually not the only one. Guitar player #1 is 20yo, has a pretty good voice and fairly good ear. Guitar player #2 is 47, a guitar teacher, and is actually a pretty good guitar player, theory wise. The problem is neither guitar player seem to know the songs we're supposed to be playing. G#2 is plagued with constant "malfunctions" of his equipment and is constantly fiddling with his amp or his *only* pedal and can never seem to get a decent sound. He's either too loud, too quiet, too much or completely song inappropriate distortion, and sometimes has some serious timing issues. He's almost always late (an hour+) to practice as well. And to top it off last night he couldn't seem to keep his guitar in tune. (To be fair he was using his backup Squire that he hadn't played in a while. But why leave your tuner at home? Ever!??!?) He's a good player theory wise but I don't think he's had much, if any, actual band experience. (not that I've had much myself) Neither guitar player can seem to mesh their sound/tone/effects correctly for any particular song.

I only mention their ages because G#1 is a bit naive about things, specifically how "good" we sound and how ready we are to play out. (We're supposed to have our first gig in 5 weeks!!) And frankly, G#2 has been playing long enough to know better, about his equipment, timing, etc.

Last night at "rehearsal" (which regressed quickly into practice) G#2 spent probably 20 minutes trying to figure out how to work his stuff and fix a feedback issue. Finally the other guitar player comes over and turns off the overdrive button on his amp. He spent another 5 minutes tuning his guitar. 5 minutes doesn't seem like a lot but it should take about 20 seconds. Finally I just told him to plug into mine. The worst part was he played an entire song completely out of tune and didn't seem to notice (or G#1).

Our first gig is just under 5 weeks away. We have 2 sets of 14 songs "ready" (according to G#1) but last night we couldn't get through either set without having to relearn starts/endings to most of the songs, and some songs train wrecked so badly we couldn't even get through them. We still have 14 more songs to learn that we haven't even started working on.

We are ****ed.

[Phalex]

This is the stuff that keeps it interesting!! Stick it out and see how the gig goes. I'm often amazed at how well playing out can go after a horrible rehearsal.

[aurian4parker]

kick out G#2

[snyderz]

No problem with a vent. I guess your post just makes me realize how lucky I am. EVERYONE shows up early. We all help each other carry gear and set-up (and tear down). We're all in tune at start time, no amp wanking once set-up, and we can "nail" a new song within 2 practices, usually only one. All nice guys. Sheesh.

[ASH PHIPPS]

1st off, if you have a great drummer and g#1 can sing at least you have a band. they may not be YES or THE WHO but alot of people who aren't musicians will still really enjoy it. what ever you do don't loose them and play the gigs you have booked.
G#2 has gotta go allways late, timing issues, equipment issues, at 47 he should have it together and allready have tons of band experience or made he's not really into it and just trying to tag along either way he has gotta go.
the sooner the better so the 3 of you can start to gel.

[JKT]

Time for real honest talk. But, you might want to lay it out for them something like this:

Guys, I have some concerns about us as a band. It isn't any one person or thing, but a lot of little things that IMO can sink this project and I need your help and input so we can discuss, and hopefully fix it.

"We" are having trouble getting and staying in tune. This is not good. How can we fix it?

Is there a better day we can schedule rehearsal for everyone so we can start sooner and end earlier for a more productive session?

We need a plan for nailing intros and endings. Any thoughts?

These are the things that IMO are holding us back and I for one am really concerned about them.

At the same time you lay it out for them like this, give them, all of you as a band, some compliments. Tell them what you like about them as players or the band as a whole.

If you can change this, 5 weeks is plenty of time to turn this around.

JKT

[Thunderthumbs73]

You and the drummer should keep working together. A good drummer who is serious about his/her craft is worth their weight in gold. And may be almost important as... ...a bass player!!!!.... Ha. But seriously, discuss the problems diplomatically and see if things turn around in the near term. If they do, problem solved. If they don't, then you and the drummer, together, should move on and find other guitarists. I hate to add to your paranoia, but I forsee this gig as possibly be a train wreck, unless the guitar players get it together, immediately. You don't want to finally feel like your ready the night before or the day of the gig. That is a terrible, terrible feeling. Give it a week or two, and see how it goes after "the talk." If no improvement, see if you can negotiate another gig time a bit later than planned. The reason is even if you do the good/right thing by honoring your commitment, and playing this date, if the gig is a disaster, the people who booked you will likely not have you back again to play anyways.

[matskull]

Kick G#2 out, unless you never talked to him about those issues, if you did and he doesn't take it seriously, let him go.

[CincyBassMan]

Originally Posted by JKT

Time for real honest talk. But, you might want to lay it out for them something like this:

Guys, I have some concerns about us as a band. It isn't any one person or thing, but a lot of little things that IMO can sink this project and I need your help and input so we can discuss, and hopefully fix it.

"We" are having trouble getting and staying in tune. This is not good. How can we fix it?

Is there a better day we can schedule rehearsal for everyone so we can start sooner and end earlier for a more productive session?

We need a plan for nailing intros and endings. Any thoughts?

These are the things that IMO are holding us back and I for one am really concerned about them.

At the same time you lay it out for them like this, give them, all of you as a band, some compliments. Tell them what you like about them as players or the band as a whole.

If you can change this, 5 weeks is plenty of time to turn this around.

JKT

+1000000 JKT is a wise, wise man. You should take this advice!!

Russ

[jojo99]

Originally Posted by Thunderthumbs73

You and the drummer should keep working together. A good drummer who is serious about his/her craft is worth their weight in gold.

+1...it may not be in your power to control the entire band, but concentrating on your relationship with the drummer will be the thing that pays off for you in the long run should the rest of the band fall by the wayside, and having a tight rhythm section will go a long way in making up for sloppy guitarists. I'd start dropping hints at rehearsal that there might not be enough time to get both guitars meshing, and see if the second gtr gets it together. Stating it in the whole "WE have a problem" is the diplomatic thing to do in most other situations, but in this case it sounds like #2 gtr is somewhat clueless (you don't want everyone thinking the problem is with someone else, more time wasted). It does kinda sound like the much older #2 gtr might be tagging along to relive his youth, or maybe just to haul out his stuff and play with others (which is NOT the same thing as being in a serious band who intends to play out... has he played out much before? Maybe he is nervous about it and is sabotaging things unconsciously?) and this may sound terrible, but I think there's sort of an unwritten rule that being late is only OK if you are the major talent....of course, NO ONE should be late if they consider themselves professional, but the weak link especially should be there early to sort out their equipment issues. #1 gtr may be a bit naive about things, but enthusiasm is a good thing. If you need to postpone the gig, give them plenty of time to find someone else so you don't get a reputation as unreliable.

[FuturePrimitive]

Originally Posted by JKT

Time for real honest talk. But, you might want to lay it out for them something like this:

snip...

JKT

[Banya]That's gold, Jerry! Gold![/Banya]

Seriously, I'm writing an email to the band right now to address some of the issues but I'm gonna shamelessly plagiarize some of JKTs words as he's obviously a much wiser man than I!


Thanks to everyone.

[JKT]

Originally Posted by CincyBassMan

+1000000 JKT is a wise, wise man. You should take this advice!!

Russ

Aw shucks. But, I have the gray hair to prove it.

[Thunderthumbs73]

I have some grays and yet I still do stupid things ALL the time. I guess I just need more of them. Well, at least I'm not losing it... uh I mean the hair...

[FuturePrimitive]

Originally Posted by ASH PHIPPS

he's not really into it and just trying to tag along

I suppose this could be the case. I honestly think he doesn't have the time. He works full time and teaches guitar on the side. He's also got kids but I can't remember if they're still in the house, I think they're college age.

I have young kids too so I certainly understand finding time to practice can be difficult. But if I couldn't find the time to ever practice aside from band rehearsal I would quit.

Just an FYI, the age range of the band is 20, 27, 35(me), and 47. Pretty diverse so it's not like he latched onto a bunch of young kids or anything.

[jgroh]

I really like what JKT suggested, but as jojo99 said, if you approach it as "WE cant stay in tune or show up on time", when it sounds like G2 is the real issue, then he could think "oh its not me, he didnt mention my name, so its someone else..." and not work on anything at all.

I would start the conversation with a WE and then get specific. Its not easy to call someone out like that but might as well deal with the issues than waste time beating around the bush.

[JKT]

Originally Posted by FuturePrimitive

[Banya]That's gold, Jerry! Gold![/Banya]

Seriously, I'm writing an email to the band right now to address some of the issues but I'm gonna shamelessly plagiarize some of JKTs words as he's obviously a much wiser man than I!


Thanks to everyone.

Good luck with this. Putting a good band together is hard.

JKT

[matskull]

Originally Posted by jgroh

I really like what JKT suggested, but as jojo99 said, if you approach it as "WE cant stay in tune or show up on time", when it sounds like G2 is the real issue, then he could think "oh its not me, he didnt mention my name, so its someone else..." and not work on anything at all.

I would start the conversation with a WE and then get specific. Its not easy to call someone out like that but might as well deal with the issues than waste time beating around the bush.

I used the "WE" technique with my ex drummer and that idiot never understood that "WE" actually him...

[CincyBassMan]

Originally Posted by JKT

Aw shucks. But, I have the gray hair to prove it.

Originally Posted by Thunderthumbs73

I have some grays and yet I still do stupid things ALL the time. I guess I just need more of them. Well, at least I'm not losing it... uh I mean the hair...

We old greying doods have to stick together!

Originally Posted by jojo99

+1...it may not be in your power to control the entire band, but concentrating on your relationship with the drummer will be the thing that pays off for you in the long run should the rest of the band fall by the wayside, and having a tight rhythm section will go a long way in making up for sloppy guitarists. I'd start dropping hints at rehearsal that there might not be enough time to get both guitars meshing, and see if the second gtr gets it together. Stating it in the whole "WE have a problem" is the diplomatic thing to do in most other situations, but in this case it sounds like #2 gtr is somewhat clueless (you don't want everyone thinking the problem is with someone else, more time wasted). It does kinda sound like the much older #2 gtr might be tagging along to relive his youth, or maybe just to haul out his stuff and play with others (which is NOT the same thing as being in a serious band who intends to play out... has he played out much before? Maybe he is nervous about it and is sabotaging things unconsciously?) and this may sound terrible, but I think there's sort of an unwritten rule that being late is only OK if you are the major talent....of course, NO ONE should be late if they consider themselves professional, but the weak link especially should be there early to sort out their equipment issues. #1 gtr may be a bit naive about things, but enthusiasm is a good thing. If you need to postpone the gig, give them plenty of time to find someone else so you don't get a reputation as unreliable.

You bring up points I didn't think about! #2 Gtr is the oldest and teaches guitar, yet his stuff doesn't work and he can't stay in tune OR remember parts?? ***?

I think #2 Gtr maybe the source/solution to the band's problems...

Russ

[Busker]

Originally Posted by snyderz

No problem with a vent. I guess your post just makes me realize how lucky I am. EVERYONE shows up early. We all help each other carry gear and set-up (and tear down). We're all in tune at start time, no amp wanking once set-up, and we can "nail" a new song within 2 practices, usually only one. All nice guys. Sheesh.

Can I borrow your band for a while? This is exactly what I'm looking for.

[JKT]

It is true that you're gonna have those folks that either can't or won't, make the leap and fugure out just who you're referring to with regard to "we"

My main thrust for this tack was to get discussion started in a non-confrontational, non-critical way. I assume that once dialogue is started, if I see that I'm not getting through to my target audience one needs to get more specific. And that too doesn't have to be anymore painful than necessary. In fact it can bolster relationships and tighten a bands personal interactions up:

Hey dude, I notice you seem to be having some trouble staying in tune lately. Is it your axe? 'Cause I know a good set-up guy, brand of tuner, I have an extra tuner,etc. I know you don't wanna be foolin with that on a gig...

Now you've identified a problem without really calling anybody out into the street on it. And you offered to help. And more often than not your help may be wanted (and needed), but not asked for.

JKT