Bluntly criticize my band!

[Man with an Axe]

Hey guys, this is my first band's show that we caught entirely on tape. I wanted to hear some criticism from you guys, although I got a couple myself...

1) clicky bass tone, sometimes overly loud
2) sometimes off-key lead singer.

Other than that, any ideas for how to make my band better? Be blunt as possible. Also, if this is the wrong forum to post it, then... oops

http://www.youtube.com/user/Joukun

[Dave Muscato]

You don't seem very passionate about your music (that goes to all of you). You were all just standing around playing your parts. The singer was getting into it a little bit, but you could all show some emotion and it wouldn't hurt.

I'm not sure that's something I can help you fix, lol. Passion is arguably the most important thing to have if you want to be a musician. What do you have to say? Why are you up there? If you don't have something to say, get off the stage. What's your message? Why should people listen to you? I'm not saying you should be political or anything like that, but have something special to communicate through your music, something urgent & even just something intersting, but have something specific that is *you,* that is the reason people should listen to you - or better yet, would get something out of listening to you. I asked the guitar-player/singer/frontman of my trio why he plays music, and he said something I will never forget: "If I didn't, I would burst." That's what playing music is about.

Anyway, I'm not a fan of the "what? we have a show? but I don't even have time to change" look. We're not a pop band, but we tend to have an "image" that we stick to where we're on stage, and we all dress appropriately (& somewhat similarly). It may be shallow, but it goes a long way for stage presence, for whatever reason... my 2 cents.

- Dave

[TeeMartin]

I'll be honest: I thought it felt like a rap artist except with really, really generic rock riffs replacing catchy beats.

[xlows]

Originally Posted by Man with an Axe

Hey guys, this is my first band's show that we caught entirely on tape. I wanted to hear some criticism from you guys, although I got a couple myself...

1) clicky bass tone, sometimes overly loud
2) sometimes off-key lead singer.

Other than that, any ideas for how to make my band better? Be blunt as possible. Also, if this is the wrong forum to post it, then... oops

http://www.youtube.com/user/Joukun

I think if you guys want to make it as a rap group, you're on the right track. If you guys wanna move more towards the Rage direction of rap over harder rock, you'll need some catchier riffs I think. BUt as a rap group, I think it can work.

[Man with an Axe]

Originally Posted by Dave Muscato

You don't seem very passionate about your music (that goes to all of you). You were all just standing around playing your parts. The singer was getting into it a little bit, but you could all show some emotion and it wouldn't hurt.

I'm not sure that's something I can help you fix, lol. Passion is arguably the most important thing to have if you want to be a musician. What do you have to say? Why are you up there? If you don't have something to say, get off the stage. What's your message? Why should people listen to you? I'm not saying you should be political or anything like that, but have something special to communicate through your music, something urgent & even just something intersting, but have something specific that is *you,* that is the reason people should listen to you - or better yet, would get something out of listening to you. I asked the guitar-player/singer/frontman of my trio why he plays music, and he said something I will never forget: "If I didn't, I would burst." That's what playing music is about.

Anyway, I'm not a fan of the "what? we have a show? but I don't even have time to change" look. We're not a pop band, but we tend to have an "image" that we stick to where we're on stage, and we all dress appropriately (& somewhat similarly). It may be shallow, but it goes a long way for stage presence, for whatever reason... my 2 cents.

- Dave

I like the advice, but the only thing is: we'd move a lot more were the stage not so small... we had almost nowhere to move.

Thanks a lot for the advice, everyone. It's actually really cool to hear what everyone thinks

[louieeadg]

Like Dave said man, mooove. Doesn't matter how big that stage is. I don't have speakers on my computer here at work so I can't comment on the sound. Seriously though, your body language is lacking. If YOU don't believe the music while your playing it, don't expect your audience to believe it. It looked like a chore for you guys to be up there. Is music a chore? I hope not. One thing that took me a while to realize is the whole essence of stage presence. Its important. And you have to realize you're not just on stage playing music, you're performing a show for the audience. Go bat$h!t crazy up there, have fun. And don't make excuses like "its a small stage". That's another thing I've learned through life. Excuses are just rationalizations. Make something happen. Watch some RATM videos on YouTube. Then tell me if they ever dumbed down their shows b/c of a small stage.

good luck,
cheers

[louieeadg]

Oh yeah, one more thing. Also watch some videos of Sly & the Family Stone & P-Funk, I love the 70's funk bands. You can turn the sound off of your computer, groove along with them, and still believe what they're saying. There aren't many groups out there that can still get you to move without sound!!

cheers man

[Cactusgrant]

The guitar player is stiff like a board, the musics good enough but I agree with the previous posts, you guys look kinda stiff and unnatural, but then again being natural and relaxed on stage takes time

[Megalomania]

Yeah, you don't necessarily need to walk around and have a big roomy stage, but you guys are stiff. Just loosen up and feel the music.

[iplaybassguitar]

Originally Posted by Man with an Axe

I like the advice, but the only thing is: we'd move a lot more were the stage not so small... we had almost nowhere to move.

Thanks a lot for the advice, everyone. It's actually really cool to hear what everyone thinks

small stage is no excuse. you can still bob your head and bend your knees and move around in that small area you do have. groovegroovegroove

[threshar]

Movement is nice, but I know myself sometimes when I'm playing I get wrapped up in things and forget to move. You just need to keep practicing and working on it and keep gigging. Nothing is a substitute for gigs. There is so much more and different energy than at rehersal. Try to feel the audience. (and in some cases, try to feel up the audience )

As for small stage syndrome, I play in a 6 piece group, we've played on stages smaller than that. We played a show in NYC where our keyboardist had to crawl under his keys to get into his spot. I had virtually no room to move and needed to change my bass playing position because there wasn't enough room for the neck of my bass! We still nailed it that night and had a full house. Nowadays, we check stage size before booking a place

[Dave Muscato]

Originally Posted by threshar

Movement is nice, but I know myself sometimes when I'm playing I get wrapped up in things and forget to move.

If the music is moving you, you can't "forget" to move... it's involuntary. That was what I was trying to say in my earlier post. If you "forget" to move, what you're really saying is that you're not into it because you're focusing elsewhere. If people are paying to see you play (or even just there to see you, as the case may be), it's your job to be in the moment.

My 2 cents,

Dave

[Man with an Axe]

Originally Posted by Cactusgrant

The guitar player is stiff like a board, the musics good enough but I agree with the previous posts, you guys look kinda stiff and unnatural, but then again being natural and relaxed on stage takes time

Haha... yeah. We've been trying to tell the guy that he's gotta move around more for quite some time, but no luck. Admittedly, he's gotten a lot better about the movement thing on stage though.

Watching the footage though, I'm not so sure I like the way that I move myself.... I dunno why, just I feel as though the way I move when I make music is unnatural...

I really do like the advice you're all giving us. We're still a new band, and we're still not very experienced on stage--so is there a "trick" to being a lot more relaxed on stage, or is it just purely experience?

[Cactusgrant]

I think its a mixture. Perception is everything i.e if you act confident, you are confident, right? Are you experienced ? Fake it until you are!

btw I do like the music, you guys sound good. keeping working at it and it'll come in time

[MoD_Scotty]

That video reminds me of when I used to play in a blues/funk/jam band. I did it because it was the first gig I found in a new city. I totally didn't give a crap about the music. I tried my hardest to get into the music, but it was and uphill battle for a metalhead like myself.

So what did I do? I joined a metal band!

Here's an example of what you can do with six people crammed on a tiny stage (this is my band, Hollowmass):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6f2WBWGiUbg

[poisonoakie]

Your band reminds me of that band "Crazy Town". They had that song "Butterfly". . . "Come my lady, come come my lady, your my butterfly, sugar, baby."

[louieeadg]

Originally Posted by Man with an Axe

Haha... yeah. We've been trying to tell the guy that he's gotta move around more for quite some time, but no luck. Admittedly, he's gotten a lot better about the movement thing on stage though.

Watching the footage though, I'm not so sure I like the way that I move myself.... I dunno why, just I feel as though the way I move when I make music is unnatural...

I really do like the advice you're all giving us. We're still a new band, and we're still not very experienced on stage--so is there a "trick" to being a lot more relaxed on stage, or is it just purely experience?

True, it is a mixture. There is a feeling at gigs that you just can't "simulate" anywhere else. The more you perform, the more comfortable and "homey" you'll feel.

One thing you can try to do for examining stage presence is videotaping rehearsals every now and then. Go crazy. You don't need to tape every practice but once a week or so should be good. Tape it, then watch it together. And if your mates are mature enough, you'll be able to help each other out by first pointing out the good, then finding what you need to work on.

cheers

[threshar]

the "trick" is more confidence, which often comes directly from playing more gigs. You'll realize that you control the crowd and 99% of the time if you flub, they don't realize it. (Which to me is both concerning and encouraging. Concerning they aren't listening enough to realize, but encouraging that if I do mess up they likely won't notice. heheh)

as for the "if you aren't moving you aren't enjoying or aren't thinking right" comment, thats your opinion. Sometimes I just get so wrapped into the music my body forgets to wiggle so to speak. (It used to be nerves, but nowadays it is is more I've sort of detached from myself and I'm just enjoying the tunes and don't think of it. Although that doesn't happen as often anymore. I find more stage space helps this a lot. )

[WayneP]

Rapping (or “chanting” as I call it) to a real chord progression – an interesting concept. As others have said – might work.

My suggestion: Tell your guitar player to get an imagination. Mindless, endless eight-note chord strumming – how original. “Dumb strumming,” I call it. Ninety-nine guitar players out of a hundred play like that. Notice that he’s just aping your part in that song. You and the drummer are laying down the groove. You don’t need his help for that – tell him to come up with his own part! One that adds some dimension to the song.

As far as I know, guitar players are the only musicians who recycle the same, identical eighth-note strumming song after song. Why doesn’t someone, anyone, somewhere, stop the rehearsal and say, “Dude! You played the same thing on the last song! Don’t you have something else? What if the drummer gave us the same beat song after song? What if I (the bass player) did nothing but eighth notes song after song? You’d probably fire me!”

Originally Posted by Dave Muscato

Anyway, I'm not a fan of the "what? we have a show? but I don't even have time to change" look. We're not a pop band, but we tend to have an "image" that we stick to where we're on stage, and we all dress appropriately (& somewhat similarly). It may be shallow, but it goes a long way for stage presence, for whatever reason... my 2 cents. Dave

Great stuff there, Dave!

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

[Man with an Axe]

Originally Posted by WayneP

Rapping (or “chanting” as I call it) to a real chord progression – an interesting concept. As others have said – might work.

My suggestion: Tell your guitar player to get an imagination. Mindless, endless eight-note chord strumming – how original. “Dumb strumming,” I call it. Ninety-nine guitar players out of a hundred play like that. Notice that he’s just aping your part in that song. You and the drummer are laying down the groove. You don’t need his help for that – tell him to come up with his own part! One that adds some dimension to the song.

As far as I know, guitar players are the only musicians who recycle the same, identical eighth-note strumming song after song. Why doesn’t someone, anyone, somewhere, stop the rehearsal and say, “Dude! You played the same thing on the last song! Don’t you have something else? What if the drummer gave us the same beat song after song? What if I (the bass player) did nothing but eighth notes song after song? You’d probably fire me!”


Great stuff there, Dave!

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Actually, it's funny you mention that. The guy's going to be leaving for Cleveland to get his Ph. D. soon, and he asked me to switch to g####r so I could cover his parts. I know of a couple bassists who are just as good/better than me at keeping the groove, so I'm going to see what I can come up with on my guitar... I'm more of a Jimi Hendrix-oriented Rhythm player so it might sound different.

And yea, we're going to try to get moving on the next time we play. We tend to get so nervous that we're scared stiff sometimes. I'm glad that most people seem to like the sounds that we make, though.