Dilemma: Great person, non-musical chops

Guiseppe · #1 10-02-2007, 11:59 AM

Kinda feeling bad about a situation I've been working through the last month or so. I took a gig w/ a guitarist and drummer that found one of my ads online, have done 2 others w/ them since. They're great people with good hearts that really enjoy playing out. Bottom line, however, is that the guitar player, while he has all the right toys, just isn't very good (and he makes a living doing guitar lessons...go figure). He has a hard time playing standard rythm chops and seems to go into a very wierd "chop" lick that migrates back and forth between that lick and whatever seems to happen to his hands. Also, he's got a knack for adding beats at the end of a "solo", thereby adding the element of confusion when and where we're supposed to go back to the verse. The drummer and I have discussed this privately, and wound up saying "screw it, we'll do it right and let HIM come back around to the right place". On top of this, he'd like to believe he's the second coming of Jimi and insists on trying to play w/ his teeth, behind his back, etc. He is sold on my playing, and has made comments several times that my playing is distinct around here and he's not wanting me to leave for greener pastures.

Bottom line is, he's a really nice guy, and I hate to be the bad cop...but he's frankly not good enough to gig with regularly...I won't play a gig w/ him in a place where I would know someone because, truthfully, I think I'm better than "that" sound. I know the right thing to do is to just be forthright and say that I just don't feel the "groove" with his band...but I hate the thought of 'dissing' someone's chops.

Any comments/experiences you've all had along these lines?

Thanks for your comments, and keep on thumpin'!

casualmadness · #2 10-02-2007, 12:09 PM

Tough spot to be in but ultimately you have to put yourself first. I was in a similar situation several years ago. I was in a band with some good friends. We all had descent gear and we gigged every now and then but one of the guitards was pretty timid about playing leads. But once we finally got him to open up and embrace the stage, we realized his timing was pretty horrible. With rythm, he was dead on. But solos would get all screwed up. So after a few private conversations, we confronted him. We did so very tactfully and sugested that we all work a little harder; so that he didn't feel singled out. But he flipped out. He insisted it was a with hunt and there was no way his timing was off but rather it was all of us who were off and we should adjust to him. Needless to say, the band parted ways very soon. But that incident taught me to always do what's right for me. If it's wrong, walk. You don't have to be an ass to the guy. You can be tactful. If he takes it personally, that's on him.

Oh! Henry · #3 10-02-2007, 12:19 PM

You've just describer my exact situation, except worse, you need to take him by the hand wherever we go, even the basic stuff like where to place his pedals on the stage!!! I've been very patient, and have tried helping him out with some riffs, and sound issues. He's a great guy, and one of the most generous people I've ever met. But it's become too difficult to overcome. I find that my own playing suffers, because I'm not concentrating on my groove, I'm listening to his constant mistakes. After a year of saying it'll get better, I've finally decided to call it quits.

My opinion, is do it now, while it's still sort of new. Cause the longer you stay, the more you'll become friends, and the harder it will be when you finally do get fed up (and you will get fed up) These feeling will not get better.

Good luck

Geddyfleaharris · #4 10-02-2007, 05:26 PM

Man don't keep tell him to stop playing with his teeth and behind his back. You will wreck the crowds fun! LOL Just tell him to do it better.

Seriously though, I think you should move on. I have been in situations like this and just figure who the heck am I to tell someone that they suck at their instrument. I am not out to ruin someone's self esteem. If the guy was a real prima donna and a royal pain in the butt then maybe you might drop a hint that he ain't all that. But your post says they are good guys so you might as leave on decent terms.

anonymous38457747 · #5 10-02-2007, 05:35 PM

Can't say I liked any of your poll options...however. If you value the guy as a friend then let him be, you don't need to play with him anymore if you don't want to. If it embarrases you, then you should go. He obviously isn't embarrased so why put him down. I don't see why anything other than, "it was fun, but I need to move on" needs to be said. Find another project that you can click with and invest yourself in it. Or don't it doesn't matter. If you don't want to play there then it is best for you to move on.

I don't think you need to tell him how great he is if it isn't what you think...believe me that lie will bite you later. Just discreetly move on. Don't burn the bridge, but don't shine it either.

Just my $.02

chaosMK · #6 10-03-2007, 11:44 AM

We fired our drummer after about 2 years because his skills never got there. It was an uphill battle for me from day one and I'll never go through that crap again!

Guiseppe · #7 10-03-2007, 06:00 PM

Thanks for all your input. It does make me feel like I'm not totally out in left field!

After a heart-to-heart, we're going to start to focus on bass-centric tunes from the 70's that are my bread and butter and don't require lead guitar...it will require more rehearsing for him to get the parts down, but I have to admit, his passion for playing is refreshing (he's 50, but has a 19 y/o mentality about playing). So, the bottom line seems to be - so far - that I pick up the lead parts in some new music, and he backs the chops off.

Lesson from all this: My pride in my ability doesn't have to come between being a good guy.

funeralfiend · #8 10-03-2007, 06:10 PM

Yeah dude, I just went through the same thing with my drummer. Really awesome guy, but yeah, just wasn't cutting it. My guitard ended up calling him, and he was totally cool, and we still hang out to this day.

morf · #9 10-04-2007, 07:35 AM

I didnt like the poll options either. Tell him with the drummer that you guys arent satisfied with how he plays and discuss with him the way you would like him to play.

mdrummer5 · #10 10-04-2007, 07:45 AM

As a drummer in a band I could not deal with something like that. Our first guitar player was exactly as you describe your current issue. My advice is to tactfully tell him you don't want to do any more gigs and if he asks explain why. He might get angry but if he does it's likely because he sees the truth behind what your saying and hopefully that will make him grow as a musician and MAYBE he'll thank you for it later.

Bottom line you should never continue a gig that your that unhappy with regardless of how cool the people are. It's just hard if you want to keep friends.

disenchant · #11 10-04-2007, 10:26 AM

I'm on the other side of that fence right now. I'm the person holding back the band and they just got another bassist.

I think it really all comes down to the person and their attitude. Some people suck but they really think they are awesome and they aren't willing to work or correct it. Someone like that you should let go.

What I tend to hear the most is musicians are unreliable, they're premadonnas, they're lazy and they have egos. If you've found someone that isn't any of those things, you can teach the technique. It's hard to change a person's personality. It's easy to change their skills.

My band feels really bad because I show up smiling every practice, I practice at home, I love playing and I take criticism well. But, the songs they want to do are out of my skill range and they don't want to change their songs and that's OK. Some bands are willing to change the songs for the person, others aren't. And my band wants to get out playing fast. So they have a new bassist, and he's really good and experienced but he has an ego. So, it all comes down to what you're willing to deal with.

Me, I'm going to move on to a punk project. I think punk will be more my style and I hope to grow with this band instead. Everyone sucked at one point on an instrument...it's how hard they work that determines where they are going to go!

Ron Plichta · #12 10-04-2007, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disenchant

...and he's really good and experienced but he has an ego.

That means sooner or later the band is going to be calling you back. I've learned to adjust songs if the right attitude is there but the chops aren't. I have no patience for egotists.

jwl · #13 10-04-2007, 11:27 AM

a true friend would tell the truth, however there is more to good band mates than just chops. a good drummer and a good bass player can pretty much make any tune palateable. imo.

jeff

casualmadness · #14 10-04-2007, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disenchant

he has an ego...

That's enough to make me walk. I can tolerate a lot of things but I've never been able to tolerate egotistical jerks. No matter how good you are, someone out there is better. Just my $.02

disenchant · #15 10-04-2007, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Plichta

That means sooner or later the band is going to be calling you back. I've learned to adjust songs if the right attitude is there but the chops aren't. I have no patience for egotists.

I think that's the idea. They want someone good so they can play now (they've been in the basement for a while) and meanwhile they want to get me better so when he walks, which I'm sure he will eventually, I'll be ready to rock.

That's a good plan. Except I'm good enough to play now, just not songs like Tool and Disturbed.

I personally think if a person is teachable, that is worth more than all the talent in the world + ego.