Bands where members have different agendas

[Jared Lash]

Hmm, I didn't see myself starting one of these rant/calls for advice threads, but here goes (in the briefest fashion possible):

I currently play in a RHCP tribute band. The guitarist (22), drummer (28 or 29) and I (31) have played together for three years now through a couple different iterations. We used to do a mix of covers and originals but songwriting as a trio proved cantankerous so we reformed in this form to eliminate that issue and because the RHCP songs in our old setlist were the most fun for us to play. We brought in a singer (28) that we'd worked with before and have been practicing and sporadically gigging since about February.

And we are good musically. Everything is pretty spot on and we've got nothing but compliments when we play out. Personally, the guitarist is like a little brother to me and we both really like our singer a lot though we don't hang out that often outside of practice/gigs. None of us really get along with our drummer. He's not a complete a-hole, but he has a-hole tendencies and is pretty selfish in many respects. But again, we can be civil and he's a talented guy. Not to mention we practice at his house and he owns the PA & monitors. We all drive a fair distance to get there (20 mins for the guitarist, 40 each for the singer and I)

I'm not keeping this as brief as I wanted, but here's the crux of the issue. Our drummer stopped working for his Dad in January doing housing development and now does freelance contracting, sound work and plays with two other bands to make ends meet. He's now completely focused on paying gigs for us to the extent that he asked us to drive over an hour and a half this Thursday (3.5 hours round trip) for a two hour gig that paid $150 total. His rationale was that if we get asked back we'd get paid more the next time.

The other three of us don't need to gig to supplement our income. We want to have a regular practice schedule (which he moves for his other bands and two weeks ago forgot completely because he went camping) and gig on Friday & Saturday nights and possibly Sunday afternoons.

I just don't see how a band can function if people can't agree on the basic reasons to play music together. Our drummer has stated that he doesn't care if we get along and I just feel like at this point in my life I don't want to spend this much time with someone I don't enjoy being around.

The other shoe dropped this afternoon when our singer texted us to say he was quitting. Our drummer called him and now I guess we're going to try to get together to see if we can work this out. I think his thought process is that we owe it to him to gig and make some money after all the time invested.

Who is being unreasonable here? Or is it simply that having different agendas doesn't work?

I welcome any advice, though to be honest I just felt like venting a bit. It's been a frustrating day.

[ric1312]

Sounds like the drummer may be freaking out a little about making money since he lost/quit his day job. Sounds like he's being a little unreasonably and trying to turn one of his projects into a working band without being straight about it to the rest of the band.

I would sit down with him and talk it out. A good band is hard to find. So, letting a musically sound band fall apart just because one guy is having an episode is a little pre mature. If you give him a talking too and a little time he may wise up.

IMO a RHCP tribute band wouldn't really be a huge money maker as far as tribute acts, so he may be pushing it.
Never been in tribute band myself, but the guys I know who make money gigging are either doing a 80's hairmetal tribute or a mix of old covers you hear on the jukebox, like journey and styx. And the only reason they make money is because they get paid by contract, not the door, and play out A LOT, like so much it's a job and not even fun anymore.

[Jared Lash]

Originally Posted by ric1312

IMO a RHCP tribute band wouldn't really be a huge money maker as far as tribute acts, so he may be pushing it.
Never been in tribute band myself, but the guys I know who make money gigging are either doing a 80's hairmetal tribute or a mix of old covers you hear on the jukebox, like journey and styx. And the only reason they make money is because they get paid by contract, not the door, and play out A LOT, like so much it's a job and not even fun anymore.

This is all largely true. I don't know what constitutes being a "huge money maker" but he's convinced he can get us booked at local casinos, festivals etc for $600-$1000. The rest of us think that would be great, but again it's not our prime motivation. If we can gig for $300-$400 three or more times a month to pay for gas money and a bit extra we'd be fine. The three of us just want to play out and have fun. We chose RHCP because the songs were fun to play and it gave us an excuse to have a goofy live show.

But your last comment is the direction he seems to want to head. Despite the time we spend learning/rehearsing songs (and we nail them) not to mention driving to his house every week for practice, he's telling us now that we "need to get serious".

[CincyBassMan]

Well, different agendas can work but everyone must be flexible. I believe your drumtard has decided to change the rules and is doing this all on his own for his own reasons and expects you'all to follow...
He owns the rehersal space, the PA and needs income. The rest of you just want to have fun and play...you start to see where this is going.

This all can still work out, BUT, only if your drumtard backs off and agrees to be flexible. I won't hold my breath 'tho...

My $0.02, Russ

[invader3k]

Time for a serious band meeting. If you guys can't all get on the same page, maybe it's time for you guys to drop the drummer and find someone who matches up with your goals a bit more.

[SBassman]

Being on the same page is really important.
For the music as well as for actually enjoying yourselves.

If everyone but the drummer is on the same page,
I'd discuss it with the drummer, and if he can accept this,
give him a chance to get back in sync with the rest of you.

If that doesn't work out, it's time to find another drummer.

[jgroh]

Sorry but IMO, this wont work with this drummer. He needs money and is motivated by that. The rest of you guys are not, so he will more likely to drive to less than great gigs than you guys will because he needs it. I just think that you need to find another drummer that has a full time job and is on the same page as you or you will continue to deal with this guy and his other band commitments and do anything for a buck attitude. Its not easy but IMO you need to find another drummer.

[spade2you]

Two words (very feared): band meeting.

[Jared Lash]

Originally Posted by spade2you

Two words (very feared): band meeting.

Ain't that the truth.

Thanks for all the responses so far. So far they seem to mirror my own back and forth as to whether to try to make this work or move on.

I'm willing to compromise, but not to the extent he seems to need. We'll see.

[spade2you]

Originally Posted by TheBigO

I'm willing to compromise, but not to the extent he seems to need. We'll see.

Compromise is a key word, which proves you're smart....part of why I like ya! Although, I suspect that this will be more of a common sense lesson for your drummer.

[SBassman]

I lived through a similar not-everyone-on-the-same-page situation a year and a half ago, and it became a major factor in me moving on from a very successful working band.

The concept for the band was always supposed to be - fun/enjoyment first, bucks second.

Then, out of the blue, we got this regular gig. The good news - they were booking us twice a month for their venue. The bad news - the venue is in the middle of nowhere, it's a bar inside a golf country club, no one on the planet knew the bar actually ran on weekend nights, and a typical crowd was - about 10 people. Including staff.

Now, I can do that for many gigs. But, the bandleader pretty much took that as a reason to not book anywhere else. All our eggs were in this one very lame basket. We played that place, and almost only that place, exclusively for about 8 months. Along the way, I tried to indicate that this is a good way to run the band into the ground. The band leader didn't care. It was a gig in hand, so he had no motivation to do anything else. The common joke was: "just think of it as getting paid to rehearse." Well, I didn't get the joke. I like to gig, but at least Some of the time, I need it to be a Real gig with life, not this crap where essentially we played for the amusement of the small staff.

By the end of it, rather than Loving getting out to gig, I was dreading it. It wasn't going to change, and it eventually became a big factor in me moving on.

[invader3k]

Also, I don't get that mentality your drummer has of doing a gig that requires 3 and a half hours of driving for about $50.00 a man (assuming an even three way split). You figure you're going to blow at least a third of that on gas, if you're all driving separate. He would be better off just getting another steady part time job if those are the kind of gigs he's going to take to "pay the bills."

[Jared Lash]

Originally Posted by invader3k

Also, I don't get that mentality your drummer has of doing a gig that requires 3 and a half hours of driving for about $50.00 a man (assuming an even three way split). You figure you're going to blow at least a third of that on gas, if you're all driving separate.

It's actually worse than that. It's a four way split and he does things by the book (because he's making ends meet in various ways, he wants to be a legal/legit about it as possible) so taxes are taken out. It works out to $30 each which would barely cover gas.

Again, his rationale is that if we get asked back, we'll get $300-400 "next time". What he doesn't seem to understand is that I simply don't want to make that drive on a weeknight.

Honestly, if it was about money, I could easily use the time I invest in this band and go back to doing web design on the side. But I want to have fun playing music.

[invader3k]

Right...and unless he has some sort of formal agreement with the club, any promises of "next time" are nothing to rely on at all.

I don't understand people who don't value their own time either. I guess part of my perspective comes from being self employed...every minute of my work day has a price to it, or at least that's how I view it. What's the point of driving that far, spending time loading and unloading, if you're only going to get $30.00? It had better be one heck of a fun gig for that amount.

[von buck]

Originally Posted by SBassman

If that doesn't work out, it's time to find another drummer.

I think it's m,ore time for the drummer to find another band.

Andy

[LP75]

My experience is that there are relatively few bands in which some members DON'T have different agendas than others.

Although not usually easy, it's time to look for a different drummer.

Several years ago I joined a band with a guitarist friend when our gig dissolved and he had a side band that was actually quite good. A talented original songwriter/singer/guitarist, my friend (guitar /keyboards), myself, and this drummer I'll call "Greg".
Greg was and still may be the most talented drummer I had ever played with - incredible skills, timing, feel, intuition - just a joy to play with. But his personality was so abrasive and his attempts at manipulation so brazen, that after a year or so he was just fired. We all agreed that he had to go, and we knew we'd not likely find another as good as Greg, but in the end we were all a LOT happier with a decent drummer with an agreeable personality.

Likewise you may well be happpier with a drummer who shares your goals as a band.

[Jared Lash]

Originally Posted by von buck

I think it's more time for the drummer to find another band.

Andy

I don't want to argue semantics but, yes we've discussed the notion that our position is limiting his earning potential. But right now he's the only one who seems adamant about keeping the four of us together.

Believe me, if the situation were reversed and he told us he was leaving because he wanted to gig more, we would have had no problem with it.

I've made it clear in the past what I would and would not do, telling them that if that wasn't enough that they could replace me with no hard feelings and I meant it.

Regardless of who needs to leave who, the fact is that he is trying to redraw the lines of our working relationship and we're balking at it. There are also personality issues as I mentioned, but that is the heart of the matter.

[SBassman]

Originally Posted by von buck

I think it's m,ore time for the drummer to find another band.

Andy

This implies the drummer is in control, and the rest should just wait for him to make the move. I wouldn't see it that way. If I was part of this, I would drive having a band discussion, discussing these options, and only these options:
- The drummer agrees to change back to the page everyone else is on
- The drummer is out. Period.

Life is too short.

[Chickencha]

Originally Posted by SBassman

This implies the drummer is in control, and the rest should just wait for him to make the move. I wouldn't see it that way. If I was part of this, I would drive having a band discussion, discussing these options, and only these options:
- The drummer agrees to change back to the page everyone else is on
- The drummer is out. Period.

Life is too short.

I would agree with you if it weren't for the fact that the drummer controls the PA/monitors and practice space. It's hard to have a band without practice space.

That said, I wouldn't stay with the drummer unless he changes his mind. If it's a choice between being in a band I don't enjoy and not being in a band at all, I would choose the latter.

[SBassman]

The PA and practice space are solveable problems.

Who knows - the next drummer that comes along can have
the same.