Digitech Vocalist harmonizer

Laserman · #1 04-12-2008, 10:48 PM

Guys,

Any of you in your bands use this new harmony machine? I've heard and seen the demos on Utube and I'm pretty impressed so far and considering buying one. Get one of these in your band and say hello to perfect 2-4 part vocal harmonies all night.

Barry

IanStephenson · #2 04-13-2008, 08:37 AM

I've got one, though I don't use it much at the momment. Mine's one of the older ones.

It worked best for me when I had it hooked up to a keyboard. There are various midi modes - you can let it figure out the chords form the notes, or what I found worked great was to have the keyboard player singing the BV's and the Vocalist shifting his voice to the notes he was playing - effetively he's playing his own voice on keys.

There are also modes where you can select a key/scale, and it guesses harmonies, or where you program in the chords in advance. However these all seemed like a lot of work to me. They can work well though if you put the time/effort in, but it's one more thing to go wrong.

They do sound pretty amazing, and while they sound quite fake on their own, in the mix they should be fine. If I was gigging playing keys again I'd definately use it. For a lower tech band they may be more trouble than they're worth.

Ian

Fnord Explorer · #3 04-13-2008, 08:41 AM

Make way for the "learn to sing!" comments.

Laserman · #4 04-13-2008, 02:25 PM

Ian,

The new Digitech Vocalist listens to your guitarist via guitar in and through inputs and selects the harmony key automatically while you select the 3 or 5th harmony above or below the key. Check out utube and see the demos there. Pretty amazing and really simple to use with NO programming. The guitarist in my band thinks he can sing backup, but in reality he stinks and isn't even close on any of his harmony parts. And to be honest, I'm not much better at harmonies and prefer not to sing harmoney at all. With no other singers besides out lead vocalist, we could really use this devise.

Barry

lawsonman · #5 04-14-2008, 06:45 AM

I use one all the time .Great piece of gear.I sing all the lead vocals and use it for harmonies on songs our keyboard doesn't sing.Easy to use and sounds great.

ElectrAcoustic · #6 04-14-2008, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord Explorer

Make way for the "learn to sing!" comments.

+1, you're about to hear it.. Maybe the technology has improved but I played in a band with a singer that wanted to use one a few years back and it sounded really unnatural. The band totally boycotted the device after the 1st gig and the singer left it at home from then on. Funny thing happened at that point, a few of us took some singing lessons, learned all the backup parts and even wrote a few harmonies.. band sounds great now.. big wall of vocals that can easily be recreated in a living room or a theatre.. crazy how that works.. Best of luck..

bigfatbass · #7 04-14-2008, 04:08 PM

Fine if your gig is called Mayor McCheeziness and the No Efforts.

Sure, if you're making a demo, working out things, it's a great idea. But to think this is anything other than phoney-baloney garbage for a live act is beyond me.

Be careful when you set the bar that low, you may trip over it.

lawsonman · #8 04-14-2008, 06:37 PM

Maybe you guys just needed someone smart enough to run it.And if you think it sounds "phony baloney" live, you obviously have never heard one used right.I play with good musicians all with over 35 years of gigs under their belts each and they have no problems with it at all.

Fnord Explorer · #9 04-14-2008, 07:15 PM

I have no interest in learning how to sing (or being involved in backing vocals at all) but if it works for some backing vocalists, more power to them. I'm too busy playing bass, tap-dancing my pedalboard, and actually putting on a show to worry about yet another thing.

My band uses sequences because our keyboardist doesn't have six arms and our vocalist uses effects because he's not six people. If it's an added part of the sound of the band I think it's great. If it's a crutch for your vocalist then there are obviously other issues at hand that need addressed.

lawsonman · #10 04-14-2008, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord Explorer

I have no interest in learning how to sing (or being involved in backing vocals at all) but if it works for some backing vocalists, more power to them. I'm too busy playing bass, tap-dancing my pedalboard, and actually putting on a show to worry about yet another thing.

My band uses sequences because our keyboardist doesn't have six arms and our vocalist uses effects because he's not six people. If it's an added part of the sound of the band I think it's great. If it's a crutch for your vocalist then there are obviously other issues at hand that need addressed.

+1

Laserman · #11 04-14-2008, 11:07 PM

Well,

The New Digitech vocalist does not sound unnatural at all. Go to Utube and see some of the demos there. Pretty amazing.

Barry

ElectrAcoustic · #12 04-15-2008, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawsonman

Maybe you guys just needed someone smart enough to run it.And if you think it sounds "phony baloney" live, you obviously have never heard one used right.I play with good musicians all with over 35 years of gigs under their belts each and they have no problems with it at all.

All due respect.. challenging the intelligence of anyone that disagrees with the whole philosophy of having one of these to begin with isn't helping your cause man. Do whatever you want, just know that it's considered a Milli-Vanilli / Britney Spears crutch when used the way you describe.. So, what happens when the unit needs repairs, or the fuse blows out during the show.. do you cancel the gig..? might as well lip-sync to a cd...d...d...d... Oh, better make it a DAT tape or an iPod..

QORC · #13 04-15-2008, 09:04 AM

drum tracks, midi tracks, digital harmonizers...

I lose respect for bands that use these live. It's pretty much blurring what is live any more. I played with a band that used midi tracks for other instruments for some songs. It made me cringe.

I know a band that actually has a keyboardist who doesn't know how to play, so "fakes" playing while the track plays underneath her!! Why have her? So she could sing and being a tribute band, they needed to have a female keyboardist. I mean, to each his own, but...If you're not creating the music up there....entirely on your on...you're just a half-step above a karaoke act.

bigfatbass · #14 04-15-2008, 09:50 AM

There is a legit niche to play the cruise ship sound with a solo/duet and a bunch of sequenced nonsense. I never said anything about it sounding bad. I just said it is a bunch of phoney-baloney BS, which is exactly what it is. There are people out there who care little enough about music to enjoy that kind of thing, so have at it.

If I am watching a band and hear more than one voice, but only see one person actually singing my response is to laugh out loud and make a quick exit from amateur night. I walked out of ZZ Top back in the 80s for just that reason. Multi-millionaires on the top grossing tour of the year can't be bothered to spring for a rhythm guitar player? See ya DAT tape band, I'd rather watch a kid at their first open mic night butcher a 3 chord song. At least I'd be witnessing something with integrity and a performer whom had not lost all respect for music as a window to the soul.

When I hear the defense "there are all these parts to play" I just think of all the amazing players who can own a room into a dancing frenzy with one guitar and one voice. Hell, Taj Mahal can do it stomping one foot and repeatedly hollering one single line.

Reading the responses I see where I misunderstood. You don't trip over that bar because you've laid it on the floor.

BadB · #15 04-15-2008, 10:00 AM

I had a lead singer/guitarist that used one (Digitech) about five years ago. He sequenced it via MIDI to all of our tunes, (covers). The guy was actually a phenomenal singer, too. He did a great job and the harmonies sounded pretty good. The problem was that he put in four-part harmonies to every song, whether there was supposed to be harmonies or not. We sounded like a barber shop quartet.

He also absolutely cranked the volume on them, making it sound very unnatural and seriously taking away from the quality of his voice. He wouldn't listen to me.

I would say that a harmonizer is fine, if used sparingly and subtly. Thank God my current band doesn't do any of that crap, though. It made me very uncomfortable.

nortonrider · #16 04-15-2008, 10:27 AM

If using this thing is somehow "cheating" (phoney-baloney BS), couldn't the same be said for using any bass effect? Delay, chorus, etc..
I'm all for whatever makes the music sound the best.

rakirksey · #17 04-15-2008, 10:28 AM

I'm not going to make any "you should learn to sing" comments, but I have a guitar player friend who uses one and it sounds great.

He primarily uses it on his duo gigs with his brother on drums. His brother actually does do harmonies as well, so it ends up being a ton of layered vocals which represent what he did on his self-produced album. Actually last time I saw him, he also was using a POG that he had hooked up to a bass amp.

If you're compensating for something, then probably "learn to sing" ... but if you using it to fill in for something that is impossible to do with the number of people you're playing with ... go for it.

QORC · #18 04-15-2008, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nortonrider

If using this thing is somehow "cheating" (phoney-baloney BS), couldn't the same be said for using any bass effect? Delay, chorus, etc..
I'm all for whatever makes the music sound the best.

Hardly. Because you have to play the instrument to make it happen.

Someone else's harmonies? Someone else's prerecorded keyboard parts, horn parts, guitar parts, drum parts? It's not anyone in your band actually playing the instrument. I think there is a HUGE difference.

If we followed your point of view, then we shouldn't use PAs or any amplification at all?

There is a difference between shaping a sound you created...

and using a digital recording of something you didn't do, including harmonies.

nortonrider · #19 04-15-2008, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QORC

Hardly. Because you have to play the instrument to make it happen.

Someone else's harmonies? Someone else's prerecorded keyboard parts, horn parts, guitar parts, drum parts? It's not anyone in your band actually playing the instrument. I think there is a HUGE difference.

If we followed your point of view, then we shouldn't use PAs or any amplification at all?

There is a difference between shaping a sound you created...

and using a digital recording of something you didn't do, including harmonies.

Fair enough! How about looping? since you ain't actually playing it, you're playing a recording of what you just played. overdub

QORC · #20 04-15-2008, 11:35 AM

recording is different than playing live. Besides, even with looping, at least YOU created the recording -- not something you bought (or stole) that isn't you but someone else.

If you're playing live, you should be "live". All of it. None of it prerecorded or faked (instruments and vocals. I realize sometimes you stick in sound effects to sound like the real thing - thunder or a motorcycle or something...that's understandable but everyone KNOWS you're not really creating that).

You go down that road, live music will be nothing more than some Milli Vanilla/Ashley Simpson farce. I respect people that pull off songs, despite not having every instrument in the original recording. I respect groups that work hard and credibly do their own harmonies (it ain't easy). I don't respect these "live-oke" groups at all. It's a joke.