Band trying to change the game

UncleJimmy · #1 09-09-2011, 12:32 PM

Hey there TB'ers. I'm a little peeved about a discussion I had with the bandleader at rehearsal last night and would like your thoughts.

I joined this band 5 months ago. Classic and 90's rock covers. All the players are quite good, the band sounds awesome. They were together for about a year before I came along, I'm the new guy. I was brought in by the lead guitar/leader of the band because I had played in a project with him years ago. Things clicked pretty well, I've learned all of their material (mostly in the first month) and now we're up to 35 songs
(about 3 hours) all of which sound pretty darn good. We have 3.5 hour scheduled rehersals once a week at the bandleader's place. They go pretty smooth and we get a lot accomplished. All is good.

I am a strong believer in learning material on your own time. It's been a tough few months since I'm the one playing catch up, but I knew this going in and I have not complained. I learn the stuff and show up ready to rehearse. So far, we've played 3 gigs (a little less than originally promised) , all of which went pretty well.

On my first audition, I was very open and clearly stated my position. My goal is to get up to speed and get out gigging to make some cash. I can rehearse once a week , gig 2-4 times a month. I will, when time allows and it's needed, find another day to rehearse. Everyone was in agreement. I feel I was very courteous and professional and did not lead anyone on in any way. We have thrown in extra practices here and there to get up to speed and get ready for gigs. I do everything I can to bend to the situation. I have also set up and maintain a mailing list,made business cards for the band members, made stickers and T-shirts, all at my expense until the cost is re-couped by selling the merch. I do this to promote the band. I don't expect to make money or mind putting out the downstroke.

So last night, I start getting pressure to rehearse twice a week. I was a little surprised since things have gone so well. I stated that I just can't commit to twice a week due to day job, family, etc,etc but will continue to do my best to throw extra practices in when warranted or if a gig is coming up. (by the way, this was after our second night of practice this week-gig Saturday ) The pressure continues. I get told that it's best for the guitarist's hand if he can practice more than once a week so he's loose. I respond with " there's nothing stopping you from practicing any time, the band doesn't need to be here. ( The guy is a part time guitar teacher for a living, there is no shortage of time for him to practice). I also say that after this gig, since there are no more scheduled, I don't see any reason to put in extra time.(regular rehearsal will continue) Once we get more booked, I'll do what I can as I always have. The response is that there's even more reason to rehearse when nothing is scheduled so we stay on top of things. It went on in this vain for a while until the conversation began to go in a loop. I ended by saying " look, I was very clear of what my availablity was on day one. We all agreed. I don't want this to become a situation where I am made to feel guilty for doing exactly what I said I would do."

It was left at that. We have a gig Saturday. I hope that no bad vibes are carried over. I'm very frustrated that it's going this way. I pride myself on being up front, professional and performing as promised. I feel I've more than held up my end of the bargain.

I don't like where this is going. The band is good and has huge potential. Until now, everything has been pretty smooth. I'm nowhere near quitting or anything like that. My plan is to go about things as normal and hope that this sort of thing doesn't keep happening. I really don't want to waste any more time on this project however, if things will eventually spiral out of control.

Sorry for the long post but I really needed to get this out.

So what do you think Oh Wise members of TalkBass? I'm sure this is not new to most of you. Let's hear it!

plankspanker13 · #2 09-09-2011, 12:42 PM

Introduce your bandmates to playlist.com ASAP. It is the coverband player's best friend and tool, and great for "micro" practice, by yourself.

You could also have "mini" practice, as needed, which is defined as everyone but drums, possibly playing acoustically; the emphasis being on tightness of arrangment, and execution of changes.

Do the above, and "macro" (full band) practice is perhaps less necessary, and more productive, simultaneously. I was in one cover band that played over 100 shows together...on a mere 5 rehearsals. My methodology is thus prooven.

Sundogue · #3 09-09-2011, 12:47 PM

It happens. My guess is by gig time, no one will even be talking about it.

I understand all too well about being accountable and available, but for any band to work there just has to be respect for each band members' personal life.

It sounds more like some in the band have more free time and are jonesing for more playing time between gigs. It's understandable but that pent up frustration to play really does not get relieved by band rehearsals. That's what gigs are for.

Rehearsals should only be to get the pieces tight for gigs, unless you guys also write your own music. Then sometimes more of the give and take in a rehearsal environment is beneficial. But if you are only doing covers, there is no reason to get together except to rehearse the parts everyone learned on their own time...together.

IMO, once all the tunes are learned and you've rehearsed them I see no need for ANY rehearsals...ever. Unless you are learning new material. If everyone commits to learning the parts on their own and works on the material on their own, the whole notion of having to rehearse to "stay on top of things" sounds a bit amateurish. Are these guys still in high school?

lovechick · #4 09-09-2011, 01:10 PM

This sounds as if it's being led by the guitar player, and it sounds as if he has little else going on in his life in terms of responsibility. Over-rehearsing isn't going to solve the real issue: tell the guitarist to get his personal sh*t together and get a job.

seanm · #5 09-09-2011, 01:24 PM

I have never been in a band that wanted to rehearse twice a week

I also find it strange you would want extra practices before a gig if you have regular weekly practices. Weekly practices should be enough to keep you tight. We have done it, but only when we haven't practiced in a month

Sounds like the guitar problem has trouble being motivated to practice at home. I know it is an effort for me. I am good at learning new songs, but not practicing for the sake of practice. So I can understand how an extra rehearsal could help him.

However, that is his problem, not the bands. Stand your ground.

seanm · #6 09-09-2011, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundogue

IMO, once all the tunes are learned and you've rehearsed them I see no need for ANY rehearsals...ever. Unless you are learning new material. If everyone commits to learning the parts on their own and works on the material on their own, the whole notion of having to rehearse to "stay on top of things" sounds a bit amateurish. Are these guys still in high school?

I can't agree with this; it depends too much on the band. I have been in bands where we could not play for a month or two and still be tight when we got together. I have been in other bands where if we missed two practices we struggled.

Practicing at home only works so far unless you play the songs exactly as recorded. I wish I had a dollar for every time I learned a new song, got it down, then found the bass line as recorded was totally unusable with the band.

Nev375 · #7 09-09-2011, 01:34 PM

Don't let this upset you. Your band just wants to play more and that's a very good thing. It means they are dedicated. Consider yourself lucky you don't have the opposite problem.

You stated your case on day one. That's great. Now just continue to live up to what you said you would do. You do NOT have to feel guilty. You've done nothing wrong and have not let anyone down. Remember, no one can MAKE you feel guilt or any other emotion unless YOU permit them to. So don't.

The emotion you should let yourself feel is sympathy. It's unfortunate that your bandmates don't get to practice as often as they want. However, that's not your fault. Nor is it your problem. The situation is what it is, and their method for coping with it is their problem. Your problem is to take care of your family first and then help your band as time permits.

So when they complain to you just smile sympathetically and say "yeah, I understand. Maybe some day I'll have more time." You've already offered your suggestions. Don't bother repeating them, don't become the broken record, don't make excuses, don't become stressed. Let them figure out what to do about it.

Sundogue · #8 09-09-2011, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seanm

I can't agree with this; it depends too much on the band. I have been in bands where we could not play for a month or two and still be tight when we got together. I have been in other bands where if we missed two practices we struggled.

Practicing at home only works so far unless you play the songs exactly as recorded. I wish I had a dollar for every time I learned a new song, got it down, then found the bass line as recorded was totally unusable with the band.

Obviously every band situation will be different. But still, if you are doing covers and even improvising a lot with them, how bad do you have to be as a musician to need to rehearse the SAME songs over and over? Learn it once, play it out and be done with it. Should be a piece of cake every time after that, unless it's a complicated piece and you haven't played it as a band in a very long time.

Practice is just that. Practice...something one does on their own time. Rehearsal is for a group of people who have practiced the material (each on their own) and work on fitting those pieces together. What's to work out once it's worked out?

I call that a huge waste of time. I'd never play in a band that had to keep playing the same stuff over and over again...unless it was on gigs. I'm not at a band rehearsal to help someone else either learn or remember their parts. That's what practice is for (by one's self on their own time).

DWBass · #9 09-09-2011, 01:45 PM

I don't understand the need for so many rehearsals. Especially 3.5hr rehearsals. I'm out after 2 hours! If the guitarist needs playing time to stay 'loose', he can do that on his own! Why is he dragging everyone else into his issue?? I've been invited to join quite a few bands in my area of late and they all say they get together at least 2 or 3 times a week! I'm like 'what the heck for?' Learn the tunes, come to rehearsal to put everything together, record it, then listen to the recording on your own time. Folks have day jobs and families! I find it unreasonable to have to spend so much time rehearsing! Me personally, I'd have a chat with the guitarist and find out what his problem is. I know my reply is long winded but the subject is an annoyance for for me!

Nev375 · #10 09-09-2011, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lovechick

This sounds as if it's being led by the guitar player, and it sounds as if he has little else going on in his life in terms of responsibility. Over-rehearsing isn't going to solve the real issue: tell the guitarist to get his personal sh*t together and get a job.

While your perception is probably correct regarding the guitar player's life, I would not suggest saying that to the guitarist.

It's negatively judgmental, arrogant and almost certain to instill resentment in the guitarists head. If you can't say something nice, don't say anything. Just keep smiling.

tZer · #11 09-09-2011, 01:53 PM

This is what happens when a band uses rehearsal as their social club. When I was a teenager playing with my best friends, we practiced 5 days a week because we loved it and because it got us away from 'the rents'. But as adults and in a more professional world, TIME IS MONEY. If you show up at rehearsal unprepared, you are wasting other people's time. If this were a more pro band where you were getting paid for rehearsals, whomever showed up like that or started asking for more rehearsals to keep their own chops up would be fired on the spot.

Getting together a lot is fine if everyone really wants to and no one can say that getting more time rehearsing will hurt the show if you use that time well - but it's seriously overkill for a typical bar band doing a typical 3 - 4 set night. There's absolutely no reason at all you should "need" more than a couple rehearsals per MONTH. Per week? Come on, Eddie Van Halen... Get your stuff together on your time. Don't convene the entire band just so you can get up enough gumption to learn your stuff... That's just utter BS.

tZer · #12 09-09-2011, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nev375

While your perception is probably correct regarding the guitar player's life, I would not suggest saying that to the guitarist.

It's negatively judgmental, arrogant and almost certain to instill resentment in the guitarists head. If you can't say something nice, don't say anything. Just keep smiling.

The OP could choose to phrase it gently, but the point needs to be made and understood. Learn your part on YOUR time. Show up to rehearsal ready. If you can't do that, find another band.

Nothing says 'rank amateur' more than "Hey, guys... Let's get together a LOT so I can keep my chops up..." - Utter bunk.

DWBass · #13 09-09-2011, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seanm

I have been in other bands where if we missed two practices we struggled.

Honestly, this doesn't speak much for the musician's skills. And probably not practicing at home either. Just being honest. I joined a band back in March and they called out tunes I haven't played in more than 25 years. I still knew them and played them as if I played them the day before. But that's me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by seanm

Practicing at home only works so far unless you play the songs exactly as recorded. I wish I had a dollar for every time I learned a new song, got it down, then found the bass line as recorded was totally unusable with the band.

Learning parameters should be set beforehand. Don't have me learn a song and then when I get to rehearsal, it's either in a different key or the entire groove and essense has been changed! I'm pretty adaptable but a lot of musicians are not! Make it clear exactly what is going on. Be a good bandleader!

Marko5657 · #14 09-09-2011, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWBass

...

Learn the tunes, come to rehearsal to put everything together, record it, then listen to the recording on your own time...

Exactly what we do, and it works out great.

electracoyote · #15 09-09-2011, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UncleJimmy

My plan is to go about things as normal and hope that this sort of thing doesn't keep happening. I really don't want to waste any more time on this project however, if things will eventually spiral out of control.

This.

Be kind, courteous, upbeat, and positive. No mentioning this little wrinkle (for that's all it is). With any luck, they will see how reasonable you've been, decide you're a good catch, and it will blow over.

IMHO, when you're in a band that is up to speed and running along pretty smoothly, and you are a busy adult with job, family, etc., productive once weekly rehearsals are enough.

jimc · #16 09-09-2011, 02:09 PM

I was in a band once where the guitarist wanted to schedule extra rehearsals to 'work on' his solos.

Didn't end well

RustyAxe · #17 09-09-2011, 02:25 PM

It seems that over-rehearsing and members not practicing between rehearsals (yes, there's a difference between rehearse and practice!) is a common problem with many bands. It's never a problem for bands and orchestras that PAY for rehearsals. Why? If don't show up thoroughly practiced and ready to work you're fired. Period. In these groups time REALLY IS money.

Big John66 · #18 09-09-2011, 02:30 PM

Man this sounds familiar. In my case, it turned out to be a control issue on the part of the lead singer and his best buddy the guitar player who always complained that we weren't "tight".

The drummer and I have a business together which takes up at least 60 hours a week. Singer and guitar player stared out with the "just once a week" thing, supposedly until we started gigging. My thought was, once the gigs start we don't need once a week. However, I was WRONG!

After a few discussions about this subject, I was told by singer (who works hourly at Home Depot) and guitarist (who works part time delivering auto parts) the we should devote more time to rehearsal and less time to our shared business.

You can guess how that talk ended up. Our last gig together was July 4th. During load out, we were informed that since the band wasn't our first priority, singer and guitarist were leaving. They had another bassist and drummer lined up who could rehearse constantly.

We found other players and have already played 3 gigs. Things are going great. Singer and guitarist are still rehearsing and haven't gigged yet.

UncleJimmy · #19 09-09-2011, 02:36 PM

Thanks for all the replies. I agree with what most folks are saying. I'm not sure what we are acheiving by all the extra rehearsals. The guitar player has a pretty healthy ego and likes to be in charge. I've never had a problem with that because in my last several projects I was in charge and the driving force. It can be exhausting. In any case, he may be flexing his muscles to try to get me to fall in line with the other members.

I think the singer and drummer have gone through way too many band failures and are desperate to keep one that sounds good working, so they never challenge him. I've gone out of my way to just show up and play my parts. If it really isn't working, I'll say so in a calm, constructive manner. I assume because it's a new thing for him to be presented with resistance, this may be the pushback. It's clearly ridiculous to say that he needs rehearsal to keep his hands loose since he doesn't work unless he's giving guitar lessons. I'd say the lessons take no more than 10 hours a week. Should be plenty of time.

It's dissapointing because these are not young guys or beginners. I would expect a higher level of professionalism and some understanding of personal time. I don't want to be ignorant or confrontational but although music is a high priority for me, it's not the only priority. If I can't do the other things in life that are important, the one that's forcing the choice is gonna go.

Thanks everyone. I feel better now

Stingray5 · #20 09-09-2011, 02:38 PM

If more playing time is needed, don't add rehearsals, BOOK MORE GIGS. The goal should be to reduce rehearsal time and increase paid playing situations. If the musicians are proficient enough then there should never be an issue learning the material and even eventually showing up and playing it together for the first time at a gig. I know it's possible, this is what my band does

You joined the band 5 months ago and have only played 3 shows. What the heck are you rehearsing for?! You said you are available for up to 4 gigs per month, so now might be the right time to remind them of this. Instead of adding a second rehearsal each week, aim for a gig once per weekend and you'll never need more than one rehearsal, and can even sometimes skip that.