Copywrite questions?

Mr. Kitty · #1 08-13-2008, 12:44 AM

Also sorry guys if this is in the wrong forum. I did the best I could in placing this one.

Well here's what's happening. Recently i started a new band with 2 of my friends who were interested in forming a funk/jam band.
Now this was like a blessing from god because what i was playing was like...punk/metal. and I really don't like that. But i do like funk and jam music. So when my two friends signed off on that idea we were off to the races.

The first practice went exceedingly well and ended up writing a song. But one thing left to do! Get a band name. We finally decided on the name Jedi Radio. I love this name but i am conserned about copyright here.

And I honestly know nothing about this type of stuff so i needed to see if anybody on here could tell me about this.

Now Jedi, I'm assuming, is a trademark of Lucasfilm. I'm assuming.
But i can't find any written thing saying it is. And even if it is, i can't firgure out how we could get access to the rights!

I don't know. I just really like this band name and want to do whatever possible to keep it but I am stuck worrying about this whole copyright issue.

Could you guys help me?

oh and sorry if i wasn't clear on anything..
which i'm sure i wasn't.
just tell me and i'll try to explain.

BlackLake · #2 08-13-2008, 12:55 AM

First of all it's Copyright

Secondly, you can't copyright a word or brand name, you can however trademark them.

Highly doubtful that the word Jedi is in any way protected, so go for it, the worst/best that can happen is they approach you on it and BAM! you get all the free press you can handle.

StyleOverShow · #3 08-13-2008, 12:57 AM

I don't think that they (the owners of Jedi) will bother you if you are small enough. If you start to make money, then they will come and notify you (cease and desist order, etc).
Until then, use the force...

JaneBass1 · #4 08-13-2008, 11:44 AM

You might have issues with that name. I did ask a copyright question once and already did my homework.
Recently there was some issue from apple, as they wanted to trademark the word POD and sue everybody who uses that word. It's ridiculous but they have the money to do it.

You need to hire a lawyer to do the trademark. And is going to cost you approx:
- $500 for a trademark search
- $1000 for lawyer fess
- $300 for government fees
- If the trademark is rejected and you want to appeal, you have to pay the lawyer for the hour ($100 to $300 per hour)

So if you have lots of $$ do it. But since Jedi is such a common word from Lucas, I would say is a very risky business.

OtterOnBass · #5 08-13-2008, 11:49 AM

My common sense talking: It's not used as a trademark, it's a noun in a fantasy story. If they titled the movie "Jedi," or named something else, then it would be a trademark.

Just for comfort, go to an official star wars web site and find the word jedi to see if they mark it as a trademark. If you gain some notoriety you can expect that George Lucas's lawyers will talk to you, since he's known for carefully guarding everything connected with his creations.

dystopiate · #6 08-13-2008, 12:02 PM

The law is never black and white, and intellectual property law is particularly murky.

Here's the long and short of it:

Star Wars has become a part of western culture to the point that "Jedi" has ceased to be Star Wars specific. This weakens their ability to hold ownership over the word (even if they've already trademarked it).

When Apple wants to trademark something like "Pod", it does not open the door for them to sue for damages from the makers of the AquaPod, the pea pod, or the pod people. It does allow them to stop Microsoft or other competitors from making the MicroPod mp3 player, however. On a related note, Apple owns the patent on the wheel that allows you to scroll through songs and folders with such ease. In spite of this, there are an army of knockoffs that use the same kind of wheel technology. Why? Because they're too small and shady to be worth suing. If Apple sues them, it'll cost Apple $, the shady company will never pay up (they'll just fold), and it'll bring to the public's attention that there are viable alternatives to the iPod all around.

Nevertheless, if anything related to George Lucas wants you to stop using the name AND pursues it legally, they'll be able to crush you with their legal stormtroopers. However, the likelihood of them caring before you reach Miley Cyrus level exposure is zero. If you guys are the next big thing, a legal battle over the name can only do you good.

Use the name if you want.

iandmcelroy · #7 08-13-2008, 12:07 PM

I think there is a gray area here. Jedi isn't one of his businesses and Lucas has no company names trademarked with Jedi. He does however have the word Jedi plastered all over his movies and video games and bedsheets but it's used as a pronoun and as far as I know you can't trademark a pronoun as itself. If you add context to the pronoun you could because it is then adding context to your business and business plan but if that context infringes on someone else's business or business plan then you have opened the door for litigation.

Example:

You couldn't trademark "Eiffel Tower" but you could register "Eiffel Tower Pizza".

Depth_Charge · #8 08-13-2008, 12:27 PM

So you can trademark "Eiffel Tower towers"?

One thing I would do if I wanted to keep a band name is not splash it on the net for all to see

If it was my choice, given the band or brand will never encroach or threaten any market LucasArts is predominantly involved in, and has no intention to (film/TV/merchandise vs music...right?), I'd take the risk and just do it.

Worst case scenario you get forced to change the name, get all the PR, reform as "Our lawyer told us to change the name of this band", start all over again with Pete and the Fall Out Boyz and be just as popular for the names you come up with and the PR than the music. Come on, all bands need a hook!

kvane · #9 08-13-2008, 12:29 PM

It seems the overall general consensus is correct. If you're low level on the popularuty/monetary pole then no one is going to bother coming after you, it's not "worth" their time or expenses. However, funny thing about patents: Once you patent "something", you specifically own that "something"; but if you maintain a "Platent Applied For" status on that "something" then no one, legally, can even make a copy. For example; Apple's touch wheel: Apple owns that patent, so therefore, no one else can use that exact piece of technology other than Apple; but since it has been patented, now other companies just need to do a slight difference in that same technology in order to legally use it. Whereas, a "P.A.F." or "Patent Applied For" status pretty much leaves the park closed. Because now you have a legal right of infringement on anyone who even tries to copy such technology, because "you" are still developing it. When it comes to words, yes, you can own specific trademarks that could be a created word or combination thereof. Just because you don't see a trademark symbol don't assume that it isn't. You should start your contacts with P.R. (public relations) and they should point you in the right direction as of who in legal you need to talk to.

BlackLake · #10 08-13-2008, 12:33 PM

Any money spent on trademark search etc will be money well wasted guaranteed.

Just go for it, Lucas wont give it a second glance, the worst he can do is force you to change the name....and he has better things to do with his time.

If you are that worried about it...use the oldest trick in the trademark biz.

JediRadio....claim it as one word, not two...problem solved!.

Depth_Charge · #11 08-13-2008, 01:01 PM

As a single word, JedirAdio (pronounced Jedderahdyo) has a better ring to it though

Emmaemme · #12 08-13-2008, 01:11 PM

I can see all those posters announcing your comeback in years to come reading... "Return of the Jedi Radio".

Brilliant

GaryM · #13 08-13-2008, 01:15 PM

Here's some links to Jedi trademark filings:

http://tarr.uspto.gov/tarr?regser=se...Request+Status

http://tarr.uspto.gov/tarr?regser=se...Request+Status

http://tarr.uspto.gov/tarr?regser=se...Request+Status

http://tarr.uspto.gov/tarr?regser=se...Request+Status

I don't see anything specific about bands in there but there is stuff about "entertainment" so you might be on shaky ground. You certainly would have problems if you ever tried to produce merchandise, e.g. clothing, with your band's name on it.

BillyC · #14 08-13-2008, 01:24 PM

You don't trademark a band name..it's called a servicemark and you can file a intent to use the name,but you have to play interstate within a certain period of time or the name goes dead.. If you only play in your own state it's money wasted.

Google is your friend,if noone else is using it,go for it.

awakefie · #15 08-13-2008, 01:27 PM

How about Jed Eye Radio? J.E.R for short.

GaryM · #16 08-13-2008, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyC

YGoogle is your friend,if noone else is using it,go for it.

Umm, I used Google to find Lucasfilm's trademark filings. Seemed better than arguing about what "common sense" said was the answer.

barbarbass · #17 08-13-2008, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OtterOnBass

My common sense talking: It's not used as a trademark, it's a noun in a fantasy story. If they titled the movie "Jedi," or named something else, then it would be a trademark.

Just for comfort, go to an official star wars web site and find the word jedi to see if they mark it as a trademark. If you gain some notoriety you can expect that George Lucas's lawyers will talk to you, since he's known for carefully guarding everything connected with his creations.

Actually, they use the word "Jedi" in one of the titles: "Return of the Jedi."

Someone above had it right -- that word "Jedi" is subject to trademark. You won't have a problem until you get big enough to get noticed. The only question -- when is "big enough"? When you're playing to 100-person clubs? 2,000-seat basketball arenas? Wembley Stadium?

No one can tell -- but at some point, you will be approached by Lucasfilm's attorneys.

The trademark regime is designed to ensure that origin of goods is easily identifiable and predictable from the use of marks in trade. It used to be that trademark was this weird little backwater of the law -- not as prestigious as copyright and not as technical as patent.

Having said that, however, it is quickly attaining a copyright-like or patent-like status in courts. Be careful with this one.

**Thor** · #18 08-13-2008, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barbarbass

Actually, they use the word "Jedi" in one of the titles: "Return of the Jedi."

Someone above had it right -- that word "Jedi" is subject to trademark. You won't have a problem until you get big enough to get noticed. The only question -- when is "big enough"? When you're playing to 100-person clubs? 2,000-seat basketball arenas? Wembley Stadium?

No one can tell -- but at some point, you will be approached by Lucasfilm's attorneys.

The trademark regime is designed to ensure that origin of goods is easily identifiable and predictable from the use of marks in trade. It used to be that trademark was this weird little backwater of the law -- not as prestigious as copyright and not as technical as patent.

Having said that, however, it is quickly attaining a copyright-like or patent-like status in courts. Be careful with this one.

There are two components to maintaining a trademark.
First is registering it.
Second is vigorously defending it.

Coca-Cola will vigorously defend. As will many other big brands,
since if they do not, it can be deemed to become
part of the vernacular and the trademark lost. It is sufficient
to send a nasty cease and desist letter to demonstrate
that.

Examples of words that used to be TM: Elevator, Escalator,
Kleenex, and so forth. Xerox copy.

Mr. Kitty · #19 08-13-2008, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iandmcelroy

I think there is a gray area here. Jedi isn't one of his businesses and Lucas has no company names trademarked with Jedi. He does however have the word Jedi plastered all over his movies and video games and bedsheets but it's used as a pronoun and as far as I know you can't trademark a pronoun as itself. If you add context to the pronoun you could because it is then adding context to your business and business plan but if that context infringes on someone else's business or business plan then you have opened the door for litigation.

Example:

You couldn't trademark "Eiffel Tower" but you could register "Eiffel Tower Pizza".

Okay thanks everyone for the help.

Real quick a couple of other questions:
first of all, what do you mean by jedi has become a pronoun?

and another thing:
i have an idea!
but tell me if we used the name, Jedi's Radio, would that separate ourselves enough from the word Jedi that we wouldn't have to worry about copyright or trademark or whatever?

ha

Rick Auricchio · #20 08-13-2008, 11:07 PM

You're not necessarily off the hook with any form of Jedi.

In the 80s, when AT&T owned the Unix operating system, their trademark restrictions prohibited the use of the word "unix" in any form. Not as "Unix's this and that," not as "unix-like," not in any form.

And it's all dependent on how strongly the trademark holder wishes to defend. They can sue and you must go to court, whether or not they really have a case. It'll cost you big bucks to show up...even if they lose.

But let's forget Lucas for now. Suppose another band decides they like the same name. Will you be prepared to take the other band to court? If not, just use the name and worry later about it.

Now let's get real, to put it bluntly. Either your band will get big enough that you can afford to sue someone else, or your band won't go anywhere and it won't matter to you.