but seriously, how loud is too loud? at a gig?

[NateS]

So....looking to start booking gigs soonish? hopefully.

We do bassy ambient drone/doom/noise. Think Sunn O))) but with less motion. And we play LOUD. Loud for our garage practice space, and when we get to truly turn up it's glorious. And to really appreciate what we do, we need to do it loud. LOUD.

but how loud is too loud? Here on TB we always joke about playing too loud and getting shut off, or "it's never too loud". But we don't want our gigs to get stopped, that's kind of counter productive, ya think?

How do bands like Sunn O))), Man-O-War, My bloody Valentine all get to play so skull-crushingly loud without constantly getting stopped? Just agreeing with the venue? Is that a personal buffer, or would a venue genuinely be worried about being too loud? I don't know, really...

Short story shorter, is there a trick to getting to be loud, or is it just luck?

[ric stave]

Sounds like you need to book in the 'right' places - or rent a place and hold your own show if you can't find a venue compatible with your music.

From a club/bar's standpoint, are you bringing in and keeping people there, or driving people away? That's what it will come down to. Bands that play in 'acceptable' volume ranges will not be asked back if they can't bring/keep people. Bands who shake the dust out of the ceiling will get rebooked if they make $$$ for the place.

[Downunderwonder]

Just found out any bar here that induces a (valid) noise complaint gets a 400 dollar fine in the mail. But the current standard is 50dB, ie less than conversation, at your boundary. Unmeasurable thus unenforceable.

Practically speaking you have be inaudible over the general hubbub of town at the complainees front door so there is leeway to make a little bit of noise. Thump thump thump carries a long way though.

[Phalex]

IME you're too loud when the bartender can't understand and fill the drink orders.

[snyderz]

I hope you are wearing ear protection, or this question will be moot in a few years anyway.

[Chef FourString]

In Texas, at least where I am, its 90dB after 10pm unless you have a permit. But the cops can only take a reading from 10ft out the door. You just have to find the right kind of establishments.

He's right, you have to think about it from the bars point of view. It's all about the money. If you chase people off then you are too loud.

[JMac4strngr]

Originally Posted by snyderz

I hope you are wearing ear protection, or this question will be moot in a few years anyway.

What? come again?

[MNAirHead]

If people in the back of the room can't choose to speak with each other --- you're done.

If the bartender can't easily hear and fill a drink order --- you're done

If you don't bring in anyone and this volume level is purely self-pleasure --- you're done.



During sound check I measure 110db in the middle of the dance floor.

OVERALL.. I spent 18 months researching the state of the industry (to put together my next band) .. the overwhelming trend is lower the volume and compact the band.


Your situation may be different as you're trying to attract a fringe crowd

[Coop Soup]

I've seen a lot of loud bands simply drive people out of the room. I always have earplugs, but it's nice to not need them if I'm at the back of the room.

[treekiller]

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

If people in the back of the room can't choose to speak with each other --- you're done.

If the bartender can't easily hear and fill a drink order --- you're done

If you don't bring in anyone and this volume level is purely self-pleasure --- you're done.

This is the biggest problem most bands have and don't really know it. The venue itself can be the biggest culprit. We played a party once in a 40 x 40 x 18high shop lined with steel, anything above a whisper echoed forever. We turned down as low as we could, but even without the drums miked we sounded like a Who concert!

Tinnitus sucks!!! Once you have it, it is with you constantly for life. Mine comes from a guitard with a 100w Marshall who can't get his "tone" without driving everybody away!!!

[bluewine]

When someone from management requests that you turn down,AT that point your to loud.

[AfroCubanFunkMa]

Originally Posted by Phalex

IME you're too loud when the bartender can't understand and fill the drink orders.

This and if people are backing away and/or leaving..

[fenderhutz]

We played a show with a guy (opening act) that ran his Fender Twin reverb at full blast at ear level. You couldn't escape the 1khz horror. It was painful. He refused to turn down.

The owner never invited him back and we cut the set short.

Music is entertainment, ear damage to the crowd is unacceptable and unprofessional.

[Twocan]

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

If people in the back of the room can't choose to speak with each other --- you're done.

If the bartender can't easily hear and fill a drink order --- you're done

If you don't bring in anyone and this volume level is purely self-pleasure --- you're done.

Agreed - you have to know your audience. If the dance floor isn't full or if people are lined up at the edge of the stage, they're probably there to do OTHER THINGS (drink, talk, hook up etc) too. Your volume level can cramp that and they'll beat it.

[stflbn]

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

If people in the back of the room can't choose to speak with each other --- you're done.

If the bartender can't easily hear and fill a drink order --- you're done

If you don't bring in anyone and this volume level is purely self-pleasure --- you're done.

THis is pretty much it. When I was running sound from stage I'd always use the Bartenders as a volume meter. Needing to lean in slightly to hear an order? Tolerable. Needing to say "WHAT?" and cup an ear and say WHAT 3 or 4 times? To damn loud. In that case, you're a bar band, not a concert venue act.


.

[ugly_bassplayer]

Originally Posted by fenderhutz

Music is entertainment, ear damage to the crowd is unacceptable and unprofessional.

This

[MNAirHead]

Originally Posted by bluewine

When someone from management requests that you turn down,AT that point your to loud.

Actually.. most of the times when management has to ask.. you're done

[jive1]

Originally Posted by fenderhutz

We played a show with a guy (opening act) that ran his Fender Twin reverb at full blast at ear level. You couldn't escape the 1khz horror. It was painful. He refused to turn down.

The owner never invited him back and we cut the set short.

Music is entertainment, ear damage to the crowd is unacceptable and unprofessional.

Chances are that this guy probably has hearing damage, and can't hear that he's too loud. Or he experienced TTS (Temporary Threshhold Shift), which is temporary hearing loss or dullness in hearing due to excessive volume. Once you experience this, you have to turn up even more to hear yourself, even though it's already ear-splittingly loud. And if you have TTS, you can recover in a few minutes. But, if you are exposed to it long enough without recovery time, you can have permanent threshold shift.

I blame TTS in part for lots of volume wars in a band. You temporarily lose hearing, and then you have to turn yourself up to hear yourself again. Then others do the same. After years, I realized when I'd get TTS and I'd struggle to keep playing at an acceptable volume even though I could hardly hear myself. Then, I wised up and got earplugs. Unfortunately, most people who go to bars don't bring earplugs (although, I do). I've already had enough hearing damage, and don't need more. I'm not nearly as talented as Beethoven, and really need my hearing.

[dvh]

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

If you don't bring in anyone and this volume level is purely self-pleasure --- you're done

+ a million. Consider the motives for your sound. Is it purely self-indulgent? Does it cater to a very small segment of listeners?

[jive1]

Originally Posted by ric stave

From a club/bar's standpoint, are you bringing in and keeping people there, or driving people away? That's what it will come down to. Bands that play in 'acceptable' volume ranges will not be asked back if they can't bring/keep people. Bands who shake the dust out of the ceiling will get rebooked if they make $$$ for the place.

This

If you made the most money that bar ever made in a single night, and you are within legal limits, you can shake the rafters. Even if the bar had to pay a fine each time you play there, as long as it doesn't shut them down and makes them oodles of profit, it may be worth it to them to pay a fine of a few hundred dollars.