Is being a good bass player a dying art?

[Hilton Marsh]

I read all the posts on this topic and then did something I haven't done for a long time, I turned over to the MTV channel and watched part of an Indie Rock concert. Yawn! Bass players with beards and 70's style t-shirts was all I saw. Each playing the same four chord, root note style material while a singer/guitarist trys to cover up his inability to sing in key by tuning the guitar to his voice. Its not my thing. But having said that, I dont think that genre of music would work with a Mark King or Geddy Lee or Donald Duck Dunn wannabe on bass. It works because the bassist is being minimalistic. So, do I think much has changed, no. Do I think the gripes about todays bassists are any different to those from decades past, no. When I go to see a live band I want to see a bassist with flare. Someone who can doodle and entertain at the same time. In Australia we have an incredible wealth of really good bass players and most are doodling away in local covers bands.

[Clef_de_fa]

Originally Posted by jive1

Here's a little perspective.

Prior to the Rock and Roll era of the 50s and 60s, pretty much every performing musician knew how to read music. It was a part of your general education, even if you weren't a musician. 3 chords tunes outside of Folk music like Bluegrass or Blues weren't popular. Take a look at the popular songs of the 40s. Stuff by Duke Ellington, Tommy Dorsey, Glenn Miller, etc. were popular. These songs were harmonically, melodically, and rhythmically more complex the Rock N Roll of the 50s and 60s. Even a kid's song like Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer had more changes than something done by Elvis. Just take a look at a chart from a popular 40s tune vs a 60s tune, and it's pretty apparent.

Also, amplification changed the game. The volume and sonic space that was once created by a big band was now created by a single distorted guitar. Lots of horn players lost jobs, since you didn't need a row of horns to create the volume that one can with a microphone. Lots of songs just didn't need strings, brass, winds, tuned percussion, etc. like they used to. An upright bass playing the I and V, a drum hitting the snare on 2 and 4, and a guitar playing 3 chords loudly was all that was needed to play Rock N Roll. You couldn't say that about he popular music from a decade ago where you had a large band to pull the material off.

I'm sure some of the stuff you guys are saying today, are the same things musicians said when Elvis and the Beatles came out.

+1 I think you are right

[Jarrett]

Originally Posted by powderfinger

You know what the problem really is?

Lack of musicianship in mainstream music. We all know there's plenty of great music still being made, but its harder to find.

When I was young, I would turn on the radio or MTV, and I was inspired to be like "those guys". "Those guys", of course being Nirvana, Pearl Jam, REM, Soundgarden, Dinosaur, Jr.m etc.

My parents generation were inspired by bands on the AM radio and Ed Sullivan, Smothers Bros, et al. Beatles, Stones, Who, Doors, et al.

There is no one for young people in the mainstream to really be "inspired" by anymore. IMO.

I mean its harder to be inspired by an indie band on MySpace. Just the facts. Sadly.

Yeah this is definitely what I was headed towards. Good stuff.

[SquierJazz72]

What I've noticed is that a lot of younger players want to do the "flashy stuff," e.g., slap/pop/tap/sweep, etc., and ignore the fundamentals. I don't know how many times I've gone into a music store and heard a young guy/gal slapping/popping/tapping like there's no tomorrow. I walk in, and start doing some finger style stuff, and they're like, "wow, I didn't know you could do that with a bass!" This is not to say I'm sort of monster player - I'm not - but it tells me that they don't focus on basics and fundamentals a whole lot, at least not where I live.

I think that may have some to do with it. Not all, but some. Even the guys in my local music store demo bass rigs by..........slapping and popping. I actually haven't heard any of them just play even a simple line.

[Kenzy]

Originally Posted by SquierJazz72

I think that may have some to do with it. Not all, but some. Even the guys in my local music store demo bass rigs by..........slapping and popping. I actually haven't heard any of them just play even a simple line.

If you're a slap bassist then it only makes sense to demo basses by slapping and popping... If you're satisfied with simple lines it makes sense to demo basses by playing simple lines. Is this thread starting to go in the opposite direction of the OP? He was remarking that bassists are dumbing down the music, while it seems like a lot of people on this post are really advocating just that.

[SquierJazz72]

No, all I am saying is it seems a lot of players I have seen locally are not well rounded. Because slap was metioned, it was an example iwent with out of experience, nothing more. If People mostly slap because they ARE that kind of player, that's one thing, and nothing I have a problem with. If they do just because they think it's "the thing" and can't do anything else, that's another, perhaps.

[Bassist4Eris]

Originally Posted by Passinwind

Pretty faint praise, given this rather famous quote:

"Rock 'n' roll smells phony and false. It is sung, played and written, for the most part, by cretinous goons. And, by means of its almost imbecilic reiteration, and sly, lewd and in plain fact, dirty lyrics ... it manages to be the martial music of every side-burned delinquent on the face of the earth."

But that's what I like about it!

[Passinwind]

Originally Posted by Bassist4Eris

But that's what I like about it!

Of course. Just substitute "Rap" for rock 'n' roll and we're right up to date though, no?

[malthumb]

Originally Posted by Jarrett

To clarify, my original post meant something like I don't see many bass players around today that could for example *really* pull off Jamerson's bass line to Marvin Gaye's Heard It Through The Grapevine. Just the feel, nuance, pocket, melodic sense that is in a classic line like that. It's not super technically hard, just takes focus, time and practice to own those fundamentals. Those core fundamentals seem to be missing more and more in modern playing. That's what I'm saying.

Understanding the clarification, I still say that there's a ton of folks that can handle that in the Detroit area. But to your point I've also seen a lot who cannot. Your circle of travels might just be taking you closer to the cannot camp.

[obimark]

The best compliment I have gotten recently is "You don't play like a typical pick player." You make it sound FAT.

(althought I do play fingerstyle for 25% of my bands songs, mostly the funkier ones..)
And this compliment was from the drummer, see he was impressed that I actually am not doing triplets, and sixteenth notes on every song, that I actually know how to drive songs with FAT eighth notes, and MY GOD even quarter notes and half notes at times. SO WHEN I play a flashy fill, (which I do throw in) IT STANDS OUT.
This is what has been lost- GROOVE, GROOVE and then GROOVE, before you throw in ANY Flash. When I hear wanker bassists on this site, I am sorry it just doesn't do anything for me. I do like MArcus Miller, because he holds his groove 95% of the time even though he is flashy.

[powderfinger]

Unlike most of today's pop stars... The Beatles wrote most of their own music (even in the beginning), never used auto-tune, and played their own instruments.

[bassbully]

Well like Victor Wooten told me the world needs more bass players who groove and stay to the role of a bass player. Flashy bass playing has in some ways been an enemy for us.

[dustinfennessey]

I think it all comes down to opinion. In talking to other musicians I tend to see a lot of genres thinking other genre bassists aren't very good. Example being a jazz bassist seeing a metal bassist and thinking they aren't that good - "hey look all he's doing is picking super fast". Not realizing that it takes skill and that jazz bassist is probably oblivious to what it takes to play metal. When I go to live shows I can usually pick something out that the bassist does very well - whether it's sitting in the pocket, technique, etc. It all depends who/what you are into. I love and look up to the bass players from Russian Circles, Cult of Luna, Cave In, Ulver, etc. I'm sure a lot of people on TB woudl listen to those bands and think they are nothing special - but to me they are better than a wooten or a jaco. Opinions and perspective my friends.

[bassbully]

For me its all about serving the song. I don't care if it is 4 chord rock or free form jazz just do your job and make it all sound good.
To me a good bassist is judged on how he serves the song and knows their limits in a band.

I remember going to a community concert in the park about 5-6 years ago and seeing an oldies band. The bassist had a simple rig and a P bass and he was killing it. I had never seen a guy look so cool and collected playing bass and making it look so easy as he did. All he did was outline the chords/roots and play walks all night but he did it with great tone and style.

I never thought "Hey wonder if he can play any of Jaco's riffs? Who cares he did his job and did it well.

[obimark]

Originally Posted by bassbully

For me its all about serving the song. I don't care if it is 4 chord rock or free form jazz just do your job and make it all sound good.
To me a good bassist is judged on who he serves the song and knows their limits in a band.

I remember going to a community concert in the park about 5-6 years ago and seeing an oldies band. The bassist had a simple rig and a P bass and he was killing it. I had never seen a guy look so cool and collected playing bass and making it look so easy as he did. All he did was outline the choards/roots and play walks all night but he did it with great tone and style.

I never thought "Hey wonder if he can play and of Jaco's riffs? Who cares he did his job and did it well.

Amen- one thing to never lose sight of; you are playing in a BAND, and while bass can be a solo instrument on RARE occassions, it is not highly sought after as a SOLO instrument. How many folks play a solo gig on bass (and maybe sing), NOT MANY. How many people show up to see a solo BASS artist other than other bass geeks?

[powderfinger]

Originally Posted by obimark

Amen- one thing to never lose site of you are playing in a BAND, and while bass can be a solo instrument in RARE occassions, it is not highly sought after as a SOLO instrument. How many folks play a solo gig on bass (and maybe sing), NOT MANY. How many people show up to see a solo BASS artist other than other bass geeks?

If I walk into a club that actually has a band period, instead of karaoke or a DJ playing dance or 80s music, Im impressed. I dont even care if the bassist sucks.

[Clef_de_fa]

I think that me and the younger generation we haven't listened to a lot of Funk, Rock, R'n'B or Gospel/Praise music.

I have listened more to jazz fusion, classical , extrem metal and metal prog music than Rock, Funk, R'n'B, Gospel ... so I don't really feel like I have the same vision has you about the instrument, its role or the way it should sound.

Also ... I think that a young bass player should be encouraged to play the music he listens to, because it will be the style he will be best at. After a while you can start to show other music and make him/her learn other stuff.

Many people are also self-thaught and I think it has a lot of repercussion on the progress, limited knowledge, lack of direction etc

[bassbully]

Originally Posted by powderfinger

If I walk into a club that actually has a band period, instead of karaoke or a DJ playing dance or 80s music, Im impressed. I dont even care if the bassist sucks.

Good one! End Thread

[Russell L]

Haven't had time to read all the replies, but let me just say that what I've been noticing lately is a lack of proper "articulation." One of my personal sayings is, "Articulation is everything." Too many players focus on content, lots of notes, proper scales, and showmanship, and forget the main thing (IMO), that being the "feel." When I practice at home it's my goal to get a groove going, and to take each line and articulate the notes with feeling. And, there are actually techniques to how to do some of it, while other things about it can be hard to define. But, it's what makes guys like, say, Jamerson sound so good. Often the parts are not hard to play, but to get that right feel can be elusive. Somehow you have to "let" it happen sometimes rather than "make" it happen. But, in any case, IMO the feel of a bass line is what it's all about. You can still throw in a lick here and there, too, and still have the feel right (or not lose the feel you already had going). I dunno, I don't know how to stress it enough that articulation really IS everything. In a way it is a lost art, I guess, these days.

[bluewine]

I don't think it's a dying art. It's like anything else. It's not necessary to be good.

What's good is so relative. There are bass players that TBers rave about that I can't listen to for more than a few bars.

Blue