Is being a good bass player a dying art?

[Pacman]

Originally Posted by bluewine

I'm a full member an integral part of the band not a sideman.

Blue

I've heard your band.

What do you bring to the table that makes you 'integral?'

If your band can gig with a sub, you're a sideman, no matter how much they like you.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by Pacman

I've heard your band. You're really going to tell me your band couldn't gig with a sub? If they can (and they can), you're a sideman, no matter how much the band likes you.

Jon,

You know I'm stubborn and only see things through my eyes for the most part.

I don't share your opinion. We used a sub drummer over the summer and it was a disaster.

If you opinion I'm a sideman that's fine.

I consider myself a full contributing band member and integral part of the band, not a sideman. Booked my first contract commercial gigs with this band.

Daryl Jones is a sideman.

By the way Jon, I really think subbing on a whole works better with bands that play at a lot higher level than ours.

Could my band sub another bass player? Maybe, I don't know, I don't even know if we have the resources to find one. It certainly didn't work when we subbed a drummer.

Happy New Year

Blue

[JumboJack]

Originally Posted by bluewine

Could my band sub another bass player? Maybe, I don't know, I don't even know if we have the resources to find one.
Blue

So what you're saying is there is nobody in all of Milwaukee
that could step in and play bass for your band if you could not make it to a gig?

Because I know someone in Lakewood California that could do it no sweat....

[fdeck]

Is there something dishonorable about being a sideman or sub?

[SquierJazz72]

Is there something dishonorable about being a sideman or sub?

No, not at all. Sideman is just not a term I've ever used for myself, even if others might think that of my role. And if someone's paying me to sub, I'm a sub, no dishonor there.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by JumboJack

So what you're saying is there is nobody in all of Milwaukee
that could step in and play bass for your band if you could not make it to a gig?

Because I know someone in Lakewood California that could do it no sweat....

No, I'm saying I don't know if there is any in all of Milwaukee that could step in.

As I told Jon, I feel subbing works better for bands that are higher up in the band food chain and play at a much higher level than we do. Those bands have guys waiting in the wings to sub, we don't.

Blue

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by fdeck

Is there something dishonorable about being a sideman or sub?

Not at all, take my Daryl Jones example.

Blue

Attachment 308264

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by SquierJazz72

No, not at all. Sideman is just not a term I've ever used for myself, even if others might think that of my role. And if someone's paying me to sub, I'm a sub, no dishonor there.

+1

Cool

Blue

[JumboJack]

Originally Posted by bluewine

No, I'm saying I don't know if there is any in all of Milwaukee that could step in.

As I told Jon, I feel subbing works better for bands that are higher up in the band food chain and play at a much higher level than we do. Those bands have guys waiting in the wings to sub, we don't.

Blue

Wow. I guess I'm one of those "high up the food chain" guy's. Cause I do it (step in and sub) all the time. I think I'm gonna' start asking for more dough.

[lfmn16]

Originally Posted by Chuck King

This sounds to me like the argument of somebody being defensive because nobody likes his playing.

There are no set criteria, but, there often tends to be a consensus about what's good or bad. Yes, that's opinion, of course. But, in some circumstances, opinions count. You can play whatever you want, but there's no rule that says everybody is going to like it. If you want to get gigs, if you want to be known as a good player rather than an annoying wanker, you need to work within the parameters of what's generally considered good.

If your own concept of your art or whatever requires you to go outside those parameters, you are free to do that, but other people are free to not invite you to play with them or to not listen to your music. The "rules" about "serving the song" are only rules to be followed if you care about pleasing an audience. But, to the extent art is about communication between artist and audience, if what you're playing turns people off because it's "too busy" or you "aren't playing what the song calls for", then your art fails.

This sounds like it's written by someone who doesn't understand the concept of making music. I'm sure you would have been one of the producers who passed on the Beatles because they were too far out there. If popularity had anything to do with "art" then Justin Beiber would be one of the greatest musicians of all time.

Worry about your own playing Chuckie Cheese, I'm just fine with mine. I don't win every audition I go on, but I stay as busy as I want. The day I start to worry about what some anonymous voice on the internet thinks about me or my playing is the day i burn my equipment.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by JumboJack

Wow. I guess I'm one of those "high up the food chain" guy's. Cause I do it (step in and sub) all the time. I think I'm gonna' start asking for more dough.

Well, I have two thoughts.

It might be a regional market issue.

Upping your minimum for subbing might be good idea.

Blue

[jive1]

Originally Posted by bluewine

No, I'm saying I don't know if there is any in all of Milwaukee that could step in.

I'm sure there is. I don't see anything here: http://www.mapleroadbluesband.com/music.php that seems that difficult for a moderately experienced player to come in cold and pull off. Pretty much all of them are 3 or 4 chord tunes. Not saying that they are bad tunes or that people don't get into them, just saying they really aren't that difficult.

As I told Jon, I feel subbing works better for bands that are higher up in the band food chain and play at a much higher level than we do. Those bands have guys waiting in the wings to sub, we don't.

It's really more a function of the material than it is the level that the band is at. For example, for a Blues-Rock band I can find tons of guys who can step in cold whether it's a gig at a dive bar or A list room. On the other hand if I had a Who tribute playing a festival for $3K, it would be harder for me to find someone who can come in and nail Entwistle's lines cold.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by jive1

I'm sure there is. I don't see anything here: http://www.mapleroadbluesband.com/music.php that seems that difficult for a moderately experienced player to come in cold and pull off. Pretty much all of them are 3 or 4 chord tunes. Not saying that they are bad tunes or that people don't get into them, just saying they really aren't that difficult.

It's really more a function of the material than it is the level that the band is at. For example, for a Blues-Rock band I can find tons of guys who can step in cold whether it's a gig at a dive bar or A list room. On the other hand if I had a Who tribute playing a festival for $3K, it would be harder for me to find someone who can come in and nail Entwistle's lines cold.

There's absolutely nothing difficult about the material or someone being able to play it. The problem might be finding someone willing to do it.

My bass teacher who is a founding member of Leroy Airmaster, a legendary Milwaukee blues band could probably come in and do it cold with no rehearsal. Problem is he wouldn't do it for 2 reasons;

We couldn't afford him.

He's just out of our league.

Then you have a lot of guys that play but aren't even at the basic level we play at.

So, finding a sub is relevant to the level of play and the availability of the pool of players at that level.


Blue

[zachoff]

There are people better than me and people worse than me. Always have been... Always will be. I'm happy in my mediocre little corner of the world; the little corner with little time for practice, little time for study, and a little time for noodling around to see where it gets me. I'm happy with what I've done, and I'm happy with what I'm doing.

[JumboJack]

Originally Posted by bluewine

There's absolutely nothing difficult about the material or someone being able to play it. The problem might be finding someone willing to do it.

Then you have a lot of guys that play but aren't even at the basic level we play at.

So, finding a sub is relevant to the level of play and the availability of the pool of players at that level.


Blue

There are a LOT of guy's in a metro area like Milwakee that could do it. With over 2m people in the area I would guess there are at least a few that could do it.

In between your music teacher and guy's that are not at your "level of play" there are tons of guys that can rock a 4 chord blues rock tune with little to no homework. That's just the facts.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by JumboJack

There are a LOT of guy's in a metro area like Milwakee that could do it. With over 2m people in the area I would guess there are at least a few that could do it.

In between your music teacher and guy's that are not at your "level of play" there are tons of guys that can rock a 4 chord blues rock tune with little to no homework. That's just the facts.

Maybe, but we don't know who they are or if they would be a match.

Which brings me back to my initial response to Jon. I don't know if my band could find a sub for me.

You might, but I don't.

By the way those are your facts not mine. And I think you know who's facts I follow.

Happy New Year

Blue

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by zachoff

There are people better than me and people worse than me. Always have been... Always will be. I'm happy in my mediocre little corner of the world; the little corner with little time for practice, little time for study, and a little time for noodling around to see where it gets me. I'm happy with what I've done, and I'm happy with what I'm doing.

Me too.

I'm to old and have been playing to long to play the "who is better than who game".

" I have good nights and I have nights that I feel like I should hang it up"

Blue

[michael_atw]

Originally Posted by lfmn16

This sounds like it's written by someone who doesn't understand the concept of making music. I'm sure you would have been one of the producers who passed on the Beatles because they were too far out there. If popularity had anything to do with "art" then Justin Beiber would be one of the greatest musicians of all time.

The Beatles comparison is a bit funny because they were the Justin Beiber of their time. They would have been passed over had they not had their Beliebers for 4 years. Then when Pet Sounds came out and The Kinks started experimenting with eastern music suddenly The Beatles were a new invention.

[JumboJack]

Originally Posted by michael_atw

The Beatles comparison is a bit funny because they were the Justin Beiber of their time. They would have been passed over had they not had their Beliebers for 4 years. Then when Pet Sounds came out and The Kinks started experimenting with eastern music suddenly The Beatles were a new invention.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by michael_atw

The Beatles comparison is a bit funny because they were the Justin Beiber of their time. They would have been passed over had they not had their Beliebers for 4 years. Then when Pet Sounds came out and The Kinks started experimenting with eastern music suddenly The Beatles were a new invention.

2 names that should never be in the same sentence or comparison on any level.

The Beatles and Justin Beiber


Blue