Band Problems...Just When We Were Getting Good

winstonthecat · #1 12-12-2008, 10:43 PM

So my main cover band is starting to get consistent gigs, and receiving good crowd reactions when we play. Everyone is having fun and getting along. Until.......

Tonight at practice, our guitar player wants to add a song to our list and our female singer absolutely refuses. The three of us (guitarist, drummer and me) like the song, but she "doesn't feel it".

My feeling is that she needs to at least give it a chance. She had never heard the song before (her music background is different from a lot of what we play), so although her initial reaction is negative, she should give it her best shot and see if the song grows on her.

Her overly negative attitude threw a damper on the whole practice, and we ended early. The other guys just want to dump her. She is a very talented singer, and we sound great together. But if she is going to go all diva on us, it isn't worth it.

I volunteered to call her and try to talk some sense into her.

I understand that some songs will not work, and that people should have a little veto power. But I think she was unreasonable in not giving it a chance, with only vague reasons why she didn't like it. The more we said give it a chance, the more she dug in her heels, and started saying we weren't respecting her opinion.

It bums me out that just when we are hitting our stride, ego issues and lack of flexiblity could break apart the band (or at least send the singer packing)

SuperDuck · #2 12-12-2008, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winstonthecat

It bums me out that just when we are hitting our stride, ego issues and lack of flexiblity could break apart the band (or at least send the singer packing)

Sounds like almost every band I've ever been a part of!

dustdbass6 · #3 12-12-2008, 10:49 PM

What sucks is that if the singer isn't into it, an audience will be able to tell and she'll just end up making the song suck anyway. Too bad she can't give it shot. Where do you guys play in the Bay?

MysticMichael · #4 12-12-2008, 10:54 PM

This kind of thing is par for the course among performers - of all types. If you guys haven't already settled upon some reasonable ground rules for adopting of new material - before this whole enterprise even got going - you should have. If you have a leader, then it's simple: What the leader says, goes. End of discussion. If you're a democracy, then it becomes more complex - and potentially more political.

It's the vacuum created when such policies aren't addressed very early in the game that leads to people making different private assumptions - which sooner or later become manifest in disputes such as this. One very, very good reason to be both far-sighted and proactive...

MM

winstonthecat · #5 12-12-2008, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperDuck

Sounds like almost every band I've ever been a part of!

I know. I've been reading all the band drama posts here at TB, and always thinking to myself how lucky I was not to be immersed in that. Well, it seems to be universal.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by dustdbass6

What sucks is that if the singer isn't into it, an audience will be able to tell and she'll just end up making the song suck anyway. Too bad she can't give it shot. Where do you guys play in the Bay?

I think part of being a performer is to give it your all even if you are less than inspired. I know that there are songs in our set list that aren't our favorites, but I try my hardest to but my best effort into each one.

We play in the Peninsula area, Redwood City, Woodside, San Jose. We're gigging about once a month, which for us is about right. Ideally maybe three times every two months would be nice.

vlad335 · #6 12-12-2008, 11:00 PM

So what you are saying is you guys are going to let your band go down the tubes over one cover tune?

Did you ever consider there might be a valid reason (to her) why she doesn't want to do the tune. For instance, there is a song that reminds me of my brother who died last year. Aint no way I am covering that song. I might not want to say exactly why if it comes up.

Unless you guys have a half dozen great singers breaking your door down to get into your band, you need to drop the song.

Elemetal · #7 12-12-2008, 11:02 PM

Put yourself in her shoes too. I mean she should probably give it a chance but I've been in situations where I refuse to play a song just beacuse thats now what I'm about; also I kind of ran show anyway and everyone was expendable but me. But really if you were adamently(sorry for spelling) about not playing a song theres no way it's going to be played period. I say don't make things worse and just screw it. If you want to start a new group to play that song and others like it then do it but if it's going good the way it is don't ruin the group as it is over 1 song. Just play in 2 groups! More fun. Even so you could get joint gigs between your groups. Thats fun too and you get paid and you get to play 2x the amount.

Joe Kyle · #8 12-12-2008, 11:04 PM

i'm in a similar situation- I play a wide array of music, while our guitarist only plays SRV inspired blues. The drummer and i have played in several bands together, but playing with musicians out of state and going to school full time(especially a school that doesnt let you drive unless you have 64 credits under your belt) seems to put a stop to any progress we make with other bands.

The solution to our problems has been staying with our band, playing classic rock covers, because thats what bars/places around here will pay to see. Until i get out of school or find a more dedicated group of musicians in my age group, im kinda screwed, as i cant stop everything to travel 45 minutes home to get a car, then another hour to a practice out of state.

winstonthecat · #9 12-12-2008, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vlad335

So what you are saying is you guys are going to let your band go down the tubes over one cover tune?

Did you ever consider there might be a valid reason (to her) why she doesn't want to do the tune. For instance, there is a song that reminds me of my brother who died last year. Aint no way I am covering that song.

Unless you guys have a half dozen great singers breaking your door down to get into your band, you need to drop the song.

The point is that she isn't stating what I consider a valid reason. It's more the total inflexibility without any stated reason. To say "I just don't feel it" about a song you've heard once isn't really giving the song a chance. She doesn't bring any new songs to the band, yet gets all inflexible when other songs are suggested.

Being the usual level-headed person that we bass players are, I'm going to try to salvage the situation. I would prefer that we keep playing together, but it is going to take a different level of commitment and flexibility. We'll see if we can pull it off.

1954bassman · #10 12-12-2008, 11:31 PM

No song should be one.

vlad335 · #11 12-12-2008, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winstonthecat

The point is that she isn't stating what I consider a valid reason. It's more the total inflexibility without any stated reason. To say "I just don't feel it" about a song you've heard once isn't really giving the song a chance. She doesn't bring any new songs to the band, yet gets all inflexible when other songs are suggested.

You didn't get what I was saying. She said she isn't "feeling it" but that might not be the whole truth.

Another example. I played in a cover band where a guitar player seemed completely unreasonable about covering some tunes. He wouldn't learn them and made excuses and overall just held things up. One was Possum Kingdom and another was from Depeche Mode. Turned out he didn't want to cover a song that used the Lord's name. Hey, that's cool. He wasn't overtly religous or anything it was just a personal conviction and once he admitted it we were OK with it. BTW, that was the best band I was ever in.

I have been playing in bands on and off for 30 years and one thing I learned in that time is it's give and take. (Don't take this as a lecture.) In my current project if our singer doesn't want to sing something thats it, end of story. She does this very rarely I might add. In one instance when we did force something the song sucked anyway because of the vibe that was created.

crow01 · #12 12-12-2008, 11:48 PM

i would say play the song different to see if she likes. although at the expense of someone throwing a bottle of beer at you at the bar. for some reason if a cover band doesn't play the song exactly people get upset, even more drunk people.

maybe the vocals are out of her range? or it's just too extreme, say megadeth or something.

is she someone to negotiate with? or is she an "i refuse no matter what".

if it's the 2nd, this thing ain't going to last a long time. cause you want to also play songs that you like, then clashing with her every time she doesn't like a song. A pain i have seen it.

otherwise just work your magic of persuasion.

Stumbo · #13 12-12-2008, 11:59 PM

Time for a band meeting. How are you guys going to decide which songs to play?

Ask her how the band should be deciding on songs?

Or come up with 10 other songs and vote on them. Then see what she says about those songs. I mean, is she a control freak? Has she vetoed songs before?

Is the song popular with the crowds you play for? If so, it's not a good business decision to not play it.

rokkitt · #14 12-13-2008, 12:08 AM

tru tru tru

so, what is the name of the song~

al

scorpionldr · #15 12-13-2008, 01:29 AM

Unless your playing utter trash, I don't think it's right to have a music snob in. Dampers everything, makes it all about "well this is what I'm comfortable with", not "well this is a good tune, it could use a touchup from my talents tho". I agree with the rest of your band.

T-Bird · #16 12-13-2008, 02:12 AM

Hi.

The way I see it, being a bit younger and inexperienced than You: If no-one else can/will/like to sing that tune, and the lead singer won't, it's not played.

The fact that I would sing the tunes our last singer "didn't feel like singing" didn't go very well with him, and fortunately he split. Now we have the drummers GF singing and she's WAY better in every aspect

.

We all suck up and do play tunes we don't like to, but do we really have to?

A NO is a NO in our band, for our drummer it's great songs like "Stairway To Heaven", for me anything Elvis, not that he wrote much himself anyway.
We also have this "no questions asked" policy, if someone flat out refuses, we don't endlessly bug them about why they will or why they won't.

If the band is supposed to be fun, it stays fun only when everyone plays along, even if it means rejecting songs that the other members would like to play.

As the previous posters pointed out, I too feel that there's something Your singer hasn't told you. I'd respect her wishes. Unless of course You dudes can get a hotter one singing for you

.

Just my 0.02€
Sam

Edit:Yeah, what tune are we talking about?

bggeezer · #17 12-13-2008, 02:35 AM

In my opinion a cover band has to keep tweaking the set. Add a new one every couple of weeks, back-burner some. Different sets for different venues, change the order etc.

In my last band we each had power of veto, and we didn't overly debate the point either. All 3 of us said no to various covers from time to time. Sometimes we tried the song out before discovering it didn't work for us, sometimes it was "no" straight off the bat. You can ask "why?" once, i think. But if its no for that person, you have to respect that: Its only a cover.

HOWEVER; If she KEEPS saying no, and wont even try any new stuff at all, then you got a diva and the big E is calling.

PS. The only time this is different is in a tribute band. I mean in my current band, A Sabbath tribute, we HAVE to do "Black Sabbath", AND we have to Open With it. AND we have to use sound effects. Its a real bugger from a dynamics point of view! Its very hard to put your mark on a song like THAT!

Fajah · #18 12-13-2008, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winstonthecat

So my main cover band is starting to get consistent gigs, and receiving good crowd reactions when we play. Everyone is having fun and getting along. Until.......

I understand that some songs will not work, and that people should have a little veto power. But I think she was unreasonable in not giving it a chance, with only vague reasons why she didn't like it. The more we said give it a chance, the more she dug in her heels, and started saying we weren't respecting her opinion.

You've stated that "Everyone is having fun and getting along" and and your "receiving good crowd reaction". These are two great things to happen to a band. We run up against the same thing with our singer from time to time, but we put up with it because he's a good friend, has a terrific voice, and the crowd likes his singing. So we choose to handle these situations in a couple different ways;

We put the tune in question on the side and don't bother arguing about at that moment. There's too many other tunes to practice. But at our next rehearsal, while our singer is getting his act together (mic check etc.), one of us we'll launch into the tune as a casual short jam and warm up, each time slightly changing the arrangement. It's all on the fly. After a couple of rehearsals doing this, 95% of the time, our singer gets into it and asks if we have the lyrics.

The other 5% of time, if he's really stubborn, we wait until he wants to introduce and sing a tune REAL bad, one that we don't particularly care for. We appease him under the following conditions;

1) We can play around with the arrangement to make it interesting for the band to play.

2) He agrees to sing the tune that's been sitting on the sidelines that we really want to play.

It's worked out very well so far and in the end, everybody's happy.

tycobb73 · #19 12-13-2008, 06:04 AM

I hate Shania Twain, I mean effen hate the music. She has no emotion in her voice and Lang overproduces everything he's ever done so that its as stale as a cardboard box. But a band member brought up Feel Like A Women. I couldn't argue with it because I knew it fit in right with what we were doing and would get a crowd reaction. So I sucked it up and learned it. If this is the case with the song you're talking about, your singer should too.

LilMissStrange · #20 12-13-2008, 11:20 PM

I dont think you should disband over ONE song. Yeah maybe she should have at least tried it to see if it would grow on her, but move on. Dont sweat this one song. And who's to say "Im just not feeling it" isnt a valid reason? As some have noted, maybe there's a deeper reason, but sometimes if you just dont like the song, you dont like the song. Its hard to compromise when a band does cover songs. Some may have never heard it, some may not like it. In my previous bands, if we ALL didnt agree on a song, it was tossed, end of story. Some were flatly refused off the bat, others we tried but they didnt work out. Theres plenty of songs out there that you can agree on. Its probably best to not keep hounding her about it, because naturally she will refuse even more.
Was it just this once? Unless she does this all the time, and acts like a drama queen about it, then theres gonna be a problem if shes difficult to work with.