Classic Rock cover not doing songs right

phaneo · #1 01-30-2009, 09:12 PM

So I just tried out for and got into a classic rock cover band. Never really played much classic rock, but can play so I faked my way well enough through the first audition and was accepted. So I go home learn 12 songs as originally written, go to the first practice and realize they are playing all of them differently. Different keys...understandable, Different chord progressions.....what? They are leaving out parts etc. I tried to say "hey the original goes like this" and they just went back to playing it "their way". What do I do?

ashtray · #2 01-30-2009, 09:17 PM

Eh - depends *why* they play it that way (easier? more rockin'? etc) - and then you can judge. We've left out parts of some songs b/c the groove gets lost, and people stop dancing.

For chords, its possible the guitar downloaded a bad tab off the internet, and showed the other guys how the song goes.

playing in different keys is usually more to do with the singer hitting the notes.

Auriaprottu · #3 01-30-2009, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phaneo

So I just tried out for and got into a classic rock cover band. Never really played much classic rock, but can play so I faked my way well enough through the first audition and was accepted. So I go home learn 12 songs as originally written, go to the first practice and realize they are playing all of them differently. Different keys...understandable, Different chord progressions.....what? They are leaving out parts etc. I tried to say "hey the original goes like this" and they just went back to playing it "their way". What do I do?

IMO, the bolded part should be your primary concern. If this is an instance where someone heard what you said and did not respond to it but instead went on doing what they were doing before as tho you said nothing, walk.

If, on the other hand, they addressed your concern and want to do what they're doing, that's not a disrespect but a choice they made to do what they're doing.

Jake of Bass · #4 01-30-2009, 10:55 PM

I'd come back with the songs, both in recordings and written music and then show them your parts and how accurate they are. Then show them how they're playing them and how they differ. Then ask them if this is intended. If it is, find out why and if the answer is acceptable to you, relearn it their way. Otherwise I'd push for them to be like the original, but diplomatically, if this is what you want. Say stuff like "I think people will like the songs better if we play it as true to original as possible" is much better than "you're wrong, play it like this".

**Stumbo** · #5 01-31-2009, 02:22 AM

Even if you learn the tunes "their" way, what's going to happen when the band wants to learn a new tune in the future? If you lay it out according to the original song, I mean, do they spend time figuring out different chords just to do it "their" way? Now that may be a problem.

Skarekrough · #6 01-31-2009, 07:27 AM

Sometimes for the sake of simplicity and the need to play to the bands strengths you have to arrange a song.

You can either be "right" with the recording or you can do what the band's doing. Depends on which one you want to be playing with more.

BassChuck · #7 01-31-2009, 08:23 AM

I don't think I'd have a problem with it unless:

1.) They are playing the songs "their way" because they can't play them like the original.
2.) The crowd hates the sound of the band.
3.) All the songs are taking on the same style.

Atomik Rooster · #8 01-31-2009, 08:45 AM

Everything mentioned so far is part of the equation, but every cover band has its own approach to material based on their collective talent and individual musical sensibilities. You can be picky enough to insist that every little effect and nuance be addressed to play the song 'correctly', but the reality is that it can be hard and it's definitely time consuming to work out the details of every song. Push the issue too hard and you could find yourself looking for another band. Hell, even original bands in concert don't always do it exactly like the studio version, perhaps because of an abundance of multi-tracking or some tailored version works better live, or they just like to keep it from being stale by improvising, etc. My experience has been that the typical audience for a cover band likely won't notice a lot of things or mind if it isn't exactly right as long as it's played like that was your intention and played to the best of your ability within that scope. If they respond to it favorably, there's no problem. Worst case is that you have to unlearn the studio version to accommodate the will of the band. Overall that will make you a flexible and better player. Go with it.

dvh · #9 01-31-2009, 08:54 AM

Great response Atomic. I quit a band because the keys player was way to picky and dogmatic about being true to every part of a cover.

JustDavid · #10 01-31-2009, 08:59 AM

Great points above!!

Saying this not to be argumentative but to add perspective; the best cover band won't be as accurate as a mediocre DJ.

Bluesbreaker5 · #11 01-31-2009, 09:00 AM

Spot on, Atomik!

ChrisB2 · #12 01-31-2009, 09:04 AM

Man, I have this exact - same - problem.

In my case, the bandleader simply does not know some of the songs well enough to nail the rhythm, meter, and lead-ins to the next line. But this band is not a democracy so the suggestions of "I think it goes like this" are not always heeded. We all have input, but there is definitely a leader, and the rhythm guitarist just watches the bandleader's hands and changes chords when he does.

It really sucks when you can nail a recorded bass line, but your bandleader only does three beats before starting the next verse on a 4/4 song. Completely throws me off, which makes me look bad because he and the other guitarist do the same thing, and of course the drummer just rolls right along, but I'm scrambling to catch up because he completely left off a beat.

Last practice, I pointed this out in a certain song where the bass progression is crucial to the song sounding like what people expect to hear (at least IMO haha). I had the other guitarist sing and play along with me (he knows and can follow the recorded songs) and the leader says "yeah I need to work on that" but he really is not very good at correcting when he can't get the lead-ins right. I'm not sure he even knew what the problem was.

Otherwise he's a great guitar player and a good singer, and as long as I learn his quirks, we sound good. But MAN it's frustrating to know you're doing your part right but it's "wrong" because they all do it different.

This has nothing to do with the notion of "making it our own," I think we all probably do, and should do that, nor is it about me wanting to duplicate a recording exactly. This is about simply making mistakes that shouldn't happen.

BTW, I've worked with other leaders with this problem, what is it with these guys? Ego?

Vetchking · #13 01-31-2009, 09:06 AM

Vetchking Here:

One of the one first things I learned early on is....... The Guys on the record are Right.

Learn the record note for note...... It's good for your musical brain. Learn it by ear. Most sheet music is wrong. Once you do this over some time, you can learn songs on the drive over to practice. LOL....... It's true.

Not to discount a band doing their own thing with a song, Over the years we have structured some killer arrangements of songs. The secret here is we know how it went originally. we knew what to keep and what we could change.

Most times if your guys have the wrong chords and wrong parts its simply because they can't figure them out or their lazy. Period.

If you can't play certain sections of songs........ DON"T DO THE SONG.

Example: Van Halen "Jump".... If you can't play the comps under the guitar solo, let the song go. LOL.

Ps. This training will also help all of you that want to do originals. It will teach you how music goes. I can't tell you how many bands I've produced think they are going to re-invent the wheel. Their not!!!

Were not going to learn top 40 songs, etc? We doing originals mentality? UGH

Once you learn how music goes the originals start to shine...

Have a Great one........... Later

JustDavid · #14 01-31-2009, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisB2

only does three beats before starting the next verse on a 4/4 song.

as long as I learn his quirks

That's not a quirk. That's screwing up.

NS2A · #15 01-31-2009, 09:12 AM

What exactly are they doing different though?

For example, in my first cover band, we played One Way To Rock by Sammy Hagar. The main riff is sometimes played once, twice or 4 times between verses. The five of us could never get it, so we just played it twice every time. No one ever said anything and it sounded fine.

Now, if you're doing Sweet Child O Mine, it better be note for note, because everyone knows every single note of that song.

Joe Nerve · #16 01-31-2009, 09:16 AM

I would just be up front and ask them if they would like to play the songs correctly, or if they're intentionally changing them - and make a decsion from there. Seems they're happy the way they're doing it and if you're not everyone would be better off if you just found a different band.

The amount of money, crowd they draw, etc. would weigh heavily in a situation like this for me. If they're packing clubs I'd play the songs however they wanted. If they're fighting for their money at the end of every gig (or not yet even gigging) - I'd move on.

One of the cover bands I played for played lots of stuff wrong, BUT they also had lots of people coming to their shows and it was a solid and steady paying gig. They were open to corrections and in time many things were fixed. Other things they said it was just simpler to do "their" way and it was fine. People go to bars to get drunk, get laid, have fun and forget their day. Not to see how perfectly a band is playing. I can't tell you how many awesomely talented bands I've seen make no money at all, and how many total crap bands I've seen make tons of money. I'm only in the covers thing for the money. I guess you'd have to ask yourself what you're in it for also.

von buck · #17 01-31-2009, 09:28 AM

I like playing covers, but I hate doing record copies.

Andy

dmusic148 · #18 01-31-2009, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vetchking

Most times if your guys have the wrong chords and wrong parts its simply because they can't figure them out or their lazy. Period.

+1. Happens all the time. You'll get used to it. Or quit. I got used to it.

phaneo · #19 01-31-2009, 10:37 AM

Vetchking was right on

"Most times if your guys have the wrong chords and wrong parts its simply because they can't figure them out or their lazy. Period."

I think this is really the issue. I spent 6 years in a cover band that would omit the bridge because it was too difficult to duplicate, or rock the song harder than the original, do a reggae or punk version etc. So I get that. It's just that Simple tunes like Foxy Lady played in E instead of F no problem. Deep Purple Hush played completely unlike the original not acceptable, it's as if the singer started singing the melody and the guitar player figured out some chords to go along. Really odd, nothing "original" about it. Right now they aren't even gigging, but I'm in a tough town to find a band. So I think I will stick it out and in the future as we learn new songs I will at least try to present the recorded song and bass line the go from there.

Thanks for all the response guys!

Beyer160 · #20 01-31-2009, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atomik Rooster

Hell, even original bands in concert don't always do it exactly like the studio version

Very, very true. Listen to any live album of a "classic rock" band, and most of them wouldn't pass muster as cover bands. An excellent example of this is Cream- the live versions of their songs sound almost nothing like the studio versions. Not that they sucked, but the songs were recorded in a way that made them impossible to duplicate as a live 3-piece band. Try playing "White Room" exactly like the record- you can't.

A lot of times the studio version of a song only exists on record- the band went into the studio playing it one way, then the producer changed the arrangement and/or the band added extra parts to it, then they went back to playing it the "other" way afterward.

I always felt like if you wanted to hear a song exactly like the record, just play the record.