Band Meeting - Lowered the Boom

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by mellowinman

I mean, are you people SERIOUS????

Of course. This is the internet.

[mellowinman]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

Of course. This is the internet.

I can't believe you finally won a thread.

I'm going to have to give you this one.

[MarkMgibson]

Originally Posted by mellowinman

For the last time, I am NOT talking about "obscure" songs, or songs that only I have an attachment to.

Here are some songs I have been vetoed on:

"Busted." Ray Charles. Done similar to the treatment Nazareth did on their "Expect no Mercy" album.

"Victim of Love" Eagles
"Whipping Post" Allman Brothers
"The Guns of Brixton" The Clash
"All I Ever Wanted" Santana
"She's Not There" Santana
"Black Magic Woman" Peter Green version
"War Pigs" Black Sabbath
"Hey Baby" Ted Nugent
"Hot Love" Cheap Trick
"Break on Through" The Doors

I have had every single one of those songs, plus others, vetoed, and yet I have, without complaint played on such amazing winners as:

"Kiss me Deadly" Lita Ford
"Rock Star" Nickelback (I even SANG LEAD on that thing!)
"Plush" Stone Temple Pilots
"Back on the Road Again" REO (I even SANG LEAD on that thing!)
"Let it Roll" Velvet Revolver
"Slither" Velvet Revolver (another one I STILL SING, but probably won't anymore)

I think I have been more than reasonable here. I despise every single one of those songs, and was embarrassed to sing the leads on a couple of them, but I always gave them my best.

But we can't play "Whipping Post" because it's too obscure, or no bikers or classic rock bar patrons would like it?

I mean, are you people SERIOUS????

I'm not sure I understand your point. You say you will play any song you're asked to play, but you're complaining about playing a bunch of songs you despise? Then you're complaining that your band won't support any of your song choices. That doesn't happen in my band - nobody has to play a song they despise, nor should they.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

That's because most people can't see the forest for the trees. Not caring for a song is one thing... hating a song is childish IMO. It's just a song

Or saying a song is crap.

The song isn't crap, it's just a song you personally don't like.

Blue

[MarkMgibson]

Originally Posted by bluewine

Or saying a song is crap.

The song isn't crap, it's just a song you personally don't like.

Blue

Well, Hip-hop is all utter crap to me. If that makes me childish, fair enough.

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by MarkMgibson

Then I reckon every musician I know is "childish", and every music fan for that matter. Let's face it, there's millions of songs to choose from, so why play ones you can't stand?

Because you're a performer getting paid to play FOR OTHERS. Is that really that complicated?


Seriously, what can't you literally stand about a particular song? Do the lyrics make you ill? Do they repeatedly use the Devil's chord? What exactly is it that would elicit any stronger of a response than you simply don't care for the song?

A few hopefully obvious observations...

Music fans aren't the ones being paid to perform a song. Performers are rarely paid to perform for themselves. Adults understand that sometimes a job might entail doing things that don't necessarily blow your skirt up. Children typically don't and throw varying degrees of tantrums over that simple fact. Because as children they're childish.

If music isn't a job, do it for free. Otherwise that's what the pay is about... doing a job. Now you can have fun at your job like I usually do or you can obsess over things (trees) while missing the big picture (the forest). I swear if I had as much drama gigging as some of you I'd quit playing anywhere outside of my home. And I certainly wouldn't be the one creating the drama.

I guess the big difference might be that I have a sense of humor about this. I can have fun playing damn near anything that I'm likely to have to play. I like music, I don't hate songs. Go figure.


This is just how I see things.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by MarkMgibson

Well, Hip-hop is all utter crap to me. If that makes me childish, fair enough.

Not at all as long as you qualify it with "to me".

My statement on hip hop. I'm 59, I don't understand it. And that's where it stops.

I would feel like a fool saying hip hop is crap when it sells more than any other genre.

And yes, imo if something sells it's good.

Whether you think it's crap or don't understand it like me, it's still a genre that has bought happiness and joy to the souls of millions.

Blue

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by MarkMgibson

Well, Hip-hop is all utter crap to me. If that makes me childish, fair enough.

Speaking in absolutes is childish. Or lazy. Or narrow-minded or something to that effect. No offense... it just is.


Unless you've actually heard all hip-hop, how do you know what you think about it? Not thinking far enough into the statement is definitely childish IMO.

Musicians. Bless their tightly wrapped hearts.

[nortonrider]

Originally Posted by bluewine

And yes, imo if something sells it's good.

I agree!
Kanye West
Snoop Lion
Justin Beiber,
Call me Maybe
Taylor Swift
Mustang Sally

[guy n. cognito]

Guys, you have to stop addressing Brad. He's running out of arrogance and smilies!!!

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by bluewine

Or saying a song is crap.

The song isn't crap, it's just a song you personally don't like.

Blue

And a good musician can do wonders with all sorts of material.

Granted I'm used to playing in groups where, if someone brought up an unfamiliar or obscure or whatever song the musicians would say" Cool... let's try it". Not have a hissy fit. Matter of fact I can't remember the last time I witnessed a real life music related hissy fit. Because of the people I work with and the mentality we operate with. But I see them here quite often.


So yeah, you might see me on the rare club date, playing damn near anything. You might hear a set that includes Sweet Home Alabama, Sex Machine, a frickin' Sinatra cover, Call Me Maybe, Yellow Snow and whatever the heck else we decide to play at the spur of the moment. I play with openminded spontaneous musicians who like to have fun while they're getting paid and the damndest thing happens... an audience can see when you're having fun and they typically have fun too. "I can't believe you guys played that song" is something I've heard quite often as a compliment. And it's a hoot when I'm playing with a funk band and someone yells out Freebird or Stairway and we hit that ___ too.

[obimark]

IME playing stuff out is the only TRUE test of what works and doesn't.
That is part of the fun of coming up with a setlist for a cover band and trying it out.
There are songs I didn't care for much, which I have seen go OVER VERY well, ie. Fly Me Courageous, others that I thought were really good, that just fizzled when we play them.
It is all a great experiment though.

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by obimark

IME playing stuff out is the only TRUE test of what works and doesn't.
That is part of the fun of coming up with a setlist for a cover band and trying it out.
There are songs I didn't care for much, which I have seen go OVER VERY well, ie. Fly Me Courageous, others that I thought were really good, that just fizzled when we play them.
It is all a great experiment though.

Exactly. Seen it a ton of times. The song the band thought would kill died, the one threw in by request had the who house rocking. Sometimes we as musicians pick a setlist based on what we like instead of who we're playing for. Bad idea (usually).

[malthumb]

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

On the key thing, I'm sure you know the people you're dealing with so I'd guess that's a fair call. OTOH I ask what key a band is doing Superstition in because people do it in so many keys it makes sense to make sure everyone is on the same page. IME that doesn't require a rehearsal... it simply requires a key.

I agree on the key thing....it actually comes up several times every gig. I'm the official "keeper of the keys" in our band. I do expect though, that if one of us is suggesting we play a song that is not on our playlist, they darn well better know what key they want it played in. I also know that in rehearsal we had trouble separating the guitar and bass parts on the "13-year old baby.....broke the looking glass....7-years of bad luck....etc" part of the song. We actually just worked that out today, ironically, so we'll have the song ready for the next gig. I'd rather have that train wreck ironed out in my BL's basement than in front of a couple hundred patrons.

[kjpollo]

Originally Posted by mellowinman

For the last time, I am NOT talking about "obscure" songs, or songs that only I have an attachment to.

Here are some songs I have been vetoed on:

"Busted." Ray Charles. Done similar to the treatment Nazareth did on their "Expect no Mercy" album.

"Victim of Love" Eagles
"Whipping Post" Allman Brothers
"The Guns of Brixton" The Clash
"All I Ever Wanted" Santana
"She's Not There" Santana
"Black Magic Woman" Peter Green version
"War Pigs" Black Sabbath
"Hey Baby" Ted Nugent
"Hot Love" Cheap Trick
"Break on Through" The Doors

I have had every single one of those songs, plus others, vetoed, and yet I have, without complaint played on such amazing winners as:

"Kiss me Deadly" Lita Ford
"Rock Star" Nickelback (I even SANG LEAD on that thing!)
"Plush" Stone Temple Pilots
"Back on the Road Again" REO (I even SANG LEAD on that thing!)
"Let it Roll" Velvet Revolver
"Slither" Velvet Revolver (another one I STILL SING, but probably won't anymore)

I think I have been more than reasonable here. I despise every single one of those songs, and was embarrassed to sing the leads on a couple of them, but I always gave them my best.

But we can't play "Whipping Post" because it's too obscure, or no bikers or classic rock bar patrons would like it?

I mean, are you people SERIOUS????

Hey Baby's another one my old band did. That was one of our 2 or 3 best songs and it went over great. I cant believe your guys wont go for it. Weird how things work like that.
AND we were just starting Break on Through when we lost our keyboard player to a 3rd shift job.

[MarkMgibson]

Originally Posted by nortonrider

I agree!
Kanye West
Snoop Lion
Justin Beiber,
Call me Maybe
Taylor Swift
Mustang Sally

[mellowinman]

Originally Posted by MarkMgibson

I'm not sure I understand your point. You say you will play any song you're asked to play, but you're complaining about playing a bunch of songs you despise? Then you're complaining that your band won't support any of your song choices. That doesn't happen in my band - nobody has to play a song they despise, nor should they.

I will gladly play bass, or acoustic guitar, or keyboards, ON ANY SONG ANYONE I JAM WITH WANTS TO PLAY.

Even if I DON'T LIKE THAT SONG.

What I will NOT do is sing lead vocals on a song I don't like, and by "don't like" I mean, "feel strongly that I would be embarrassed to sing it in front of an audience."

If you are a singer, and you can sing something well, I should back you, and play my best. If the song is one I would have to work hard at, I will work hard at it. If it is just beyond my ability, then I will tell you.

Case in point: Train, Train by Blackfoot.

I discouraged my band from playing it for one simple reason:

I didn't believe I could pull it off on harp.

Now, once I actually got it, (which surprised me, because I didn't think I ever would,) I said, "OK, that one's a go, if you still want to do it," and they did, so we did, and now it's one of the strongest songs on the set list. I worked on that harp part alone, in my office, to the original recording, and by watching "how to play it" videos, for MONTHS! I dedicated a lot of my time and effort to learn the part, not because I'm such a nice guy, or because I should get voted "bandmate of the year" or anything; I did it because I felt the need to expand my abilities.

We all know why my band didn't want to learn "Whipping Post." It's a fairly difficult song, especially for the drummer, with a lot of starts and stops, and different time signatures, and he simply is too lazy to do the work to learn it.

Do you understand my point now?

[mellowinman]

Originally Posted by kjpollo

Hey Baby's another one my old band did. That was one of our 2 or 3 best songs and it went over great. I cant believe your guys wont go for it. Weird how things work like that.
AND we were just starting Break on Through when we lost our keyboard player to a 3rd shift job.

I was actually going to do "Break on Through" without the keys! I just LOVE doing Doors songs as if Ray were never in the band. Just a perverse little pleasure of mine.

[malthumb]

After reading through this entire thread I understand a little better where you are coming from. Recognize that a lot of the pushback is because of the extreme positions you have described. Reading your subsequent posts seem to indicate that your REAL position is not as extreme. Also, when I step back and look at my own thoughts on this and how I deal with things in my bar band, my position would look a lot like the following.......

Originally Posted by mellowinman

Howzabout this for a rule guideline?

If you want to sing a song, I will learn it. (that's already been my rule, for four years)

If I want to sing a song, you will learn it.

There will be no some discussion on where and how it fits with our audience, or and opinions given will be considered. We will work up whatever songs anyone wants to sing, and only after mastering after working through them will we decide whether they make the set list, SHOW BY SHOW fit and if we should continue working on them.

And if you're the drummer, and you DON'T SING, you will make LISTS of songs you want to perform, and you will have to recruit one of the three singers for the songswe'll figure out how best to handle the vocals, and if NO ONE can sing the song well, then the song will be forgotten about.

I don't care if we get five hundred songs worked up. It gives us more versatility, and it helps us to jam. Nobody should ever sing anything they can't do justice to, and everyone should get a chance to at least have a shot at doing a vocal that means something to them.

I have always had the rule that I will play anything I am asked to play, but I have never felt good about singing something just to please someone else.

What do you think about that?

And yes, this does mean I will never sing "Slither" again, and that we will have way too many Aerosmith songs.

That's pretty much how I and my band work and it has served us well.

[ChrisB2]

Originally Posted by mellowinman

If the song is one I would have to work hard at, I will work hard at it. If it is just beyond my ability, then I will tell you.

Wait... wouldn't that qualify as "discussion"???