Band Meeting - Lowered the Boom

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by ga_edwards

Very important point there. You've got to put personal feelings aside in set list choice. You're playing for an audience, not yourselves.

I think my bands rule regarding potential songs to learn and gig is everyone has to agree to it. If member of the band don't like a song, or really passionately hate it (like my feelings for the entire Oasis catalogue) then it gets binned at the first hurdle.

Otherwise, we'll try ideas out and busk our way through song ideas to see if they have potential and drop what doesn't.

That makes good sense.

We'll skip a song if someone has a very strong negative reaction to it. For example, we just decided not to do "Mustang Sally" because one band member absolutely refused, even though that song has a proven track record in my area, people still love it and dance to it. I guess if it's not chronic, you have to defer to those feelings once in awhile.

But for the most part, we have an understanding that you do not necessarily have to love a song to be a pro and play it well, with the audience in mind.

We have a long list of songs that are (a) popular, well-known, people know it, sing along, dance, etc. and (b) one of us has actually seen the song go over before, by one of our previous bands, or having been played by another band/DJ and the crowd dug it, and of course (c) our actual physical skill-level ability to do a good job on it. If the song makes two of those three criteria, it qualifies for the "possibilities" list, and we'll actually invest the time and effort to learn it.

But the proof's in the pudding. You still have to nail it in rehearsal and sell it live before it's a keeper.

[malthumb]

Originally Posted by MarkMgibson

You don't hate any songs? Does that mean you'd be happy to do a cover of "Achy Breaky Heart"?

I would totally do that song.......and I'm the guy who started the "Call Me Maybe" thread.

[malthumb]

To the original post.....

I play in a band and at church. At church I have one RULE. I can do that, because I lead the one choir for whom I enforce that rule. For my band, I have one GUIDELINE, that I back up by using my informal veto.

The Rule:
For my church choir, we do NOT perform a song in the sanctuary that has not been done in at least 2 rehearsals. The first to learn it, the second to prove that we've learned it by playing it un-aided (no listening to the CD, iPod, YouTube before attempting it cold).

The Guideline:
For my band (I am NOT the BL) I will raise my veto if the song is not ready for public consumption. I raised it with the afore mentioned "Call Me Maybe" and most recently at a gig where the BL wanted us to do "Superstition". At the most recent rehearsal we agreed to NOT put it on the set list. At some point during the gig we had just finished "Higher Ground" so he called for "Superstition" and then asked me what key we rehearsed it in . I put my foot down. I politely said "we'll add it next gig...what's next". I've played the song in any number of bands, so I have no doubt I could pull it off, but if you are asking me what key it's in, I do not have a lot of confidence that you are sharp on each of the transitions in the song and we had not confirmed the singer had it down (she had cadence / tempo issues in the rehearsals)

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by MarkMgibson

You don't hate any songs? Does that mean you'd be happy to do a cover of "Achy Breaky Heart"?

For what my gigs pay? Absolutely. Do you think that's "worse" than "The Chicken Dance"?


I'm serious... I can't think of a single song I hate. Or a song that I'd balk at playing, I understand who I'm playing for...aka "Not me". I'm not wired to let songs bother me to that degree... it's music.

[two fingers]

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

For what my gigs pay? Absolutely. Do you think that's "worse" than "The Chicken Dance"?


I'm serious... I can't think of a single song I hate. Or a song that I'd balk at playing, I understand who I'm playing for...aka "Not me". I'm not wired to let songs bother me to that degree... it's music.

Good for you! Me too. I made a crapload of money playing dumb songs for $5000 a show. You can keep your cool points playing originals nobody cares about for $75 to split between you.

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by malthumb

To the original post.....

I play in a band and at church. At church I have one RULE. I can do that, because I lead the one choir for whom I enforce that rule. For my band, I have one GUIDELINE, that I back up by using my informal veto.

The Rule:
For my church choir, we do NOT perform a song in the sanctuary that has not been done in at least 2 rehearsals. The first to learn it, the second to prove that we've learned it by playing it un-aided (no listening to the CD, iPod, YouTube before attempting it cold).

The Guideline:
For my band (I am NOT the BL) I will raise my veto if the song is not ready for public consumption. I raised it with the afore mentioned "Call Me Maybe" and most recently at a gig where the BL wanted us to do "Superstition". At the most recent rehearsal we agreed to NOT put it on the set list. At some point during the gig we had just finished "Higher Ground" so he called for "Superstition" and then asked me what key we rehearsed it in . I put my foot down. I politely said "we'll add it next gig...what's next". I've played the song in any number of bands, so I have no doubt I could pull it off, but if you are asking me what key it's in, I do not have a lot of confidence that you are sharp on each of the transitions in the song and we had not confirmed the singer had it down (she had cadence / tempo issues in the rehearsals)

On the key thing, I'm sure you know the people you're dealing with so I'd guess that's a fair call. OTOH I ask what key a band is doing Superstition in because people do it in so many keys it makes sense to make sure everyone is on the same page. IME that doesn't require a rehearsal... it simply requires a key.

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by two fingers

Good for you! Me too. I made a crapload of money playing dumb songs for $5000 a show. You can keep your cool points playing originals nobody cares about for $75 to split between you.

The refusal to play particular songs over personal reasons baffles me.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

The refusal to play particular songs over personal reasons baffles me.

I know a really hot rock guitarist that will only play music he likes.

Guess where he's been gigging for the last 2 years?

Your right, Madison Square Bedroom.

Blue

[MarkMgibson]

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

For what my gigs pay? Absolutely. Do you think that's "worse" than "The Chicken Dance"?


I'm serious... I can't think of a single song I hate. Or a song that I'd balk at playing, I understand who I'm playing for...aka "Not me". I'm not wired to let songs bother me to that degree... it's music.

If you don't hate any songs, then it's not a problem, but that's not the case for most people.

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by MarkMgibson

If you don't hate any songs, then it's not a problem, but that's not the case for most people.

That's because most people can't see the forest for the trees. Not caring for a song is one thing... hating a song is childish IMO. It's just a song

[MarkMgibson]

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

That's because most people can't see the forest for the trees. Not caring for a song is one thing... hating a song is childish IMO. It's just a song

Then I reckon every musician I know is "childish", and every music fan for that matter. Let's face it, there's millions of songs to choose from, so why play ones you can't stand?

[JohnMCA72]

Originally Posted by mellowinman

I would like someone to define "danceable" for me.

That word is really starting to piss me off.

It seems to be a wee bit subjective.

Your audience will let you know (or not).

Your question reminds me of an old baseball story: A young pitcher was facing the legendary Rogers Hornsby at the plate. The youngster hurls his first pitch, which Hornsby takes for ball one. Again, ball two. After the third pitch, for ball three, the young pitcher glares at the home plate umpire and gestures as if to ask what he has to do to get a strike call. The ump says, "Young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know!"

[jungleheat]

These rules are kind of silly. No discussion? Seriously? So anyone can just shout out whatever crazy, random song they have a whim to do, and everyone else just has to learn it no matter what? Recipe for disaster right there. Sure, if everyone in your band has impeccable taste and can play anything (extremely rare for both of those to be true), it could work, but otherwise no.

I think veto power is a great thing. If someone hates a song, there's usually a good reason. There are a LOT of crappy songs out there, and it doesn't make you more "professional" even if you play exclusively songs that you hate, maybe UNLESS that is the ONLY way you can make money. But typically for any song you hate, there will be 10 that you will either like or not mind that will go over just as well, so why not play THOSE? If you hate all the songs your band plays, you should probably find a new band. It's like sleeping with a chick that you think is ugly just to be getting some. It's lame and desperate.

People should THINK about the song choices they suggest. If you play in a top 40 cover band, you shouldn't be bringing up random off the wall stuff UNLESS you have a vision for it and think you can sell it to your band mates.

There are SOOOOOO may songs out there. They should be chosen based on...

Do they fit the style of the band (or can they be adapted to fit)?

Do the people in the band LIKE the song?

Can the band PLAY the song well?

Is it a GREAT song?

Is it a POPULAR song?

Will the AUDIENCE like the song and respond favorably?

Will playing the song increase the odds of a better payout?

Is the song not too overplayed by every other band?

The more of those criteria a song meets, the stronger the argument for it to be played, and vice versa. And obviously discussion will generally aid in figuring that out.

[mellowinman]

Originally Posted by jungleheat

These rules are kind of silly. No discussion? Seriously? So anyone can just shout out whatever crazy, random song they have a whim to do, and everyone else just has to learn it no matter what? Recipe for disaster right there. Sure, if everyone in your band has impeccable taste and can play anything (extremely rare for both of those to be true), it could work, but otherwise no.

I think veto power is a great thing. If someone hates a song, there's usually a good reason. There are a LOT of crappy songs out there, and it doesn't make you more "professional" even if you play exclusively songs that you hate, maybe UNLESS that is the ONLY way you can make money. But typically for any song you hate, there will be 10 that you will either like or not mind that will go over just as well, so why not play THOSE? If you hate all the songs your band plays, you should probably find a new band. It's like sleeping with a chick that you think is ugly just to be getting some. It's lame and desperate.

People should THINK about the song choices they suggest. If you play in a top 40 cover band, you shouldn't be bringing up random off the wall stuff UNLESS you have a vision for it and think you can sell it to your band mates.

There are SOOOOOO may songs out there. They should be chosen based on...

Do they fit the style of the band (or can they be adapted to fit)?

Do the people in the band LIKE the song?

Can the band PLAY the song well?

Is it a GREAT song?

Is it a POPULAR song?

Will the AUDIENCE like the song and respond favorably?

Will playing the song increase the odds of a better payout?

Is the song not too overplayed by every other band?

The more of those criteria a song meets, the stronger the argument for it to be played, and vice versa. And obviously discussion will generally aid in figuring that out.

My first gig was in 1979. Do I really need to justify my choice of what I wish to sing?

If you want me to play a song, I will play it. THERE WILL BE NO DISCUSSION.

If we play it out, and audiences aren't digging it, I will have something to say.

Why can't anyone who considers me worth playing music with show me the same respect I show them?

Why would anyone, as you say, "just shout out whatever crazy, random song they have a whim to do?" That would be stupid. I assume that if we are working together, you are not stupid. And if you are NOT assuming that I am not stupid, then I am going to assume you ARE stupid, because why would you work with me if you think I'm stupid?

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by jungleheat

Is the song not too overplayed by every other band?

I love the spirit and logic of your post, except for the above.

There is a short list of songs that every cover bar dance floor band in my area plays. To axe them from the list just because other bands play them would be cutting off our noses to spite our faces.

So we will play "Sweet Home Alabama" and the rest, even though every other band does it too.

Bar owners and patrons expect it, and we like to work regularly.

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by mellowinman

My first gig was in 1979. Do I really need to justify my choice of what I wish to sing?

If you want me to play a song, I will play it. THERE WILL BE NO DISCUSSION.

If we play it out, and audiences aren't digging it, I will have something to say.

Why can't anyone who considers me worth playing music with show me the same respect I show them?

Why would anyone, as you say, "just shout out whatever crazy, random song they have a whim to do?" That would be stupid. I assume that if we are working together, you are not stupid. And if you are NOT assuming that I am not stupid, then I am going to assume you ARE stupid, because why would you work with me if you think I'm stupid?

Having respect for someone does not mean that you must agree with everything they say. Debating someone's song choice doesn't mean you think they are stupid. Wasting time on every song that comes out of every member's mouth does seem a bit stupid, however......but that's just me.

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by mellowinman

My first gig was in 1979. Do I really need to justify my choice of what I wish to sing?

Yes.

[Baird6869]

No offence, but I wouldn't play with you or any band with the "rules" you are trying to enforce. Life's too short.

In my case (gigging since 1985), If a band member wants to sing a song that anyone else in the band either hates or think it won't go over on a gig, we don't play it.... End of discussion. I don't care if a singer wants to sing an obscure song as he loves it or it was the first song at his wedding, etc.... if the band thinks it sucks and the crowd will feel the same, it is out.

We all play songs we dislike (Mustang Sally for me) but crowds expect it and always dance, so it gets played. These should be exceptions.

Being in a band where anyone but the singer(s) has 100% call on what he sings and therefore the band HAS to play.... Not a chance I would put up with that.

Only exception for me would be playing as a sideman with a prominent singer, which is different.

Just IMO.

Originally Posted by mellowinman

My first gig was in 1979. Do I really need to justify my choice of what I wish to sing?

If you want me to play a song, I will play it. THERE WILL BE NO DISCUSSION.

If we play it out, and audiences aren't digging it, I will have something to say.

[mellowinman]

For the last time, I am NOT talking about "obscure" songs, or songs that only I have an attachment to.

Here are some songs I have been vetoed on:

"Busted." Ray Charles. Done similar to the treatment Nazareth did on their "Expect no Mercy" album.

"Victim of Love" Eagles
"Whipping Post" Allman Brothers
"The Guns of Brixton" The Clash
"All I Ever Wanted" Santana
"She's Not There" Santana
"Black Magic Woman" Peter Green version
"War Pigs" Black Sabbath
"Hey Baby" Ted Nugent
"Hot Love" Cheap Trick
"Break on Through" The Doors

I have had every single one of those songs, plus others, vetoed, and yet I have, without complaint played on such amazing winners as:

"Kiss me Deadly" Lita Ford
"Rock Star" Nickelback (I even SANG LEAD on that thing!)
"Plush" Stone Temple Pilots
"Back on the Road Again" REO (I even SANG LEAD on that thing!)
"Let it Roll" Velvet Revolver
"Slither" Velvet Revolver (another one I STILL SING, but probably won't anymore)

I think I have been more than reasonable here. I despise every single one of those songs, and was embarrassed to sing the leads on a couple of them, but I always gave them my best.

But we can't play "Whipping Post" because it's too obscure, or no bikers or classic rock bar patrons would like it?

I mean, are you people SERIOUS????

[Tituscrow]

Originally Posted by mellowinman

For the last time, I am NOT talking about "obscure" songs, or songs that only I have an attachment to.

Here are some songs I have been vetoed on:

"Busted." Ray Charles. Done similar to the treatment Nazareth did on their "Expect no Mercy" album.

"Victim of Love" Eagles
"Whipping Post" Allman Brothers
"The Guns of Brixton" The Clash
"All I Ever Wanted" Santana
"She's Not There" Santana
"Black Magic Woman" Peter Green version
"War Pigs" Black Sabbath
"Hey Baby" Ted Nugent
"Hot Love" Cheap Trick
"Break on Through" The Doors

I have had every single one of those songs, plus others, vetoed, and yet I have, without complaint played on such amazing winners as:

"Kiss me Deadly" Lita Ford
"Rock Star" Nickelback (I even SANG LEAD on that thing!)
"Plush" Stone Temple Pilots
"Back on the Road Again" REO (I even SANG LEAD on that thing!)
"Let it Roll" Velvet Revolver
"Slither" Velvet Revolver (another one I STILL SING, but probably won't anymore)

I think I have been more than reasonable here. I despise every single one of those songs, and was embarrassed to sing the leads on a couple of them, but I always gave them my best.

But we can't play "Whipping Post" because it's too obscure, or no bikers or classic rock bar patrons would like it?

I mean, are you people SERIOUS????

You should suggest playing Zappa's version. Bobby Martins vocals are off the scale.