Band Member Negativity Issue

MNAirHead · #1 01-12-2010, 10:36 PM

So..

Background
We started a band about a year ago. I worked my tail off launching it beyond the garage band phase (website, organization, logo etc). At our first showcase set, I land us a corporate daytime gig.

In short my band mate (guitar) said we'd never get out.

Since this time, he's been either consciously or subconsciously sabbotaging opportunities via crusty old guy attitude.

When asked he basically says "I don't have to kiss up.. I've done everything I've wanted with music - there are 15 other things I could be doing"

We're playing 60s bubblegum pop.. have a ton of potential (casinos, family outdoor events, carshows etc) -- and an easy sales pitch.

So drop him?

Has anyone ever done this successfully with a founding member?

Steve · #2 01-12-2010, 10:45 PM

By "Crusty old guy attitude" and "I don''t have to kiss up"....

You wouldn't by chance be referring to a lack of desire to do freebies for "exposure"...would you?

MNAirHead · #3 01-12-2010, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve

By "Crusty old guy attitude" and "I don''t have to kiss up"....

You wouldn't by chance be referring to a lack of desire to do freebies for "exposure"...would you?

Nope... just interacting with the general public.. or band mates... it becomes magnified right before we play out... almost like an anxiety thing

We shake it off as a band --- the outside world doesn't know about him.

The "I don't have to kiss up" means aplogise to the venue manager when the band mate says stuff harsh, cold or offensive.

Stumbo · #4 01-12-2010, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

So drop him?

If he doesn't want to be in a gigging band, making some money and having a good time, I'd seriously consider replacing the guy.

Sounds like he's already fired himself.

IMO, just let him know he's fired for real.

Jim Campbell · #5 01-12-2010, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

Nope... just interacting with the general public.. or band mates.

We shake it off as a band --- the outside world doesn't know about him.

The "I don't have to kiss up" means aplogise to the venue manager when the band mate says stuff harsh, cold or offensive.

well the band is viewed as a unit and anything he says could bite your butts too,so.......but i'd give a founder the courtesy of a sit down/major attitudinal adjustmental,and if he doesn't seem ready to get with the program.....gonzo

**jmattbassplaya** · #6 01-12-2010, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stumbo

If he doesn't want to be in a gigging band, making some money and having a good time, I'd seriously consider replacing the guy.

Sounds like he's already fired himself.

IMO, just let him know he's fired for real.

+1

Although might I add that you should try to find a replacement first. Lord knows how long it might take to find a guitarist who wants to play that kind of music.

Steve · #7 01-12-2010, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

Nope... just interacting with the general public.. or band mates.

We shake it off as a band --- the outside world doesn't know about him.

The "I don't have to kiss up" means aplogise to the venue manager when the band mate says stuff harsh, cold or offensive.

Well then...in that case...he sure doesn't seem to have much interest in it. Does he? Seems like it's time for him to be doing one of those other 15 things.

cliffbass1 · #8 01-12-2010, 11:27 PM

This is what i would do: find his replacement then call him over tell him he's out of the band because of his piss poor attitude.

DudeistMonk · #9 01-12-2010, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

+1

Although might I add that you should try to find a replacement first. Lord knows how long it might take to find a guitarist who wants to play that kind of music.

ROFL "Wait, so I don't get to shred anything? I have to leave my distortion pedal at home..and you want me to play I Want Candy?"

ericjschroeder · #10 01-12-2010, 11:41 PM

Yeah, that's too bad. Say what you will, the guitar player holds a prominent spot in rock bands. Sure, it's possible to find someone else to play the same songs, but if you don't have any well-known songs that the fans know are by your band, then it doesn't matter. Even then, another guitar player can probably play them just as well. Do what you have to, to keep your dream alive and make sure all your band members have the same dreams/goals. A Bad (public) Attitude may sell CDs and get publicity but inside the band it can destroy the creative energy. As one of my band members said, "If it stops being fun, I'll stop doing it". It's a lot of work, but make sure it's fun!

**jmattbassplaya** · #11 01-13-2010, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DudeistMonk

ROFL "Wait, so I don't get to shred anything? I have to leave my distortion pedal at home..and you want me to play I Want Candy?"

My thoughts exactly.

MNAirHead · #12 01-13-2010, 12:26 AM

Thanks.. this is my instinct reaction.

The others want to just ignore cynical sense of humor. It doesn't bug me if the public and/or customers don't ever hear it.

Tim

Stumbo · #13 01-13-2010, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

So..

Since this time, he's been either consciously or subconsciously sabbotaging opportunities via crusty old guy attitude.

So why defend him? What so funny about his sense of humor?

What's his purpose? What are his goals for the band?

If he's the leader of the band, why create drama where none need exist?

IMO, with someone like him running the show, it doesn't seem like the ground work is being laid for good band relationships. What if everyone acted like him? Why does he think it's okay for him to say the things he does?

I'd say a band meeting is in order. Let him know that being negative about everything is not working and that he needs to change his attitude and/or keep his mouth shut if he doesn't have anything constructive to say.

Seems like his "sense of humor" is just a way to verbally abuse the people around him for no reason other than it amuses him. I bet he doesn't keep girlfriends or wives around very long.

How about "Don't be a problem, be a problem solver" as a band motto.

MNAirHead · #14 01-13-2010, 01:13 AM

Stumbo..

As always you deduct the truth.

Why.. good question.. at first it was just kind of the dirty old guy humor... At first he was carrying the band singlehanded.

Once the jam phase was over his "jokes" became more cynical.

His noted downfall was after we added a keyboardist with superior talent and knowledge.

When the project is only to play out a few times per month, the other bandmates squirm and ignore the sporratic outbursts... many times they're funny.. periodically they're cutting.

My mistake was letting it go on... lesson learned.

Geeze .. I'm wondering if the road cirucuit is easier than the local band... stuff like this lasts like 5 minutes before the producers would have taken care of the issue.

I am not convinced he'd man up when it came time for him to opt out. The other band mates are the types that care and would help through transitions.

My concern for this is the foundation is set for a legacy theme act... not convinced a negative element helps anything.

Starting to really admire those of you who have assembled a working part time regional act --- what most folks percieve as the tougher circle was much easier..not sure if I can cut it in the garage band circuit --- too much work before the real work of sales is started -- full time seems tons easier

MNAirHead · #15 01-13-2010, 01:54 AM

So..

Add on question....

With a combative guy, is it wrong to send a note to the band mates in advance explaining the position?

Normally I'd say it's unethical.... in this instance he LOVES a good argument.. he would not discuss an improvement plan, just that he doesn't have to do anything.

If we were to have a band meeting, it would put the other members in a bad spot.. I'd have to get to the point of playing my dirty pool card "me or him.... you pick.. my name.. my warehouse.. my web url.. my PA... my contracts.. my brochures.. and I'm decades younger + postitive attitude"

I sincerely do not want the band to implode.. we're right at the cusp of moving to the B-Call List... I may be the only one in the band who understands how magical and fun it is when all the folks genuinely click, care and contribute...

Tim

The other folks have come such a long way in the last few months - I'm wondering if the right thing to do is for me to exit (if they want to avoid .the negativity discussion)

ssbass · #16 01-13-2010, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

So..

Background
We started a band about a year ago. I worked my tail off launching it beyond the garage band phase (website, organization, logo etc). At our first showcase set, I land us a corporate daytime gig.

In short my band mate (guitar) said we'd never get out.

Since this time, he's been either consciously or subconsciously sabbotaging opportunities via crusty old guy attitude.

When asked he basically says "I don't have to kiss up.. I've done everything I've wanted with music - there are 15 other things I could be doing"

We're playing 60s bubblegum pop.. have a ton of potential (casinos, family outdoor events, carshows etc) -- and an easy sales pitch.

So drop him?

Has anyone ever done this successfully with a founding member?

This is the exact problem we are having with our guitarist. It really brings everyone down and i fear he will sabotage gigs.

DeluxeRed · #17 01-13-2010, 12:30 PM

If I may be a bit blunt...

The problem seems to be that he can be a jerk.

The problem really is one of two things:

1) You really don't care enough to fix it, so I'd suggest you just sit down and hush up. Otherwise, you'd just be a drama queen.

2) You think you care, but don't have the, um, fortitude to actually speak to him honestly like adults. Either you don't trust him to act like an adult (in which case, you're already stabbing him in the back), or you don't trust yourself to.

Either way, it's not his problem, it is yours.

If you have an issue, man-up and talk to the parties about it. Or hush up. No sense whining behind their backs. And isn't being worried about putting others on the spot really saying you think you have to look out for them, because you don't think they can handle things like adults, which is pretty condencending, isn't it?

It is sooo much better--and easier--to just put it on the table. That, or get over it. And stop treating people like children.

MatticusMania · #18 01-13-2010, 12:37 PM

Ive had a guitarist like that. He ended up quitting the band via myspace comment on the bands site. He didnt like the fact that I was progressing as a player and starting to write more creative pieces than he was. He was the kind of guy to write songs himself and bring them to the band. I was the type to create a song from the jams we were having. At one point he claimed we were playing more of 'my' songs than 'his' songs. I told him they were all 'our' songs (not to mention he had a hand at writing more of them than I did). Things got much better after he left and the drummer and I continued on as a 2 piece. At one point he came by our rehearsal and dropped a hint at how we sounded good but would be even better with a guitarist.

MatticusMania · #19 01-13-2010, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeluxeRed

If I may be a bit blunt...

The problem seems to be that he can be a jerk.

The problem really is one of two things:

1) You really don't care enough to fix it, so I'd suggest you just sit down and hush up. Otherwise, you'd just be a drama queen.

2) You think you care, but don't have the, um, fortitude to actually speak to him honestly like adults. Either you don't trust him to act like an adult (in which case, you're already stabbing him in the back), or you don't trust yourself to.

Either way, it's not his problem, it is yours.

If you have an issue, man-up and talk to the parties about it. Or hush up. No sense whining behind their backs. And isn't being worried about putting others on the spot really saying you think you have to look out for them, because you don't think they can handle things like adults, which is pretty condencending, isn't it?

It is sooo much better--and easier--to just put it on the table. That, or get over it. And stop treating people like children.

Youre not the guitarist in question, are you?

scottbass · #20 01-13-2010, 12:43 PM

Tim -

I'm prettty sure I auditioned with this guy and a few of his friends about 5 or 6 years ago. The drummer who was playing with them was a great guy, though. They offered me the job and I turned it down because this guy really rubbed me the wrong way from the first minute I met him.

I wish you luck. It's tough to have to change things up personnel-wise, especially when you feel that you have just started to make progress on gigs, bookings, name recognition, etc.