Band split

Warfender · #1 02-24-2011, 05:29 PM

Hey guys, I want some feedback from all of you. I'm in several bands and have been for years. Maybe I'm a nice guy, but I do 90% of the booking and don't take a cut. I know most bookers and band leaders take 10-15%. I have a budget PA system and have used in the past, but a member in most of my bands has a better system. Should he take part of tips, etc for using his equipment and such? If so it seems funny since everyone brings their own equipment in part and doesn't charge anything. Maybe I'm greedy..muhahahaha but shouldn't everyone charge for their equipment...lol I forfiet thousands a year in bookings compensation and think it is wierd this came up. He is also the drummer so brings a lot of stuff but we all load and unload it including the drums...just how I've always been taught is to be a team.

Sorry so long.

armywalaby · #2 02-24-2011, 07:00 PM

Sounds like crap to me. We all accept roles in the band. We all identify what we expect from the beginning. But, contracts can always be re-negotiated. I personally think it's more about a team effort. My motivation to book more gigs is to get more money yeah, but not to try to get paid more money so I can scrape more for myself because I thought I did more than everybody else.

ggunn · #3 02-25-2011, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warfender

Hey guys, I want some feedback from all of you. I'm in several bands and have been for years. Maybe I'm a nice guy, but I do 90% of the booking and don't take a cut. I know most bookers and band leaders take 10-15%. I have a budget PA system and have used in the past, but a member in most of my bands has a better system. Should he take part of tips, etc for using his equipment and such? If so it seems funny since everyone brings their own equipment in part and doesn't charge anything. Maybe I'm greedy..muhahahaha but shouldn't everyone charge for their equipment...lol I forfiet thousands a year in bookings compensation and think it is wierd this came up. He is also the drummer so brings a lot of stuff but we all load and unload it including the drums...just how I've always been taught is to be a team.

Sorry so long.

This is a common problem and it comes up in most bands when a little money starts coming in. Should Steve get gas money because he has to drive 20 miles to rehearsal? Should John get less money from gigs because he only has his trumpet to carry and never helps set up or tear down? Should George get more of the take because we are using his mics and stands? If you are going to do that sort of thing, you've got to do all of it. It's unfair to do it for/to one guy and not the rest.

My feeling is this: As long as the money is symbolic and doesn't make any real difference in anybody's lives, then consider it a wash and split th take evenly. Once you start nickel and diming the small amount of money on the table, the headache involved in keeping track of it all gets to be a big deal, people start scrabbling over pennies, and it ends up causing far more trouble than it solves.

If your bandmate insists on getting "rent" for his gear, tell him to leave it at home and rent what you need from a third party, splitting the rental cost evenly.

Frankjohnson · #4 02-25-2011, 06:43 AM

I am in a almost same situation. I book 98% of the work, provide the PA etc.

In my situation, about 90 % of the gigs are all an even split. I usually don't take a bigger cut if its a typical gig. If its a new one and we get more than expected I usually take a one time "whatever is extra" cut to offset time for booking, calls, making cds, posters, emailing the gigs, facebooking, etc. but also the actual time wasted to get this one. The next one, I cut it equal. Maybe not right for everyone, but how I do it. I also sometimes, get the tip bucket, if it is appropriate for recent efforts. In the past, the drummer hauled PA, and I ALWAYS gave him gas money, AND portion of tips over split if it was a good amount, or the whole thing if it was $20 or under.

No one else should have gotten extra, nor Did I entertain it. If someone else books a gig (2 in 2.5 years).....then they should handle it similar. I would hope to not get screwed by a band member, and do not feel that I am doing them wrong.

The final answer is.....
do what you think you can live with, and don't allow anyone to step on you getting there. Sometimes, you have to give a little, be willing to, because sometimes, you have to ask the guys to do the same.

Just my thoughts

Oh....and if someone is in a bad spot, we dont' mind throwing 10-20 per man to him either. It happens. Its not a loan - its just their turn. never is it ALWAYS the same for each of us. Its good to know we have each others backs.

Frankjohnson · #5 02-25-2011, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ggunn

If your bandmate insists on getting "rent" for his gear, tell him to leave it at home and rent what you need from a third party, splitting the rental cost evenly.

I missed that when I read through...very nice -
your right - everyone brings something, does something, or you really don't need them. You could hire a player if that was the situation.

Warfender · #6 02-25-2011, 09:21 AM

Thx for the replys guys...that pretty much validates my thoughts. thx for anyone elses responses in advance.

hrodbert696 · #7 02-26-2011, 05:45 AM

Everybody contributes what gear they have to make the band work. If you go doing the calculations, no doubt some people have more expensive gear and some people have less expensive. But the bottom line is that it's THEIR GEAR that they bought for THEMSELVES. So no, I don't think there's any reason for people to "charge" the band or claim a bigger cut just because one has sunk more money into their gear than someone else.

If the band forms and it emerges that no one has a PA or some other piece of essential gear, then there is a choice; either a band member buys it and it is their personal property, or the band buys it out of common funds and owns it in common (which gets thorny if the band breaks up, someone leaves or a new member joins). Individual pays = individual owns, band pays = band owns. You can't have it as band pays - individual owns, which is what "renting" your gear to the band amounts to. Is the drummer going to "rent" his drums to the band, and if so, at what rate? It's all gear that makes for the total band sound. On another thread, I've seen a useful suggestion that for a multi-piece item like a PA, each band member could buy a piece of the whole, so that one guy owns the mixer board, one guy owns the monitors, one guy owns the microphones and cables, etc. That keeps the ownership clear in the event of changing membership or band breakup.

Whether to give extra compensation to a band member who books gigs is up to the band, and should be agreed on ahead of time. I can see a benefit to saying the one who books the gig gets the first 10% and the rest is divided equally, just to give everyone a motivation to pound the pavement a little. But you can't go booking gigs and then spring it on the band afterward that you expect an extra cut for it.

Marko5657 · #8 02-26-2011, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ggunn

This is a common problem and it comes up in most bands when a little money starts coming in. Should Steve get gas money because he has to drive 20 miles to rehearsal? Should John get less money from gigs because he only has his trumpet to carry and never helps set up or tear down? Should George get more of the take because we are using his mics and stands? If you are going to do that sort of thing, you've got to do all of it. It's unfair to do it for/to one guy and not the rest.

My feeling is this: As long as the money is symbolic and doesn't make any real difference in anybody's lives, then consider it a wash and split th take evenly. Once you start nickel and diming the small amount of money on the table, the headache involved in keeping track of it all gets to be a big deal, people start scrabbling over pennies, and it ends up causing far more trouble than it solves.

If your bandmate insists on getting "rent" for his gear, tell him to leave it at home and rent what you need from a third party, splitting the rental cost evenly.

A big +1 to this…

Although I would have a problem with a member not helping with load in/out. Everyone should help there.

Lemoore-on · #9 02-26-2011, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warfender

He is also the drummer so brings a lot of stuff but we all load and unload it including the drums...just how I've always been taught is to be a team.Sorry so long.

The minute he gets more cut for bringing the PA is the minute he stops getting help loading in and out & you guys stop being a team. Then you start having to itemize every little thing and people start bickering over crap.

If you're small time just keep it simple.

Marko5657 · #10 02-26-2011, 11:39 AM

Say a main speaker needs repair, or the plates for the band trailer become due- who should pay for that?

Assuming these are used specifically for the band.

Scatterblak · #11 02-26-2011, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warfender

Hey guys, I want some feedback from all of you. I'm in several bands and have been for years. Maybe I'm a nice guy, but I do 90% of the booking and don't take a cut. I know most bookers and band leaders take 10-15%. I have a budget PA system and have used in the past, but a member in most of my bands has a better system. Should he take part of tips, etc for using his equipment and such? If so it seems funny since everyone brings their own equipment in part and doesn't charge anything. Maybe I'm greedy..muhahahaha but shouldn't everyone charge for their equipment...lol I forfiet thousands a year in bookings compensation and think it is wierd this came up. He is also the drummer so brings a lot of stuff but we all load and unload it including the drums...just how I've always been taught is to be a team.

Sorry so long.

We went through this as well; we came to the conclusion that everyone in the band brings every resource they have - skills on the phone, gear, vehicles, computer/web dev skills, etc - to the project, and everyone pushes it all as hard as they can. I'm sure my guitarist (who owns the studio) would like to make a couple of bucks for the time we spend rehearsing in his main room (Sunday evening, every week). If we paid him for that time, or paid me for the time I spend dealing with agents and venues, should we also pay the keyboardist for web development? The drummer for cleaning up the video for the EPK?

I just couldn't find a graceful way to make it work. We all do all we can, we bring all we can to the project, and we split any income 6+1 ways (everyone gets an equal share, and a share into the band fund). Before we leave, everyone gets a spreadsheet with the $$ breakouts on it, and when we get back, everyone gets the same sheet reconciled. It may not work for you guys, but it works for us - there's soooo much that has to be done, you know?

onosson · #12 02-26-2011, 12:12 PM

My own personal take on this...

I've been in two long-term bands, one being an original act that eventually signed to a major label, the other a being a tribute act.

For the original act (now largely defunct), we always split everything evenly, and didn't divvy up extra money for someone contributing their time or gear. However, we did cover expenses like phone bills for booking, etc. We would also put money aside for recording, pressing cds, etc. Later we got an agent and manager and they took 10-15%, as things progressed. For an original act, keeping it all fair and square between band members goes a loooong way.

For the tribute act, our drummer does all the booking, and does a great job of it, so he gets a commission (he varies the rate, sometimes as little as 5 or 3% depending on the show). At one point he and I bought a small P.A. together, and we would take something extra ($20-25 per night usually) off the top and split it amongst ourselves - I would also point out that he and I are the only "original" members in this group from starting it 8 years ago. We have at times also contributed use of our own personal vehicles as tour vehicles for this band - beyond paying the gas receipts, we always add on a per-day rate for the vehicle (less than a rental van, but covers wear and tear). For a "project band" like this, I find this a much more agreeable way to manage things overall.

ggunn · #13 02-26-2011, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marko5657

Say a main speaker needs repair, or the plates for the band trailer become due- who should pay for that?

Assuming these are used specifically for the band.

If the band blew the speaker, the band should fix it. The trailer plates are a bit different; the owner of the trailer is legally responsible for that, but if the band wants to pass the hat for it, that's OK.

Marko5657 · #14 02-26-2011, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ggunn

If the band blew the speaker, the band should fix it. The trailer plates are a bit different; the owner of the trailer is legally responsible for that, but if the band wants to pass the hat for it, that's OK.

I did mention that the trailer was used exclusively for the band.

I spent over $2800 on ours, brand new, and it is used exclusively to house the PA, guitar rigs, drums, lights, etc. So I guess it’s only fair that I pay buy the plates, and new tires when it needs them, etc.

I guess I could have let everyone haul their own stuff, eh?

As they say, no good deed goes unpunished, eh?

Well, I’m off to the gig, 8:30 start.

SpecialBlender · #15 02-27-2011, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ggunn

If the band blew the speaker, the band should fix it. The trailer plates are a bit different; the owner of the trailer is legally responsible for that, but if the band wants to pass the hat for it, that's OK.

My last band were together for 20+ years and gig money was split evenly. 3 of the members bought a trailer to store/haul gear. It was to everyone's benefit to not have to load/unload the gear to get to/from the gig. Insurance and any repairs to it came off the top of the next gig.

For equipment repairs everyone was responsible for their own gear but any repairs to gear used by all the band (PA, mike/speaker cords and lights) came off the top as well.

Warfender · #16 02-28-2011, 05:44 PM

RGeat concensus here guys and I'm so glad again that everyone feels the same way to Validate my thoughts and past 10 years of bands and gigging.

As for the trailer, no it isn't for the band, itis plastered with his company studio name and is used for all sorts of stuff he does.

We play in a couple bands together and he plays in others accosionally, so if a piece of gear breaks due to normal use, I don't think any particular band itself is responsible since so many people use it. Funny thing is he never asks anyone if they have gear to bring which many do.

It came up several weeks ago and pretty much what has been discuss on here is what we told him.

MNAirHead · #17 02-28-2011, 06:28 PM

IF I'm reading the OP correctly...

the "everyone contributes" is NOT the way it normally happens.

The issue is that in most bands someone does most of the work and nets the least amount of the reward.

Issue 2 is that you really can't correct mid stream. I discontinued with a band last year due to this single reason. Seriously 1/2 the band was me (booking, contracts, PA, warenhouse, image, web, logo)

When starting over .. I now have a band page that lays out basic expectations etc...

I have an open book policy.. I put up the intial money to get it going... When someone books, they get 15%... mutual expenses (prizes etc) are taken out next.. Rest are split.

The PA is my biggest bummer.. it's expensive, takes time, is huge, etc...

Marko5657 · #18 02-28-2011, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

...

Issue 2 is that you really can't correct mid stream. I discontinued with a band last year due to this single reason. Seriously 1/2 the band was me (booking, contracts, PA, warenhouse, image, web, logo)

...

Why can’t things change mid stream?

“Hey, fellas, I don’t think it’s fair that I’ve been contributing this extra work/expense with no compensation. I think whoever does this should get $x, so I could do it for that, or if anyone else wants to do it, that’s cool with me.”