Band Leader Argument

[JoZac21]

I'm in a band, which I truly love. We've been recording a record... a concept album... but our band leader has consistently failed to fully disclose the actual concept of the album to the rest of the band, myself included (and I'm sort of co-producing this thing).

We actually have now gotten into a large argument when he told me he was thinking of splitting up our 1 album into 3 different ones and releasing them under different band names ...

I said that was such a bad idea I'd have to quit if he did that....

In an email, I told him he needs to disclose the concept to the band... and he got pissed at me for using "forceful language".

In the name of diplomacy, I sent him an email for the "harsh" language, but I'm worried this going to wind up being some more bad ideas that the rest of the band members won't be able to discuss before it's too late.

What do I do?

I just want to know the friggin concept.

[IbanezBass69]

I don't think you are asking too much at all. If you guys really are a band, that says to me you are all in this together. And I imagine you would probably write lines that are better suited to the concept if you knew what it was. He is either embarassed by his concept, or he is just trying so hard to be a pretentious @$$ that he forgot what his concept was. Until he tells you what it is, tell him you are assuming he is firing you for not telling you. Or just write bass lines based on the concept of the scene in "The Expendables" when Arnold and Sylvester Stallone have a conversation no one can understand.

[tangentmusic]

Can you tell what the concept is according to the lyrics?
Are there any lyrics to decipher?

[Corey Y]

Not trying to tell you what to do, but if I was in that situation I would quit. The guy sounds like a pretentious flake. You've got to have a certain tolerance for eccentricity and ego when playing music in a group, but there are reasonable limits. If you're a hired gun playing back up for his band that's one thing. If it's a true "band" though personally I can't abide by things like singers not willing to show anyone in the band their lyrics (been there) or telling everyone else what's going to happen with the band instead of collaborating. If you like your experience in the band otherwise and think he's open to reasonable discussion and compromise though, I would certainly pursue it.

[hbarcat]

Is he actually the leader of the band? Did he recruit the rest of you as help for "his" project?

If so, and if he wants to be an egomaniac and keep the details of his project a secret, then your only choice is to either put up with it or quit.

If it started out as a group project and he's simply taken control of the whole thing, then (if it were me) I'd insist on him becoming more of a team player. Or else I'd remove my name from the project, take my already recorded tracks and go home (and maybe take the other band members with me).

[JoZac21]

I know the most basic of the details of the concept album... a simple synopsis.

This seems to be an action vs. words scenario, in that he keeps talking about how "we're a band" but acting as if we're a supporting cast.

[JohnMCA72]

Originally Posted by JoZac21

I know the most basic of the details of the concept album... a simple synopsis.

This seems to be an action vs. words scenario, in that he keeps talking about how "we're a band" but acting as if we're a supporting cast.

Been there. The best case you can expect, if the "project" succeeds, is that you & the rest of the band will get dropped for better players when they can be afforded.

When I get asked to "join" an outfit like this, I charge an hourly rate with a minimum per session. That covers gigs, rehearsals, recording, photo shoots - whatever. I have no illusions of being any kind of stakeholder, or riding the leader's coattails "to the top". Just a hired gun, & "hired" implies "paid".

[JoZac21]

I've asked several times for a contract... and as soon as this scuff (hopefully) blows over, I'm asking again.

[Rusty the Scoob]

From your posts the guy does sound pretentious, but plenty of real geniuses are pretentious pricks. For whatever reason he feels it's important to keep the concept to himself for now... you can either go with it or quit the band... might as well go with it.

Put it this way - do you think Keith Moon and the Ox gave a crap if Pete Townsend kept the album concepts to himself while he was writing? I'd bet not.

I do agree that releasing 3 albums under 3 band names is stupid... it's hard enough to get one band noticed. Assuming you're inspired by the music and want to keep playing it, I'd rein him in on the 3 albums but give in on the concept secrecy.

[rtslinger]

I would finish the project and then when he wants to take to the road I would walk away cut him down a few pegs. Does this jerk sound like someone you want to be stuck on a tour bus with? And I agree with JOHNMCA72 with the drop you for better players later on look what happen to MCR growing up in NJ these guys were the best of friends they used to practice at one of the members houses two doors down from me. What happens they toss their drummer after all of that and why because someone else did not think he was good enough! Good enough to take the ride upper the success ladder but not to continue ugly thing they did to him.

[ChrisB2]

Originally Posted by JoZac21

he keeps talking about how "we're a band" but acting as if we're a supporting cast.

He's behaving like a guy who keeps telling his woman, "Yeah, we'll get married," while he continues to use her for his wants without proper regard for hers.

In both cases it demonstrates disdain for the one used, and will continue for as long as it's allowed...

Realizing this would force me, out of self-respect, to give him an ultimatum.

Good luck.

[Bassdirty]

Originally Posted by Rusty the Scoob

...might as well go with it....

I do agree that releasing 3 albums under 3 band names is stupid... it's hard enough to get one band noticed. Assuming you're inspired by the music and want to keep playing it, I'd rein him in on the 3 albums but give in on the concept secrecy.

+1

You should point the guy to this forum..Maybe he'd see the "voice of reason".


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[Joe Nerve]

Originally Posted by JoZac21

This seems to be an action vs. words scenario, in that he keeps talking about how "we're a band" but acting as if we're a supporting cast.

Also been there, done that. Last month in fact. "We're a band," are empty words just to keep you hanging around. Words mean nothing, actions mean everything. In my recent experience, after written agreements (which wound up meaning crap), and the recording of the new CD, the guy who swore we were a band decided he was going to name the project after himself. But we were still "A Band." He also decided he was going to start calling ALL the shots, which included 3 rehearsals a week. When the drummer and I decided this wasn't a band anymore and asked for money, he said he'll find some kids to do it for free.

Starting to realize there are very few musical situations I feel comfortable in. Paying gigs are one. Gigs where I'm the writer or a cowriter and everything is getting copyrighted with my name on it are the other. Any other gig is a huge gamble and if it ever goes anywhere unfortunately you're at the mercy of whoever's holding the rights to the music. You can put years and years of work into something, one big (or small) misunderstanding and someone can be easily hired to learn your bass parts for $50 a gig. Musicians really need to come up with some kind of contract to prevent that. I've discussed it here, but to no avail.

All that being said, what's your pals reason for NOT telling you? Is he being pretentious, afraid it's going to get stolen if it gets out? Is he not sure himself what his concept is? Is he afraid you guys are going think he's nuts, hate the idea, and walk on him? Are you guys at least communicating?

[jaywa]

The band leader is going to chide you for your choice of language in an e-mail? Seriously?

What a tool.

It's time to bail. You can do better.

[pklima]

Originally Posted by Joe Nerve

Is he not sure himself what his concept is?

Haha, that was my first suspicion.

As for the "we're a band" crap, no. If anybody who writes the music in an originals project tells me that "we're a band", I will tell them that "no, I just work here". I've done it and not gotten fired for it (but I've also yelled at my bosses in several real jobs and never gotten fired for it, either - I'm good at getting away with being inappropriate, I guess). I can do the "we're a band" thing with covers, even covers I don't like much, but never with originals.

[dj150888]

I play for a set fee or I play with at least an even share of creative control and a percentage. I don't and won't ever do anything else. I don't understand why anyone would be willing to do anything else.

[jaywa]

And who the eff does "concept albums" anymore, anyway?

Sounds to me like a guy who needs to get over himself and join the 21st Century.

[TBrett]

Agreed that the idea of a "concept album" seems kinda misplaced these days, but hey, if that's what the guy is into, why not? (Although the idea of releasing albums under different band names is bizarre.) What's not cool is treating the musicians who are going to record this concept album like second-class citizens. Is he able to play all of the instruments himself? I'm guessing not. Therefore, he needs you guys. So why the heck wouldn't he want to share his vision with you, pay you all appropriately or at least give you a share of the rights, so that he can get the best possible performance from each of you? Even if this guy turns out to be some kind of genius, he's not going to achieve his goals if he doesn't start treating his musicians with respect. Therefore, what, really, is the future for this project?

[joehaven]

When you say "sort of co-producing" do you mean sorta funding?

[rosstanium]

Time to move on. He probably couldn't do it without you guys. Until you show some pride you're going to continue to feed his.