band problem - jamming issue

Step · #1 01-12-2010, 03:41 PM

hey everybody

I've started a band with a good friend of mine, it's just me on bass and him on drums making riffy rock, we've been rehearsing nicely lately and I finally feel we are getting somewhere, which is nice

we have an upcoming show at some sort of artist commune/squatter place, it would be our first gig opportunity

the drummer has invited another guitarist to the 'gig' because the guitarist was present when he was invited to the gig, this is not the problem, the drummer was fair in inviting him to join us.

the guitarist however, is crap I believe, he has no band/jam experience whatsoever and I doubt he knows theory, he has only played alone with the drummer, however when I join it's a different ballgame, he needs to stick to certain notes and we need to communicate properly etc. you know the drill.

so the choices presented to me are the following:

1)just play the gig and maybe look completely stupid because the guitarist can't follow me or convey the heaviness me and the drummer can do

2)don't play the gig: I'd be missing out on a fun experience and rock but have the risk of looking stupid.

3)ask the guitarist to not join us: this is what i'd like the most, me and the drummer are tight and we have some songs/riffs/ideas prepped that we can work out, and even then we can jam some pretty good stuff

so, dilemma, what would you do?

**jmattbassplaya** · #2 01-12-2010, 04:21 PM

I personally have a problem with people inviting guests to sit in with us be it studio work or live. It`s unprofessional and often creates unnecessary problems and bad tension.

Personally I`d tell your drummer that he really needs to check with the rest of the band before he invites guest players in and to not offer them a spot unless everyone else is fine with the arrangement. Remember, if the guest player sounds bad your band sounds bad. There`s only so many times a band can have an off night before it becomes locally known that you guys can`t hold your own and aren`t worth seeing.

Step · #3 01-12-2010, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

I personally have a problem with people inviting guests to sit in with us be it studio work or live. It`s unprofessional and often creates unnecessary problems and bad tension.

Personally I`d tell your drummer that he really needs to check with the rest of the band before he invites guest players in and to not offer them a spot unless everyone else is fine with the arrangement. Remember, if the guest player sounds bad your band sounds bad. There`s only so many times a band can have an off night before it becomes locally known that you guys can`t hold your own and aren`t worth seeing.

If the guitarist joins we won't be playing under our regular name but choose some other random name just for the night, but yes it's still me standing there and I don't want to be booed off stage

yes I kind of agree about the drummer inviting people, I'd like to get out of this jamming thing for once and write and perform songs

I guess I'll have to talk to him about that

s_mcsleazy · #4 01-12-2010, 04:27 PM

just say you cant see yourself playing with him

Ubersheist · #5 01-12-2010, 09:09 PM

There's a pretty big problem if the drummer's inviting people in that can't hang with y'all. It's not the guitarists fault, it's the drummers if this is true.

I think that good musicians have no problems with someone randomly sitting in on a jam, so long as the person who brought him in can vouch for his ability and you trust that person's judgement.

It sounds like you can't trust your drummer's judgment.

It sure sounds like you need to talk to the drummer. When you do, keep an open mind. Maybe you've misjudged the guitarist. Maybe he's bringing in the guitarist for other reasons.

Communication is probably your friend in this situation.

walker rosewood · #6 01-12-2010, 10:28 PM

I can't fathom playing a gig with a guest without having them come to a rehearsal at least once. Can that be arranged?

Also you could play your stuff, then 'invite' the guy on stage for a song or two. Or better yet, you could have the guitarist and the drummer play first, since they like jamming together. Then you and the drummer can run your set. Then you won't be associated as much with the guitarist, and if he sucks, it'll just make you look better.

DudeistMonk · #7 01-12-2010, 11:31 PM

Yeah at least play with the guy in private first.

Also maybe just a song or two? I don't know how this guy expects to just pick up on your stuff live, especially if he can't play? I assume you guys play stuff where the bass would double guitar more often than not, heavy riffy stuff like Zep?...Welcome to lost-ville population guitard. Do you guys have stuff written or is it more bass drum jam off a few headers/progressions?

The only thing I can think of is that the drummer doesn't think this is a gig but more like a public jam, and doesn't give a crap? Which I can see, if I was playing for free in some stoned poets basement I might think that too, still you guys need to talk.

Stanley Design · #8 01-13-2010, 01:26 AM

In a drummers eyes, maybe he doesn't really understand it takes more than solo skills to play with other guys. Maybe the jam the drummer and guitarist did together went great and he doesn't see any reason why you both can't lock in together even if that's the case.

Step · #9 01-13-2010, 04:23 AM

thanks for the replies

just to clarify this wasn't a gig for our band per se, but it could have been if the drummer didn't invite the guitarist, now it's more of a jam thing situation

I haven't played with the guitarist yet, there may be time to rehearse but I don't think there's time to study songs

the music we play is mostly heavy distorted bass, I know distorted bass doesn't really work with guitars so I'd have to leave the effects home

hmm, I guess I need to talk about the drummer and maybe arrange a rehearsal with the guitar, maybe it's not all bad

to clarify the drummer's behavior, we have done the same thing in the past, we just went on a stage with me the drummer and a guitarist and we jammed and it sounded really good, the problem is that that guitarist is a session musician and can solo for days, has really good ear etc.

thanks for all the replies so far

Nashrakh · #10 01-13-2010, 04:51 AM

Don't let the guitarist make YOU look stupid, let HIM look stupid!

Which means: Totally own the stage and the music. Let his lines seem like he f*cks up (which he'll ultimately do so it's not your fault anyway), which can be achieved with enough self confidence and stage presence.

I'd say take the effects board with you and turn your amp to 11

/jk

Bootzilla · #11 01-13-2010, 05:12 AM

Leave that distortion on and drown his silly lines in your wall of sound. At least the distortion will blend in more than the clean sound even if the notes are wrong.

Step · #12 01-13-2010, 02:52 PM

update: I called the drummer and I said I would like it if he and the guitarist played the show
he then suggested playing the first half with just the guitarist and the second half with just me.
I don't know what I'll do, I don't really 'need' to play and don't want to upstage the guitarist.

so I feel like this is resolved, the drummer knows I don't really like what he did, I made it clear I don't want to jam anymore but write songs and perform them and perform them with just us two

cheers for the help!

Personatech · #13 01-13-2010, 04:07 PM

Good luck, bro! Let us know how the gig turns out!

**jmattbassplaya** · #14 01-13-2010, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Step

update: I called the drummer and I said I would like it if he and the guitarist played the show
he then suggested playing the first half with just the guitarist and the second half with just me.
I don't know what I'll do, I don't really 'need' to play and don't want to upstage the guitarist.

so I feel like this is resolved, the drummer knows I don't really like what he did, I made it clear I don't want to jam anymore but write songs and perform them and perform them with just us two

cheers for the help!

At least you said something about it...

...but I can`t believe you now basically lost half your gig for this guitarist...

Step · #15 01-15-2010, 05:20 AM

update time: yesterday I saw the drummer in person and I understand it much better

basically it wasn't the drummer who got invited to jam, it was the drummer and guitarist together, they go to the same classes and one girl who is also in their classes is setting up this gig.

so we talked and he's not really sure if he wants to play with the guitarist and he'd rather play with me than just jam away with the guitarist

I'm thinking I might have been a bit too negative about this whole thing, I probably should've talked to the drummer in person first before drawing conclusions or something

anyway, Resolved

dazgreen · #16 01-16-2010, 09:23 AM

Has anyone asked how the guitarist feels about it ? It could well be that he is under no illusions as to his ability and may well not even want to do the gig himself. It sounds like it was a real spur of the moment thing.

steveksux · #17 01-16-2010, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walker rosewood

I can't fathom playing a gig with a guest without having them come to a rehearsal at least once. Can that be arranged?.

I did last night. Guitar player. We exchanged song lists, what we do, what he do. Picked songs, learned what we needed to, on our own.

In fairness, the rest of us did practice together 3 - 4 times (went through 2 other guitars, and 1 other drummer), its a new band. I played with the drummer and keyboard player in other bands before. Keyboard played with horn/singer in a different band, and with the guitar player in yet another band.

I've filled in with bands with no rehearsal as well.

This situation is different, if they're just jamming, there's no way to get familiar with the material beforehand without some rehearsing, unless they gave guitar player recordings or charts to go off of. You can have a situation where the band leader could bring in people without consulting the others, not optimal, but possible. In this case, having the drummer fill that role, as leader, is NEVER a good thing...

But cover bands of all sorts pull this stuff off without rehearsals more than you might imagine. Has to be people that know their stuff, that know the correct question is not how loud I should play to hear myself, but how quiet I should play to hear everyone else...

Randy

John Wentzien · #18 01-23-2010, 02:25 PM

Attachment 154049

MEKer · #19 01-23-2010, 10:30 PM

so far it sounds like you are all pretty loose in what you are doing and that's OK, depending on what the people watching you will remember about YOU.

If you are looking to get serious as you say------I would avoid the loose style of gig if it worries you so much.
Remember its better to not be heard than be heard playing badly/sounding bad for any reason.