Click Track on pro job?

[ZonGuy]

A weekend church job switched to a click track in the headset. They use a mix of contract players and members. Some of the crew not to snuff, so the management decided this would help.

I don't have a problem. I have used click tracks before on a variety of live and session work, but......

1) They decided that to improve performance, they would click 8th or 16th notes, instead of the usual quarter notes. Qtr notes are fine. But I think it is ridiculous and a real pain to work with 8th or 16th clicks. No click on the one, btw. Has anyone else ever done this? I am a pro and I can subdivide in my head just fine according to the requirements.

2) The folks that really need the click apparently have it turned off in their headset;

3) The operating procedure is one measure of clicks and your in - no visual cue. One song went from a rubato singer/piano at 50 BPM with no click, then 8 clicks (ie 4 qtr notes) at 85 BPM and the guitar player/piano player in playing a specified figure. The guitar player was pretty miffed. I would be also if I was in his shoes.

I am thinking about passing when the next job their comes up, which is a shame because I like the music and the people.

Your thoughts?

[ZonGuy]

A weekend church job switched to a click track in the headset. They use a mix of contract players and members. Some of the crew not to snuff, so the management decided this would help.

I don't have a problem. I have used click tracks before on a variety of live and session work, but......

1) They decided that to improve performance, they would click 8th or 16th notes, instead of the usual quarter notes. Qtr notes are fine. But I think it is ridiculous and a real pain to work with 8th or 16th clicks. No special click on the one, btw. Has anyone else ever done this? I am a pro and I can subdivide in my head just fine.

2) The folks that really need the click the most apparently have it turned off in their headset;

3) The operating procedure is one measure of clicks and your in - no visual cue. One song went from a rubato singer/piano at 50 BPM with no click, then 8 clicks (ie 4 qtr notes) at 85 BPM and the guitar player/piano player in playing a specified figure. The guitar player was pretty miffed. I would be also if I was in his shoes.

I am thinking about passing when the next job their comes up, which is a shame because I like the music and the people.

Your thoughts?

[Chebass88]

Here's my advice: You can't make Chicken Salad out of Chicken $hit.

If the people who NEED the click either ignore it or turn it off, then there is nothing you can do to force them to stay on tempo. You can subdivide the beat into 64ths, or 128ths, and it won't help.

If the pay is good, grin & bear it. Otherwise, life is too short to play with idiots who can't play in time.

imp

[svtb15]

I do an occasional Church gig and they use a click.. I Like it. But they use Avioms so i can adjust the volume.. I like it as loud as the drummer. The drummer is great and makes the Click disappear so i stay in sync with that.. I Like t9o turn off the Guitards since they ALWAYS play way on top of the beat. They think their delays will cover there sloppiness i guess...

But we have an accent on the One..
Regardless of the click you still need to have visual ques or atleast EVERYONE has to be paying attention.. If one guy slacks off and is not in the start off they can be a while 8th note off or more..
Personally I LOve the click.. I hate when others are not listening to the drums since they .. We have click that the drummer controls... And the drummer will always click off each song.. The songs are set up in the Metronome cliker in sequence so he can go from one song to the next easily and fast with no down time

Originally Posted by ZonGuy

A weekend church job switched to a click track in the headset. They use a mix of contract players and members. Some of the crew not to snuff, so the management decided this would help.

I don't have a problem. I have used click tracks before on a variety of live and session work, but......

1) They decided that to improve performance, they would click 8th or 16th notes, instead of the usual quarter notes. Qtr notes are fine. But I think it is ridiculous and a real pain to work with 8th or 16th clicks. No click on the one, btw. Has anyone else ever done this? I am a pro and I can subdivide in my head just fine according to the requirements.

2) The folks that really need the click apparently have it turned off in their headset;

3) The operating procedure is one measure of clicks and your in - no visual cue. One song went from a rubato singer/piano at 50 BPM with no click, then 8 clicks (ie 4 qtr notes) at 85 BPM and the guitar player/piano player in playing a specified figure. The guitar player was pretty miffed. I would be also if I was in his shoes.

I am thinking about passing when the next job their comes up, which is a shame because I like the music and the people.

Your thoughts?

[bkbirge]

I hate subdivided clicks. IMO, the drummer should have a click (if anyone has) and everyone else follow him. That keeps it organic but still in time. Of course if you have guys that can't play to a click you are in trouble, but that won't change if you just give everyone a click. The trouble person/people will still have the troubles but now the band will sound even more out to lunch. I prefer my time base to be the drummer's interpretation of the click, when there's a good drummer that is. Also, one measure before in is stupid. 2 measures should be the standard. Gives you time to internalize the tempo change and pick up any intro 3's or 4's.

[WalterBush]

A few thoughts.

A) Those who are being paid should definitely be able to produce a near flawless performance, or they don't get paid.

B) Those who aren't being paid should be possibly reminded by whoever is in charge of worship that putting their talent to use for God in front of the entire congregation is a privilege, and should consider spending more time practicing at home. If I turned off a click or failed to perform up to par I'd be yanked off stage and encouraged to worship in the congregation, at home, and in my daily life, but not lead it in front of the church. Just saying. Reminding people who they're supposed to be playing for isn't a bad idea, or even rude.

C) Let the worship leader handle it. It's their responsibility, and if they're willing to put up with slop, fine, that's their call.

D) Where possible, and without being rebellious or disrespectful of church leadership, maybe suggesting moving towards an industry standard, i.e. two measure lead-in and quarter-note clicks, would help. What works for others will work for you. I know, despite the above statement, that I'd be tempted to turn down a click full of 8th notes, and 16th notes would be downright distracting.

[Mesmerize-16]

Sounds like you should talk to the management about changing the click and making it more user-friendly. If the people who really need it have turned it off, talk to the management about that as well. If they need it and won't use it, maybe the management needs to find replacements.

[fretlessman71]

Methinks they'll figure it out when no one wants to play there anymore, you think?

[Ívar Þórólfsson]

Your two nearly identical threads merged.

[ZonGuy]

Thanks, Ivor, for fixing this.

I log in. I type message. I hit send button. TB says I am not logged in.

I log in (again). I hit send button. And get two threads.

[msquared]

Originally Posted by Chebass88

Here's my advice: You can't make Chicken Salad out of Chicken $hit.

This about sums it up.

Playing to a click is a skill which has to be worked on in order to bear fruit. It's like playing with dynamics or slapping or doing clean doublestops. You don't just take a player who has never done that stuff and expect them to be really good at it without practice.

If you already aren't listening to the rest of the band, a click isn't going to help much. Sure, it's got more transient information so it's easy to lock in on, but it's not like locking in with a band is tough to do. It just requires suspension of ego and listening.

[mutedeity]

I am all for click tracks to be honest. Plenty of people use them on a professional level, both live and in studio. When it comes to people with poor timing though, I don't think click tracks will solve anything if they can't follow the timing of everyone else.

Personally I think quarter notes should be adequate for most applications unless you have a particular odd time subdivision of 8ths that occurs as a one off and leaves you with the click on the off beat. In that situation I would think that a customised click would be the way to go.

I personally would rather follow a drummer playing to a click, if playing with a group where there is a drummer involved. The exception to that is where the drummer rests while other people are playing alone. If you are playing accents, for example where there is no constant with the drums, like ride or hi hat, then it's probably best for everyone to play with a click. Having said that everyone should be following each other and not just the click.

Other than that I can and will play comfortably to a click track on my own. I think this is something any decent musician should be able to do.

[Christopher]

Originally Posted by mutedeity

When it comes to people with poor timing though, I don't think click tracks will solve anything if they can't follow the timing of everyone else.

+1. Click tracks are a great benefit in the studio when everyone's parts are under the microscope. But if a player has to rely on a click live, he/she's not up to snuff, IMO. I think it's better long-term solution to replace the nonperformer(s) than to chain everyone to a click.

[winstonthecat]

I just started playing with a band that uses click tracks, and I find it helpful. The setup is that eveyone (including drummer on V-drums) plugs into the mixer, and we hear each other through our headsets.

I've adapted pretty quickly to this, and it is great playing with a drummer with a more solid sense of time, and a click track to keep eveyone in line.

However, our singer/guitarist, who sometimes starts off the songs, doesn't quite get it yet. He will sometimes start off on the wrong beat, which makes the click almost useless, since we have an accent on the one.

[mattq]

i can't stand click on just the quarters. i gotta have eighths. that's just when i'm in the studio though. i've never heard click while playing live. click in the in-ears at church is a good idea though and one i've brought up a couple times at my own church. especially if you have rotating members. but to the op, if you're getting paid, just sit back and try to enjoy yourself. you get to worship God through music and get a paycheck at the end of the day. what could be better?

[51m0n]

IMO & IME a click on anything but quarters tends to stifle the swing within the beat that adds up to a groove.

Better yet get the click on 2 & 4. Then you can accent the feel around it completely, takes a different aproach, the click really is a guide to time, the feel is entirely up to the players.

Lot of people really dont like that though, they find it very very hard to do.

In any event anyone being paid shouldnt need a click. Although it may help if the non-paid people are really messing the time up. In which case the non paid people shouldnt be playing - since they arent up to the job.

I've used click live, but it was more of a pit job than your normal gig, and was apparently required to get the stage lights etc and the music to sync up. Dont know how well it worked - I couldnt see the lights

[MakiSupaStar]

Playing with people with bad tempo fluxes makes you look bad in the long run. Run away. Run away fast.