Band Meeting - Lowered the Boom

[mellowinman]

OK, a some things that are assumed here:

1. I would only suggest songs I can actually sing, and I trust the other singers in the band to do the same
2. I would only suggest songs we can actually pull off, with the talent and instrumentation we have
3. I would only suggest songs that I believe could potentially go over, keeping in mind that in the past, I have been told songs "won't go over," only to find that those songs did, in fact go over
4. This is a band where three of us have been playing together for over four years
5. I have never told anyone we couldn't play a song; I've let them decide for themselves that a song wasn't working
6. I sing lead about half the time, and yet have the least input into the set list

In short, I'm saying that a band who knows and trusts each other shouldn't have a situation where a person says, "hey, let's play a song," and the other band members argue about it. If you're a professional, you can play anything.

And until the band has really put something of themselves into developing chemistry on a song, there is no way to know for sure how good it will be.

[Downunderwonder]

You want to discuss it and then tell us it works for you because you're so pro you never make a bad choice and if your buddies do it doesn't matter because it only ( assumption ) took you half an hour to get it presentable.

It can take me half a day to figure out some tunes and still not have it down. Who's making making bad assumptions?

Carry on doing what you do, it's obviously working for you.

[phatbass]

My approach has always been that if someone REALLY hates a song we won't do it, but the guys I play with tend to have enough brains to realise that Mustang Sally pays the rent...

[kjpollo]

Originally Posted by mellowinman

OK, a some things that are assumed here:

1. I would only suggest songs I can actually sing, and I trust the other singers in the band to do the same
2. I would only suggest songs we can actually pull off, with the talent and instrumentation we have
3. I would only suggest songs that I believe could potentially go over, keeping in mind that in the past, I have been told songs "won't go over," only to find that those songs did, in fact go over
4. This is a band where three of us have been playing together for over four years
5. I have never told anyone we couldn't play a song; I've let them decide for themselves that a song wasn't working
6. I sing lead about half the time, and yet have the least input into the set list

In short, I'm saying that a band who knows and trusts each other shouldn't have a situation where a person says, "hey, let's play a song," and the other band members argue about it. If you're a professional, you can play anything.

And until the band has really put something of themselves into developing chemistry on a song, there is no way to know for sure how good it will be.

In regard to #3 above- have you EVER been wrong about a song? If you have NEVER been wrong about a tune, you should just take over control of the setlist and be done with it.

And like downunderwonder said, not all of us can figure out a tune in 15 minutes-especially if you're really trying to nail the original version of a song. I can usually get the general gist of a song in a reasonable amount of time, but sometimes there's a part that just doesnt go where you;d expect it or it's very hard to hear in the recording.
Not all of us are gifted with terrific musical ears or tons of practice time. I have a mediocre ear at best so sometimes parts of songs give me incredible issues. Then when you consider the limits on my practice time, hopefully you can see where some songs have to be discarded. In my last band the guitarist wanted to do a Steely Dan tune and no matter what we did, between the drummer and I, it just wasnt happening. So that one went out the window. We also had a limited veto power. I had a couple of suggestions that were declined and after one lead singer left us, we quickly blew out 2 tunes that were 'his'. Not because of any bad connotations on him, but because we just didnt like them. We were only doing them because they suited his voice VERY well.

[mellowinman]

Originally Posted by kjpollo

In regard to #3 above- have you EVER been wrong about a song? If you have NEVER been wrong about a tune, you should just take over control of the setlist and be done with it.

And like downunderwonder said, not all of us can figure out a tune in 15 minutes-especially if you're really trying to nail the original version of a song. I can usually get the general gist of a song in a reasonable amount of time, but sometimes there's a part that just doesnt go where you;d expect it or it's very hard to hear in the recording.
Not all of us are gifted with terrific musical ears or tons of practice time. I have a mediocre ear at best so sometimes parts of songs give me incredible issues. Then when you consider the limits on my practice time, hopefully you can see where some songs have to be discarded. In my last band the guitarist wanted to do a Steely Dan tune and no matter what we did, between the drummer and I, it just wasnt happening. So that one went out the window. We also had a limited veto power. I had a couple of suggestions that were declined and after one lead singer left us, we quickly blew out 2 tunes that were 'his'. Not because of any bad connotations on him, but because we just didnt like them. We were only doing them because they suited his voice VERY well.

Of COURSE I have been wrong about a song. As in, we played it out a few times, and it didn't seem to be going over that well.

As in, I thought I could sing it, but it turns out I couldn't? NO. I wouldn't try to do a song I couldn't do. You know, I CAN sing it with the original recording to find out if its for me, without involving the band.

As for the other points, everyone in my band is a pretty good musician, and can learn pretty much anything. They didn't want to put in the effort for "Whipping Post," and I lost that battle.

I play bass guitar. So if I want to learn a song, I learn the bass line, even if I'm not planning to play on it, and then I can teach the other bass player the bass part, and she doesn't have to spend a bunch of time figuring it out.

Nobody does that for me!

Right now, the two songs I want to add are from Aerosmith's "Get Your Wings" album. I want to learn SOS (Too Bad,) and Seasons of Wither. Listen to those songs.

How hard are they?

I mean, seriously?

[James Judson]

Originally Posted by James Judson

I come with a couple rules as well. At rehearsal we play each others songs, no questions asked. On stage we play what "they" want, no questions asked. Any one that comes with a "no play list" simply doesn't get invited back to rehearsal. If anyone can not get behind a song that they hate their simply not professional musicians.

Another rule is "no one has the right to waste anothers time". This includes;
a.) We do not play a song over and over cuz some one doesn't "know" it.
b.) We do not sit around listening to music cuz some one doesn't "know" it.
c.) We do not give/get music lessons cuz some one doesn't "know" it.
d.) We show up on time.
e.) The only acceptable excuse is "I was getting laid" (no explaination, no details please). Anything else is just plain lame.

Now if you hate my song list or I hate your song list, we are not compatable so we must part and go our separate ways. For that one exception we can show some respect and play it once. Thats not much "wasted" time on a song you hate. Opinions change quickly on a song you hate when a gorgeous blond bounces her gorgeous body on your side of the stage.

Stormy Monday, Suzie Q, Brickhouse, Mustang Sally, Brown Eyed Girl, are just a few that I used to hate til a gorgeous blond convinced me otherwise. Don't want them on the "set list" but its a good idea to have them in our back pocket just in case that blond shows up.

Rules should absolutely be guide lines but if you are wasting my time I will not hang around long. If you won't play what I like I won't hang around long. If this is too serious I won't hang around long. If the guys won't go home and practice I won't hang around long. If you don't have respect for me, guess what?

Now if you look at my rules a.) thru e.) they are designed to keep rehearsal "FUN". In a 2 hour rehearsal we can moe down 17 to 20 songs and know the status on all 20 songs. Good info to have when a gig comes up. Now if we follow my "rules" and we rehearse twice a week how long does it take to build a band? Less than a month!!! Do the math. 100+ songs, half are presentable, put those into sets and start booking. The rest will come up to speed in between gigs.

Now the only rule I will not bend on is: "THE INSTANT WE RECOGNIZE THAT WE DISAGREE, DROP IT AND MOVE ON". This is not an easy rule to adhere to cuz it doesn't feel good to walk away from an unresolved issue. But my experience is when we go home and think about it, next week we come back and implement the best of the two options with no "waste" of time, no broken egos, its as if we spent an hour hashing it out at rehearsal.

Myths:
1.) Only play music in "your" genre. You do want to build your box, ie. Country, Jazz, Rock etc. But you'll get more fans if you step out of that box once in a while. I never got so many complements playing Mettallica at a Country show.
2.) Only play music your vocalists can sing. This is just barely a myth and a good one to implement at a gig. But fact is your team mates grow and change over time. And a little practice can improve your singing a lot.
3.) We can not play that song cuz we don't have a sax, or keyboard, or horn section, or 60 piece orchestra. Get creative guys. A guitar or bass can play those orchestrated parts.
3.) Never play a song a team mate "vetos". This leads to lots of discussion and less rehearsal. See my wasting time guideline.

Put the gorgeous blond in the band? This ones up to you but I don't want to put up with the extra drama that females bring. Female drama is not better or worse but it is different and my experience is "if you want to double the drama in a band just hire a girl". Besides if shes shaking her thang on the dance floor it makes me glad I showed up.

Now I just covered some rehearsal issues. Stage and studio are different things.

YMMV

[MarkMgibson]

Originally Posted by shastaband

I played with the same guys for fourteen years straight back in the golden age of live music in the 1970s-1980s (6 nights-a-week, 5 set-a-night gigs in hotels and clubs). We did it like the UN Security Council-any one person could veto a song if he really didn't like it. No point trying to perform a song unless everyone could get behind it with enthusiasm. It meant we missed out on a few killer songs, but nobody had to play a song they absolutely hated.

That's the way we do things as well. If someone really hates a song, then it's out. I think that's a good system.

[ChrisB2]

I think what turns me off about this thread is the title (lowered the boom on my band...? really?) and the tone set by the mention of "rules," "no discussion" and "we will do this" and "we won't do that." Somewhat of a Napoleon flavor to the taste of the thread... yuck. I wouldn't like being in a band where there have been rules established forbidding discussion and opinions, but if you have that kind of power and control over your bandmates and that's the way you want it, I have no problem... go for it.

Personally, I prefer the "anyone can veto" situation, as there are songs I simply do not want to play. I know some have said "that's not professional" but guess what? I'm not a professional musician; I do this for fun and not a career, so okay, I have unprofessional standards, that's normal for a non-professional.

But to more specifically address a point in your "rule," IMO your drummer is getting shafted, as he is required to break the rule and discuss his song with potential singers. Anyone who doesn't sing in your band is getting shafted under this "rule." If you want to be fair the rule should be everyone plays everyone's songs, no discussion, no opinions, and the singer who best sings the drummer's demanded song sings it. No discussion, remember?

Originally Posted by mellowinman

Howzabout this for a rule?

....

What do you think about that?

Hope you don't mind me complying with your request.

Merry Christmas!!

[Phalex]

Originally Posted by AltGrendel

My only issue would be the "no discussion" clause. I can see that bringing out a passive/aggressive response in some people, depending on maturity level.

Everyone in any band will have strengths and weaknesses.

Ideally, you pick songs that play to the strengths of the band members and discard those that exploit their weaknesses.

[RustyAxe]

I sing whatever I want to sing, and allow others to do the same. In one project (five piece country band) I often play songs I don't care for. What I think doesn't really matter and I keep my thoughts to myself ... the other guys like them, the audience likes 'em and dances to 'em, so I play them. I get paid the same whether I like the songs or not.

I've been in bands when it was said "if any one of us doesn't want to do a song, we don't do it". That doesn't work ... most often you end up catering to the least common denominator, and you don't play anything harder than the weakest link thinks he/she can handle.

[BobaFret]

Originally Posted by James Judson

Another rule is "no one has the right to waste anothers time". This includes;
a.) We do not play a song over and over cuz some one doesn't "know" it.
b.) We do not sit around listening to music cuz some one doesn't "know" it.
c.) We do not give/get music lessons cuz some one doesn't "know" it.

could you talk to the horn section I work with?

[jive1]

Originally Posted by BobaFret

could you talk to the horn section I work with?

I hear ya. For some reason, horn players seem to have a different mentality. For most, their paradigm is reading music, so it really helps to have charts.

[Raymeous]

Originally Posted by James Judson

I come with a couple rules as well. At rehearsal we play each others songs, no questions asked. On stage we play what "they" want, no questions asked. Any one that comes with a "no play list" simply doesn't get invited back to rehearsal. If anyone can not get behind a song that they hate their simply not professional musicians.

Another rule is "no one has the right to waste anothers time". This includes;
a.) We do not play a song over and over cuz some one doesn't "know" it.
b.) We do not sit around listening to music cuz some one doesn't "know" it.
c.) We do not give/get music lessons cuz some one doesn't "know" it.
d.) We show up on time.
e.) The only acceptable excuse is "I was getting laid" (no explaination, no details please). Anything else is just plain lame.

Now if you hate my song list or I hate your song list, we are not compatable so we must part and go our separate ways. For that one exception we can show some respect and play it once. Thats not much "wasted" time on a song you hate. Opinions change quickly on a song you hate when a gorgeous blond bounces her gorgeous body on your side of the stage.

Stormy Monday, Suzie Q, Brickhouse, Mustang Sally, Brown Eyed Girl, are just a few that I used to hate til a gorgeous blond convinced me otherwise. Don't want them on the "set list" but its a good idea to have them in our back pocket just in case that blond shows up.

Sounds reasonable to me! I absolutlely despise Stormy Monday and Brown Eyed Girl with a homicidal fanaticism. That being said, if a hot "Brown Eyed Girl" wants to get up and dance on the stage next to me, I will play those songs on any Stormy Monday she wants me to. Just sayin'.... I'm easy.

[AltGrendel]

Originally Posted by Phalex

Everyone in any band will have strengths and weaknesses.

Ideally, you pick songs that play to the strengths of the band members and discard those that exploit their weaknesses.

Granted, but the initial post didn't really explain that the band he was talking about is a 3 piece where all members are on the same page and acting in a professional manner. My only point is that this isn't always the case. Look at the responses. There are a fair number of "I wish I could make this work with my band" posts. And that's what I'm referring to.

It's great if you can make it work, but people will be people with baggage and drama to spare.

[Phalex]

Originally Posted by AltGrendel

Granted, but the initial post didn't really explain that the band he was talking about is a 3 piece where all members are on the same page and acting in a professional manner. My only point is that this isn't always the case. Look at the responses. There are a fair number of "I wish I could make this work with my band" posts. And that's what I'm referring to.

It's great if you can make it work, but people will be people with baggage and drama to spare.

Werd.

[kjpollo]

Originally Posted by mellowinman

Of COURSE I have been wrong about a song. As in, we played it out a few times, and it didn't seem to be going over that well.

As in, I thought I could sing it, but it turns out I couldn't? NO. I wouldn't try to do a song I couldn't do. You know, I CAN sing it with the original recording to find out if its for me, without involving the band.

As for the other points, everyone in my band is a pretty good musician, and can learn pretty much anything. They didn't want to put in the effort for "Whipping Post," and I lost that battle.

I play bass guitar. So if I want to learn a song, I learn the bass line, even if I'm not planning to play on it, and then I can teach the other bass player the bass part, and she doesn't have to spend a bunch of time figuring it out.

Nobody does that for me!

Right now, the two songs I want to add are from Aerosmith's "Get Your Wings" album. I want to learn SOS (Too Bad,) and Seasons of Wither. Listen to those songs.

How hard are they?

I mean, seriously?

LOL- seriously -I KNOW SOS is NOT hard at all. My old band did that one!
We never looked at Seasons of Wither but I'm sure familiar with it and IIRC the bass part is pretty simple. I dont remember if there are any tricky guitar parts and I'm pretty sure that the vocals are relatively restrained and should be do-able for a decent vocalist.

[mellowinman]

Originally Posted by kjpollo

LOL- seriously -I KNOW SOS is NOT hard at all. My old band did that one!
We never looked at Seasons of Wither but I'm sure familiar with it and IIRC the bass part is pretty simple. I dont remember if there are any tricky guitar parts and I'm pretty sure that the vocals are relatively restrained and should be do-able for a decent vocalist.

I have been doing Aerosmith as a standalone "naked" lead singer, with my wife playing bass. Our lead guitar has expressed his desire to have a second guitarist, and my wife is a decent rhythm player, so my new plan is to see if I can take on "SOS," "Train Kept a Rollin'" and "Seasons of Wither" as both bass player AND lead vocalist. That way, she can play rhythm, and we can get that fatter two guitar sound. I will still leave "Ten Inch Record" as a one guitar song, since I need to play harp on it, and I'm not sure we need to make any changes on "Sweet Emotion."

I think the larger question is, "whoah.... FIVE Aerosmith songs; two of them fairly LONG???? What are you; an Aerosmith tribute band...?" but really, the audiences seem to just love any Aerosmith we play, and I like doing little mini-blocks of sections of albums or stringing together some songs by bands.

With Aerosmith, it would be one block early in the night, with SOS, Train and Seasons, and then later in the night, the same bit we already do with Ten Inch, Sweet Emotion and flowing into Blackfoot's "Train, Train." That's already a high point of the night, anyway.

These are all just ideas. I want to try them, and more importantly, get them on videotape, because everybody keeps crying to me about how they "just want to have fun."

Well, I want to have fun, too. And for me, that is fun.

Besides, they blew me off on Whipping Post, and they murder some of my favorite Led Zeppelin jams, just because they don't feel like putting in the time to nail the parts. We have cut a lot of Zeppelin from the show, and I don't see us bringing in any more.

Cut:

The Ocean
Bring it on Home
Dazed and Confused
Babe, I'm Gonna Leave You

Getting less and less frequent:

Whole Lotta Love

All I can say is, Aerosmith's rhythm section is a whole lot easier to do justice to than Zeppelin's.

[Crazyeelboy]

Our band doesn't have a rule, but I do. I will try in good faith to work with any song or idea my bandmates come up with - even if (or especially if) I don't like it at first. We generally don't do covers, but we try to work one or two in if it is something unexpected and which we can do well in our own way. I cannot think of any time where I hated a song and wanted to veto.

[jive1]

My system is to come up with the entire repertoire at the beginning. Repertoire can be the cause of band tension, so I'd rather clear that up and see where the artistic differences are from the get go. It's easier to see if there is someone who doesn't share the overall vision that way. To me, it doesn't matter whether the song list is done by one person or a group, as long as it's done all at once. It's open to change, but I prefer getting at least something in the beginning. The song list is a marketing tool, and it's good for visualizing the theme and direction of the band while creating future goals.

As far as veto power, I give ultimate veto power to the vocalist. If you can't sing it, we're not doing it. The voice is the most limited instrument in the band in terms of range and time, so I'm coming at it from dealing with the weak link. With the players I prefer to work with, it's pretty safe to assume they will be able to play 80-90% of popular covers as long as the vocalist can cover it.

[jive1]

Originally Posted by mellowinman

These are all just ideas. I want to try them, and more importantly, get them on videotape, because everybody keeps crying to me about how they "just want to have fun."

Well, I want to have fun, too. And for me, that is fun.

I still think your band should do Hair of the Dog by Nazareth.