Band May be Splitting up because..

[::Saint::]

The guy who started it, our main songwriter, and the Maverick to my Goose, is in a slump.

It started out about a year ago - I joined up with a guy who is now a good friend of mine to start this band. He had been writing songs for a long time, but needed some musicians to make it happen. I liked the songs, and I thought he was a good guy, so I joined up with him, and we slogged away just the two of us for a few months (he sings, plays guitar, piano, etc, and the rub of it is that he actually is a better technical bassist than I am) learning the songs, etc. We needed a drummer, so I found us a drummer. We needed a jam space, so I found us a jam space.

Throughout the entire process I have been acting as a de facto manager/treasurer/promoter. It's always me getting people organized to rehearse, or write, or record or whatever it is we are doing. If I don't organize it, it generally doesn't happen. When we finally decided we were ready to get out there and start playing shows, of course it was natural for me to act as our promoter as well, which I have done.

Thanks to my footwork, we have played 2 shows and have a bunch more lined up, AND we have people getting in touch with me to offer us shows to play. And this is after we've only really been public for a couple of months. Our name is just STARTING to get onto the radar of the local bands, venues, promoters, etc, because of the work I've been doing.

For me it has been very rewarding - I love the material and I enjoy playing the songs. I have scored us a bunch of good shows to play over the next couple of months - not TOO many, but enough that we should have time to write and develop new songs in between while also getting out name out there.

When I started doing all of this the singer/songwriter was really gung-ho and excited, and suddenly he's in this slump and says he doesn't see the band going anywhere because he doesn't think people will get into the songs as they aren't "poppy" enough. Suddenly he wants to put this band on hold in order for him to make it big writing pop songs and maybe putting together some Avril Lavigne type of band all for the sake of making money and getting signed to a label.

Personally I think he's deluded if he thinks he has a snow-ball's chance in hell of making it big that way, not because he can't write good songs, but because he is one in a million people who are probably doing the same thing, but he doesn't see it that way. And now he likely wants me to cancel all of the shows I've booked, which makes the band look bad, not that that matters much if we end up splitting up, but it also makes me look like an arsehole to these people that I've communicated and committed to shows with.

His solution is to cancel the shows and say that "We have to cancel because our lead singer refuses to play." We're going to play the one show coming up next week, so we're going to practice for that tonight. I suggested we at least keep our current committments.. play three frickin shows and then see where we are at, but he doesn't even want to do that. He thinks it's okay to flake out because "bands flake out at the last minute all the time".

So frustrated...

[sublime0bass]

Suddenly he wants to put this band on hold in order for him to make it big writing pop songs and maybe putting together some Avril Lavigne type of band all for the sake of making money and getting signed to a label.

music is about making music, and expressing yourself, not money. and prepackaged pop music (of any genre) is made for the exact opposite purpose of music. and while i understand that cars dont run on expression and a good original lick wont feed you, if you are doing music for any other reason than enjoying music and performing, then you may want to find a new guit guy.

people who are highly technically proficient at music tend to have skewed views on the actual meaning of music

"bands flake out at the last minute all the time".

people steal stuff and kill people all the time. people stop showing up to work (of any kind) all the time. does that make it right?

sounds like he's the only flake

[Scutterflux]

Sounds to me like he's scared.

He should at least give it a decent try at all the commited shows, and guage the audiences reaction. Before he decides not enough people will like it.

[::Saint::]

I can understand wanting to write songs that people will like, and making it ones goal to make a living making music.. get big, get famous, whatever. I'd love for those things to happen, and I've worked at this band as though we were always on the verge of big success, but I'm realistic enough to know that the odds are against us. He has always wanted to write songs that are "catchy", but why he suddenly wants to basically disband just doesn't make sense to me.

Since I've known him though, he has always been the kind of person who experiences frequent lulls and slumps in enthusiasm wherein he becomes almost what I would described as "lethargic" musically. Just doesn't want to get organized or do anything.. rehearse, etc. And then something happens and he's back to full-steam again.

Like I said.. frustrating..

[::Saint::]

Originally Posted by Scutterflux

Sounds to me like he's scared.

He should at least give it a decent try at all the commited shows, and guage the audiences reaction. Before he decides not enough people will like it.

You know I'm not even sure if it would make any difference to his current mood even if these shows were a huge success. He seems intent on attracting a very particular audience.. namely teenaged girls, because according to him they are the ones who are buying music these days. This is his reasoning behind wanting to write Avril Lavigne style pop songs.

[mlove]

I played in a band with a flaky song writer like that. I quit, problem solved. It did however take me 6 years to have my fill of his foolishness.

[Blueszilla]

Originally Posted by ::Saint::

He thinks it's okay to flake out because "bands flake out at the last minute all the time".

Another sign he's not in touch with reality. In today's band market, with so many fighting for the limited spots to play, I don't see a lot of 'flaking out'. Believe me, some of the venue owners/managers don't forget a face, especially one attached to someone who 'flaked'(cancelled a gig, won't play there again, ha!). Seems as if there is another underlying reason, but whatever. I agree that if he doesn't want to commit to a long term project, he should do the scheduled bookings and then spaz out. To not just do them means he goes from unprofessional to loser. Better to learn his true feelings now, than to have him flake on you when you have a full gig schedule.

Good luck.

[lpdeluxe]

+1

We have all dealt, at one time or another, with writers or artists or musicians or whatever who are really good at what they do, but are very unsophisticated when it comes to getting it in front of an audience.

You have gotten this guy to the point where his fantasies are becoming reality, and now he's scared and looking for a way out before his fantasies come crashing down.

Maybe you can hold his hand some more. It sounds like you're fairly capable...does he just need more reassurance?

The hell of it is, if he's good, it'll be worth the trouble.

[::Saint::]

And honestly, I am willing to do that. He is a very good song-writer, and when he is feeling good about things he is very motivated. I basically said to him when he told me all of this that he should try to keep in mind that having a band is like being in a relationship in that the way you feel about things is ALWAYS going to be cyclical - there will be up times and there will be down times, and making big decisions based on either of these periods in the cycle is almost always a terrible idea, because its guaranteed you'll feel differently in a day or a week or even a month.

I really hope I can at least talk him into going forward with the shows we already have booked - if they do well and we get a good response it might be what he needs to pull him out of this slump and bring him back to reality. And hell.. if that doesn't work, and even after a couple of months he still feels the same way then we can go our seperate ways, and more power to him for making a decision, but at this point it just seems very premature and whimsical.

And like I said.. it makes me look like an A-hole to any of the many promoted, venues, and other bands I've been working to establish relationships with these last couple of months.

[invader3k]

Tell him bluntly that he is going to be hurting YOUR reputation if he cancels, and you don't appreciate it. I would make it simple that you expect him to go through with the three shows you already committed to, and that if he can't, you're going to be finding a replacement and gigging with the same material.

Honestly, though, he just sounds like a whiny flake, and you'll probably be better off without him in the long run.

[cnltb]

+1!!!

[::Saint::]

Originally Posted by invader3k

Tell him bluntly that he is going to be hurting YOUR reputation if he cancels, and you don't appreciate it. I would make it simple that you expect him to go through with the three shows you already committed to, and that if he can't, you're going to be finding a replacement and gigging with the same material.

Honestly, though, he just sounds like a whiny flake, and you'll probably be better off without him in the long run.

Unfortunately this wouldn't fly as all the songs are his and without him there wouldn't really be a band. I'm not interested in stealing his songs and whatever anyway, I just want to have a band that works!

Anyway, we had a rehearsal last night and we all agreed to go ahead with the shows we have booked and then hole up in the studio and do some writing and recording for awhile. He actually told me he was sorry for not expressing his appreciation for all the work I've been doing and for taking the initiative to make connections and get things going for us, and he also apologized "for being a dick lately".

He basically said he's been feeling really down about things and worried that people aren't going to like the songs, and I guess he has been writing a lot of songs lately that don't necessarily fit our usual style (poppier, etc), to which I replied that I didn't at all mind adding those songs to our repertoire - this is our band, and his songs, and if he wants to add a different style and sound to the mix there is no reason why we can't do that. That seemed to make him feel better about it anyway.

[TheRam]

It seems that most bassists have the default position of being the more composed person in the band. I perform the exact same role in my band.

Normally the main composer of any band tends to be very emotional about their material so you've done the right thing by talking to him and cutting him some slack. I'm not saying what he did was right but given the nature of your band, you acted wisely.

Taking things step by step is a good way to handle the pressure.

[::Saint::]

Agreed .. I am definately the most composed person in the band I would say.. I'm also the oldest (not by much) and also the only one who is married, etc, etc.. I'm sure many of the life lessons I have gained because of these things are probably expressed through the band as well. Hell, I'm even opening up a bank account in the band's name with which we can write cheques for rent and what-not (an idea I came up with after the jam space manager cashed 2 months worth - $400 - of rental cheques at the same time, 2 months late!) .. and also where we can store all of our "loot" with which to pay for expenses, etc, and maybe save for some recording time in a real studio hehe.

Speaking of which - there's a link to our myspace in my signature if anyone wants to check us out and add us to their friend list

[lpdeluxe]

Great. Don't let go.

Maybe this guy is manic-depressive...not that it does you a lot of good to know that, I guess. I've babysat many musicians and artists in my day, including my ex.

She has a BFA from Tufts, but wouldn't let anyone see her paintings. I convinced her to let me hang some of them in the large office I worked in, in Houston, and that kind of burst the dam. God bless her, she now works in a gallery downtown, organizes shows, and makes enough from her paintings to pay the rent on her space.

My former stepson (not that our relationship ended with the divorce) is a musician, and had severe stage fright. He lived in Georgia, and would come to visit every few months...so when he did, I would set up a gig for us. Now he performs 3 or 4 nights a week.

Good luck.

[MazeMouse]

Indeed usually the best way of getting people out of their comfort zone is "pressing" them out. Most of the time they suddenly "break free" and do what they love instead of holing up.

[KeithPas]

I would tell this tool to stop acting like a damn baby. I would also be primed to put the shoes to this mutt for wasting so much of my time.

[Geddyfleaharris]

One thing I found disturbing reading your posts was the phrase "all the songs are his". Did he write all the parts to the songs i.e. leads, bass runs, drum fills etc etc? If he did then he is indeed talented. If not then, IMO, they are the band's songs. From my experience not too many songs ever end up performed EXACTLY in the vision of the originator. That was one of the first things our band agreed upon - the songs belong to the band as a collective, not the individual. We all contribute our parts and ideas to bring the songs alive.

[lpdeluxe]

Sorry, but if he wrote the melody and the words, he owns all the parts subject to copyright.

[::Saint::]

Most of the songs in our current repertoire he did write the majority of the different parts (and recorded them) .. we aren't playing them exactly as they were originally written, but pretty close. He IS very talented. Lately we have been writing together, but the melodies and most of the words are his.