Is being a good bass player a dying art?

[KingRazor]

Originally Posted by Musiclogic

Too many bass players want to be Vic Wooten or Stu Hamm. They want to be out front and play over everything. It's very limited, the amount of players that can sit in the pocket and hold down the bottom end without going off into thousand note world. You see it here on TB in "look at my band" clips constantly. Everyone wants to be a soloist and nobody knows how to be a sideman anymore. It's more poor technique mixed with excessive ego around here. I find it humorous, also part of the reason local music venues have become sparse over the past 20 years, crap musicians can't pull a crowd.

I think a balance can be achieved.

Honestly, I don't usually notice a bass player who just plays root notes. On the other hand, a bassist who is overplaying stands out to me in a bad way.

When a bass player can throw in some interesting lines, while keeping them in context of the song and not ruining the feel of it, that's what catches my attention, and it's those bassists I try to be like.

[bass12]

Originally Posted by Clef_de_fa

Bass isn't a role ... it is a sound, you can do whatever you want with it.

We're not talking frequencies here, we're talking bass as an instrument and when it comes to that there is most definitely a role to be played. The role might change depending on the context, but in most music your role as a bass player is consistent. And if you play bass for a living, chances are you learned exactly what that role tends to be pretty quickly.

[Ziggy_Starbucks]

Originally Posted by Jarrett

To clarify, my original post meant something like I don't see many bass players around today that could for example *really* pull off Jamerson's bass line to Marvin Gaye's Heard It Through The Grapevine. Just the feel, nuance, pocket, melodic sense that is in a classic line like that. It's not super technically hard, just takes focus, time and practice to own those fundamentals. Those core fundamentals seem to be missing more and more in modern playing. That's what I'm saying.

Nope. not even slightly. I can't say what's it's like where you live but where i am there's great musicians of every kind tripping over each other. I don't personally know a lot of bassist's but just about every week I see a band who's bassist can genuinely make me stop what I'm doing and listen. then again i'm terrible for remembering people so i may just be seeing the same few guys over and over again. bit still a few guys like that in every city in the world and i don't see any issues with the future of the instrument. Even the fact that you bring this up as a topic shows that you are someone that values that aspect of playing and even if there's only one guy like you in every city in the world we're doing good. And every single reply in this thread shows that someone else values these skills just as much as you, so therefore i would say there could be more great bassist around now than there has ever been before.

[Clef_de_fa]

Originally Posted by bass12

We're not talking frequencies here, we're talking bass as an instrument and when it comes to that there is most definitely a role to be played. The role might change depending on the context, but in most music your role as a bass player is consistent. And if you play bass for a living, chances are you learned exactly what that role tends to be pretty quickly.

I've been really serious about music, I even went to college just to learn a lot more stuff about music.

I play bass and DB, I know in an ensemble you will more likely be at the end of the spectrum but still, bass is like any instrument and it isn't tied to a role ... people give it a role ... You could play a bass line with a trompet and it will fulfill the same need within the music.

You could play the theme of Autumn Leaves on drum, the bass will do the chords and the trumpet will do the walking ... you know ... it is the people who limit themselves and put the bass in a small box and never let it go outside.

[worxforme]

When I play bass there are lots of great bass players, when I'm playing guitar I don't see as many, I see lots of great guitar players.

Whatever you look for, you'll find.

[James L]

A Lot has to do with the music now. your average listener could care less about musicianship. It's all about the "words". What's out and hittin now is very simple overall and doesn't require as much musicianship. I just groove the tune and do some melodic runs when the song allows..

[bassbully]

Originally Posted by Jarrett

To clarify, my original post meant something like I don't see many bass players around today that could for example *really* pull off Jamerson's bass line to Marvin Gaye's Heard It Through The Grapevine. Just the feel, nuance, pocket, melodic sense that is in a classic line like that. It's not super technically hard, just takes focus, time and practice to own those fundamentals. Those core fundamentals seem to be missing more and more in modern playing. That's what I'm saying.

Understood but does that make them a bad player? I can enjoy a very simple bassline if it serves the song...we are all different and have our own styles you know.

[Astreaux]

Originally Posted by ImaStupidBaby

I might get eaten alive for this post but whatever: Bass guitar is a fairly easy instrument to pick up and start playing and a lot (not all by any means) of the techniques are quite a bit easier than other instruments. But what makes bass a difficult instrument is that it takes subtlety. A lot of guitar players get a lot of props for being technically good, being able to shred or play a scale incredibly fast. But being a good bassist (to me) means you know where to put a note, how long to play it. And that is not at all an easy thing to learn. Playing a bass line that is just eighth notes is physically easy to do, but the difficult part is making that straight eighth note line sound great.

+1 Spot on...

[Clef_de_fa]

Originally Posted by ImaStupidBaby

I might get eaten alive for this post but whatever: Bass guitar is a fairly easy instrument to pick up and start playing and a lot (not all by any means) of the techniques are quite a bit easier than other instruments. But what makes bass a difficult instrument is that it takes subtlety. A lot of guitar players get a lot of props for being technically good, being able to shred or play a scale incredibly fast. But being a good bassist (to me) means you know where to put a note, how long to play it. And that is not at all an easy thing to learn. Playing a bass line that is just eighth notes is physically easy to do, but the difficult part is making that straight eighth note line sound great.

How it is possible to make 8th note sound bad when you are playing the right note ... no matter the style of music, 8th note are the same ... they don't magically change because you do 8th in a samba compared to rock. If you are playing note that fit the key/chords I don't see/hear how it could go wrong ...

[Marty Forrer]

I saw James Taylor many years ago. His bassist was Lee Sklar who, as you know, is known as the master of the whole note. Lee played so simply that I was drawn to the other musos (and James) and pretty much forgot about Lee. Then James gave the band a chance to stretch their legs, and they were burning! And who was the most burning of the lot? Yep...... Lee Sklar. Out of all the fantastic musos in the band, Lee had the entire crowd up on their feet for his soloing, me included once I picked my jaw up off the floor.
Two points here: 1.... he played so supportively for most of the night that he was doing exactly what he was there for.... making James sound good and not detracting from the songs in any way.
2.... when it was his time in the spotlight, he took it, turned it inside out.... he OWNED the stage for that solo. Had four fingers working on his right hand. No theatrics, no body movement, just a jaw-dropping solo.
Conclusion.... that was the best bass lesson I ever had in my life. It taught me not to jump to conclusions and to support the artist I'm backing to the best of my ability. If I get a chance to shine..... fine, if I dont it's only my stupid ego that's dented a little.

[alexlocurto]

Originally Posted by Raymeous

Also, at least within the last century, musicianship has been under appreciated. Think about bands like Rush, Dream Theater, Opeth, or Nightwish.

Nightwish is so utterly glorious. You sir, have good taste in music.

[alexlocurto]

Originally Posted by Clef_de_fa

How it is possible to make 8th note sound bad when you are playing the right note ... no matter the style of music, 8th note are the same ... they don't magically change because you do 8th in a samba compared to rock. If you are playing note that fit the key/chords I don't see/hear how it could go wrong ...

Eighth notes get old very quickly. Sure, TECHNICALLY it may be an option to play, but pounding eighths to a chord progression makes for boring music. IMO, boring music is not good music.

[DWBass]

No shortage of really good, talented bass players in my area but I have found that most of them tend to do more than what's needed. Lots of 'look what I can do'! The young r&b cats all play the gospel style of 'runs for days'! The young rockers fill every sonic space with notes..many that don't even belong! Even some of the older rock guys feel the need to fill every sonic space. The older r&b guys do the same. Nobody just really lays back and grooves and plays just what the song needs. I think I'm part of a dying breed. I'm so sick of hearing cats say how boring some basslines are or refuse to play songs note for note. Gotta do it 'my way'! I'll never play 1/8 note root notes! Blah blah blah blah! I get the need to be creative but stop making excuses for it and stop slagging on those who choose to be more simple and tasteful in their playing styles.

[dave64o]

Originally Posted by AltGrendel

Wait till you have an enlarged prostate.

BWAHHHHHH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!!!!!

Nice bit o' comic relief!

[klyph]

I don't think so. I hear plenty of crappy cover band bassists, but I hear some good ones, too. I also hear pianists, Guitarists, and cellists playing sensitive, supportive, thoughtful accompaniments to themselves and others. Gotta seek out the good stuff, though. Might have to do some drivin'.

Honkin', rockin, saxophone is the dying art. When was the last time you saw someone play like Earl Bostic or Boots Randolph? It's all super tame-toned, mega-dextrous "funk" or jazz these days; no cojones, dammit! Clarence Clemons was the only guy I got to see... seriously, where are the twenty somethings who can play like that- post links if you got 'em!

Eh, sorry for the OT rant

[joebar]

Originally Posted by alexlocurto

Eighth notes get old very quickly. Sure, TECHNICALLY it may be an option to play, but pounding eighths to a chord progression makes for boring music. IMO, boring music is not good music.

if you have ever had the privilege of playing with a drummer whose foundation you could build house on, then you know how awesome those eighth notes can be to lay down.
i don`t care how good a bassist`s timing is- he is only one part of the formula; a great drummer is the other part of the equation which no one has really touched on.

[alexlocurto]

Originally Posted by joebar

if you have ever had the privilege of playing with a drummer whose foundation you could build house on, then you know how awesome those eighth notes can be to lay down.
i don`t care how good a bassist`s timing is- he is only one part of the formula; a great drummer is the other part of the equation which no one has really touched on.

You know, that actually sounds true. That being said, I've never played with a great drummer.

[Ewo]

I'm thinking it's about having ears--hearing everything that's going on in the mix and playing lines that glue it all together into a groove.

I figure some bassists do that intuitively, others do it through study and woodshedding, but being able to hear all the parts the other musicians are playing is what makes the difference.

Guess that's always been rare, when you come down to it.

[Shakin-Slim]

I believe it's a case of the bar having been lowered. Now you can get by being half-skilled. It's as much to do with a changing aesthetic as anything, IMO. Also, I'm sure there have always been more average bassists than good ones. Most of them were just guitarists who were surplus to requirement. I believe it's still the case. We only remember the great ones. Have I contradicted myself? Perhaps. But I don't see many bassists today who will really be remembered in the future. I mean, Derek Hodge and Michael League are truly great, as are many others, but Jamerson and Dunn were playing on mainstream, pop hits.

[Passinwind]

Originally Posted by Jarrett

Not sure where to put this one, thought I would try here.

More and more I see bands, local and national that have really so so bass players. Some local are quite bad actually. Pop music all the way from the 60's through the 90's required quite a bit of skill and most local bass players had pretty impressive technique and really solid fundamentals. You could tell they had spent time studying the masters over time.

Nowadays, I don't see that as much anymore outside of the first call studio guys. Anyone else noticing this?

Not at all, at my local level. There are many more accomplished players here these days than at any time in the last twenty+ years I've lived out here. I hardly ever listen to pop music though, so maybe my perception is colored by that.