Band obsessed with recording

jpTron · #1 08-31-2010, 11:34 AM

My band is a 3 piece right now (guitar, drums, bass) and have been looking for a singer for the past few months. Our guitarist has a firepod and some mics and all he wants to do is record. I feel like our priority is to first and foremost look for a singer. In the meantime the logical thing to do is practice our asses off so we're at least tight for when we get a singer so we can start playing shows.
The last 2 practices we had were kind of embarrassingly bad except for my performance because I practice our songs on my own time. I'm 28 and I've been through the whole studio recording and home recording thing and it's fun I know, but I also know where priorities should be. THey're 20 and 21 so I know this whole thing is very new to them and the 'thrill' of hearing yourself on playback at pro sound quality really gets them off. The past 2 weeks I've been asking about practice (our only day that we're all free is Friday evening) and they're like "no we're recording drums". I feel like recording an EP is such a waste of time when our "live" performance isn't very good and we don't have a singer. I'm also the only one asking around and posting ads.
Anyone else in, or has been in this position?

Uladyne · #2 08-31-2010, 11:51 AM

Having a recording can be immensely helpful in obtaining a singer and/or gigs, so it can be important. An EP at this stage might be overkill though, as a simple demo would suffice. You also don't want to worry about "locking down" your sound until you get a singer, as you may decide to change things when you see what you end up with. Also, if they can't play well at practice I'm not sure what makes them think they're ready to track their parts effectively. Garbage in, garbage out.

I think it would be a good idea to polish everyone's performance and then make a good clean demo to hand out to potential singers. It will most likely expedite the search, because you can give each candidate a link to some mp3's and tell them to study it and so they can be prepared for an audition. If you audition people without a recording you might put in a lot of effort before finding out that the guy/girl isn't right for the band.

Also, I highly recommend auditioning singers in a recording setting. This way, you can critique their performance long after they leave, and compare multiple singers if you're having a hard time making a final decision. Plus it will be easier to hear if they're having a hard time staying on key or if they have timing issues, etc, as you won't have to worry about playing your own parts right during the audition. It will also put them on the spot, having to perform in front of all of you on their own, which will be a good indicator of how he will react as a front(wo)man.

bassbully · #3 08-31-2010, 11:54 AM

Have they listened to the recordings? Are they bad? Recordings are IMO only good for bands who have an established product and plan to use it as a demo to get gigs or promote. Without a singer and practice you are yet to be established, ready to gig or promote. Recording is wasting your time. Get them onboard or move on to others who are ready to try to make music...life too short to waste making bad music with a bad band.

Tampabass · #4 08-31-2010, 12:04 PM

honestly, my first (or second) instinct would be to move on to musicians with more maturity and experience, etc., UNLESS you're feeling some awfully great chemistry with these guys. You know, you might wanna cut your losses rather than put in several more months with a project that may or may not ever get off the ground.

I like recording - even just for the sake of recording, to create good music and great sounds on tape - but with this group it sounds as if recording could just be a time waste/stall.

Unless you're recording an instrumental project, I don't see the point of putting together a super-polished band recording until you have the singer in place.

jpTron · #5 08-31-2010, 12:06 PM

The thing is we record our practices with the mics and they're good and clear enough to hand out to people and that's what we send to potential singers. The quality is good and we usually get compliments on the recording/performace. It's the multitrack recording they're obsessed with constantly doing that are a bit over kill at this point. They do sound good too because they just cut and paste if a part is off or redo takes. I mean don't get me wrong, they're great people and musicians,but the last couple of practices were just a bit off. But that was in part because we hadn't practiced for 2 weeks prior to that since some of us were on vacation. So instead of getting back together in the past few weeks to regain our tightness, they decide to record. Ugh.
And i definetley agree with you Uladyne about changing parts once we get a singer and I've expressed it to them. They're just hung up on playing with their "toys".

Raymeous · #6 08-31-2010, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uladyne

Having a recording can be immensely helpful in obtaining a singer and/or gigs, so it can be important. An EP at this stage might be overkill though, as a simple demo would suffice. You also don't want to worry about "locking down" your sound until you get a singer, as you may decide to change things when you see what you end up with. Also, if they can't play well at practice I'm not sure what makes them think they're ready to track their parts effectively. Garbage in, garbage out.

I think it would be a good idea to polish everyone's performance and then make a good clean demo to hand out to potential singers. It will most likely expedite the search, because you can give each candidate a link to some mp3's and tell them to study it and so they can be prepared for an audition. If you audition people without a recording you might put in a lot of effort before finding out that the guy/girl isn't right for the band.

Also, I highly recommend auditioning singers in a recording setting. This way, you can critique their performance long after they leave, and compare multiple singers if you're having a hard time making a final decision. Plus it will be easier to hear if they're having a hard time staying on key or if they have timing issues, etc, as you won't have to worry about playing your own parts right during the audition. It will also put them on the spot, having to perform in front of all of you on their own, which will be a good indicator of how he will react as a front(wo)man.

+1 Pretty much sums it up.

For an example of the first paragraph check out the band Nightwish. They started off looking to do an piano, acoustic guitar, and vocal thing. When they picked up Tarja, a classically trained opera singer, they quickly learned that her voice was way too powerful for an acoustic gig. They are now a top gothic orchestral metal act. She's since left the band but it highlights a singers impact.

Recording a few track is a good thing so that your potential singer has something to study. Also recording your "auditions" would be very helpful. However those songs may change dramatically once you get a singer due to that persons range, songwriting skills, or tastes.

In answer to your question should recording be the focus, I'm not sure. A bad recording due to bad songwriting or lack of practice can be a huge negative as well. I think an EP is a bit much at this point but putting together a couple of songs for the purpose of auditioning a vocalist does make sense. I just wouldn't go selling it or giving it away at gigs.

Uladyne · #7 08-31-2010, 12:32 PM

Well in light of this new information (you already having demo quality recordings) I fully agree that they are wasting their time. If you want to stick with the band you might just have to wait it out and let them get this out of their system. It sounds like they have a bit of maturing to do musically. They'll eventually realize that they're wasting their time when they find out how much will change after getting a singer, but hopefully they realize it quick and don't waste their entire musical youth making a new EP everytime a little change occurs.

You may want to ask them if they want to be professional musicians or audio engineers.

duff beer · #8 08-31-2010, 04:15 PM

Record a live performance, listen to it with them and point out the flaws in the performance. Then tell them that you don't want to record until they know the material better.

Marko5657 · #9 08-31-2010, 05:33 PM

Are they recording covers or originals. If originals, maybe they’re really not focused on playing out, in which case they’re not wasting their time.

I always preferred writing/recording originals to playing out, but alas, I keep getting dragged into covers bands. Not that I don’t enjoy it, too, but there are different kinds of people, some more concerned about the art of writing music and others playing.

Maybe you and they are just on different pages, nothing wrong with either.

jpTron · #10 08-31-2010, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duff beer

Record a live performance, listen to it with them and point out the flaws in the performance. Then tell them that you don't want to record until they know the material better.

I would if the fact we can't get through a song in its entirety isn't a strong enough indication already... ugh. Reading my own words is frustrating me more. It's like "we almost got through that song... lets record it this weekend!!!!11". I'd feel like I was wasting my time if it weren't for....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marko5657

Are they recording covers or originals. If originals, maybe they’re really not focused on playing out, in which case they’re not wasting their time.

I always preferred writing/recording originals to playing out, but alas, I keep getting dragged into covers bands. Not that I don’t enjoy it, too, but there are different kinds of people, some more concerned about the art of writing music and others playing.

Maybe you and they are just on different pages, nothing wrong with either.

6 songs, all originals. Great, diverse songs too if I do say so myself. But they constantly talk about how we can't wait to play shows once we get a singer, blah blah. We're on the same page for the most part. They're just obsessed with hearing themselves. It's like a kid when they first see their reflection and they're amazed by it. We're all big Porcupine Tree fans, and I think our guitarist really wants to be Steven Wilson and be good on both sides of the board. I'm not bad myself, but I do it on my own time.

FrenchAK · #11 08-31-2010, 08:49 PM

Oh, man. I'm in almost the exact same situation.
We've had about five, maybe six rehearsals, two or three of those were recordings on the guitarist/leader's home computer and one mic. Recording one instrument at a time... Painstaking and difficult.
Anyway, I agree. Your (and our) priority should be to find a decent singer who can mesh with the band. It'll probably take more than one audition, so you (and we) need to start now if you want to do anything anytime soon...
Anyway, let them have their recording fix, if they need it. But if it starts to take up too much more time, sway them in the direction you think you need to move in, but don't be obnoxious or pretentious about it (Don't hold the fact that you may have more experience over them).

Joe Nerve · #12 08-31-2010, 09:03 PM

I don't think there's anything wrong with what they want to do, aside from the fact that you don't want to do it. Being on different pages is what the problem is. I know countless artists, including myself, who've recorded things long before a band existed or was complete. Having good songs recorded, and not simply rehersal demos, will be an asset when trying to fill spots. My guess is if you keep fighting them yours is going to be the first they fill.

There's nothing wrong with what you want to do either. Some people want to just get out there playing as soon as possible. Gigging is their priority.

Which is better is fodder for a great discussion. There are many who believe you need to produce and promote a great product, build and audience, and then go out there and start gigging. Others think it's much better to gig, build an audience, then start putting the music out. I could list reasons why both are the better way to go. Strengths and weaknesses of the band could dictate a lots regarding this.

I think it's band meeting time for you guys. If you work at establishing exactly what your plans and goals are things might be a lot easier for everyone. These might just not be the guys for you.

bluewine · #13 09-01-2010, 11:01 AM

I'm obsessed with playing live shows in front of decent size crowds.
I can't stand being in a recording studio.J ohn lennon didn't like being in the studio either.

No, I am not comparing myself with JL.

Coop Soup · #14 09-01-2010, 11:50 AM

I was in a band that recorded every practice. We had a cd writer and ran everyone into the board and came up with a solid mix. It was a fantastic tool to aid in writing parts and provided accountability for mistakes players were making.

jpTron · #15 09-01-2010, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Nerve

I don't think there's anything wrong with what they want to do, aside from the fact that you don't want to do it. Being on different pages is what the problem is. I know countless artists, including myself, who've recorded things long before a band existed or was complete. Having good songs recorded, and not simply rehersal demos, will be an asset when trying to fill spots. My guess is if you keep fighting them yours is going to be the first they fill.

There's nothing wrong with what you want to do either. Some people want to just get out there playing as soon as possible. Gigging is their priority.

Which is better is fodder for a great discussion. There are many who believe you need to produce and promote a great product, build and audience, and then go out there and start gigging. Others think it's much better to gig, build an audience, then start putting the music out. I could list reasons why both are the better way to go. Strengths and weaknesses of the band could dictate a lots regarding this.

I think it's band meeting time for you guys. If you work at establishing exactly what your plans and goals are things might be a lot easier for everyone. These might just not be the guys for you.

I see pros and cons of both sides and there's nothing wrong with what they're doing except we have intentions of being a band with a singer. And as someone pointed out, a lot can change once a singer comes in. I even hear parts in our songs that I think could be longer or shorter or completely omitted once we get one. And the fact we're not the tightest band now is a bit of a concern. The rehearsal demos we've made are good because they aren't just one mic in the middle of the room picking up everything. We're using at least 5 mics. I used those demos to learn the songs. I'm not fighting them on it. I mentioned what I thought would be a better way to go one time and that was it. They have the luxury of doing it because they live 5 mins from each other. I'm 30 mins away in a different state. They can record all day, every day for all I care, but when it interferes with band practice, like it has the past few weeks, I start to get a little worried that it's all they want to do. Luckily I'm in the process of moving and the fact we aren't practicing helps me out a bit, but when I'm all settled in it will be a different story.