Drummer problems...

[sackvegas]

Little back story...

Been in this band almost 3 years, joined up with a Guitard and drummer who have been friends their whole life, been playing music together since high school.

The main problem is he tends to speed up/slow down constantly and can't seem to keep a solid tempo whether playing live or recording.

I love the music and we all get along great so I don't want to bail and cause they've been friends for so long firing him isn't an option.

So...What are some excercises we can do as a group to clear up this tempo issue?

Is there some software we can get that we can run through our PA to use as a metronome? Any counting excercises I can pass along to him?

Thanks in advance

[jmattbassplaya]

Get him a click track.

[Intune]

I just bailed on a band that I have played with for years. The drummer couldn't keep time even with a click. He had other "issues" as well.

He's the lead singers roommate. Git player & I said we need to move on with a diff drummer, singer said, "no, ya'll just need to move on..."

That's all I'm gonna say about that, we wish them the best of luck.

[nonogz]

Originally Posted by sackvegas

Little back story...



I love the music and we all get along great so I don't want to bail and cause they've been friends for so long firing him isn't an option.

NOOOOO you cannot think of it that way. been through it. if he's not cutting it, and you've mentioned this timing issue to him before, you have to let him go. its not personal, its business. if he's mature he'll understand

[P. Aaron]

Originally Posted by nonogz

NOOOOO you cannot think of it that way. been through it. if he's not cutting it, and you've mentioned this timing issue to him before, you have to let him go. its not personal, its business. if he's mature he'll understand

Do you want sloppy drummer to drag you down into his world as well?

I am in a similar spot right now. I want to work with musicians that force me to improve my game week to week.

I get very impatient with folks that show up at rehearsal to learn songs.

[cheamo]

I would think a drummer that practices with a metronome lots will get better timing. How long it will take is another issue....

[roceci]

Agh I've been here very recently with a friend of mine. Does the guitarist have a problem with your drummer's timekeeping too, or are they such good buddies he doesn't care/won't discuss it with you? If the latter, bail now, there is no hope.

If the other, sit down with the guitarist, make it clear you love your drummer to bits but something needs doing. Get a strategy between you. Gently at first, make sure you stop every time he goes out (or he'll never learn), be positive & encouraging in your choice of words. If he's getting funny about being pulled up, again, bail. Nothing will change him, leave him to his warped little view of what drumming in a band is.

If he starts to come on, great. Praise him & only then introduce him to the idea of the click to accelerate the learning curve (I've found drummers who are sloppy timekeepers get very scared if presented with the idea of the click too early on). Keep in mind tho, if his playing is otherwise passionate as is often the case with inexperienced drummers who rush & slow down, that's a good quality, so don't click the soul out of him! Seen that happen before now.

Of course, if the guy's a talentless idiot with no hope of improving, bail yesterday.

Just my two cents based on playing with bad drummers.

[sackvegas]

Thanks for all the advice guys, does anyone know of a click we can use through the PA?

We have a computer at the jam space for recording, is there a program we could get or DL?

He is passionate about the music and actually a very good drummer (if that makes sense) i.e. the beats he comes up with are great and he's also good with arrangements and helping with the song writing, it's just the timing is downright horrible at times and makes it almost impossible to lay down solid lines when the beat is all over the place.

I was thinking of showing up to rehearsal early with him to go over some timing excercises together, I think we'd be a really good rythm section if we could somehow fix this.

Any excercises you guys have would be great

Thanks

[sackvegas]

Roceci: The Guitard does have a problem with it but definatly won't ever kick him out, we have talked about it together but never seem to come up with a viable solution, it was actually one of the reasons our original singer left the band, he never came out and said it to us we found out through the grape vine and never told the drummer about it.

Hopefully we can fix it!

[P. Aaron]

Originally Posted by sackvegas

Thanks for all the advice guys, Any excercises you guys have would be great...

Thanks

A recommendation I made to our drummer is to not dig in too much on the beat itself and to not get caught up in the sycopation process to the point that the groove suffers.

He only took my advice after I took his sticks, sat at his kit, and played what he was trying to figure out...as the rest of the band watched.

[Vakmere]

Originally Posted by sackvegas

Little back story...

Been in this band almost 3 years, joined up with a Guitard and drummer who have been friends their whole life, been playing music together since high school.

The main problem is he tends to speed up/slow down constantly and can't seem to keep a solid tempo whether playing live or recording.

I love the music and we all get along great so I don't want to bail and cause they've been friends for so long firing him isn't an option.

So...What are some excercises we can do as a group to clear up this tempo issue?

Is there some software we can get that we can run through our PA to use as a metronome? Any counting excercises I can pass along to him?

Thanks in advance

Friends or not, staying with poor time keepers will hurt you in the long run and give you poor timing because this is what you are used to...find better musicians.

[groooooove]

[Marko5657]

I think you’re wasting your time. A self-taught drummer who never trained to a click has learned bad habits that I don’t think he can overcome.

Playing bass to it makes it noticeable to us, but nobody else will notice it and the product won’t necessarily suffer.

If you like the situation otherwise, I’d suggest you just live with it.

If you ever make it “big”, then a studio drummer will likely lay those tracks anyway.

[John Wentzien]

There's a free computer metronome to download "TempoPerfect"

That said---It will probably not help IMO.
If he has bad time, he'll just be speeding up or slowing down to keep up with the metronome.
Work on playing simple grooves with him, just bass and drums--no fills---no metronome.

[Brent Hahn]

Sounds like your friend is a good person with bad time. He can still be your friend long after he realizes that good people with bad time don't belong in rhythm sections.

Have a good drummer over, and either just jam or work on a few tunes. That should he enough to tell you what you need to do.

[ForSix]

Originally Posted by sackvegas

Any exercises you guys have would be great

Thanks

First thing to do is to pay attention to beats 3 and 4.

This is where most rushing occurs.

Especially between beat 4 and the downbeat.

[DanAleks]

This is actually not too difficult to fix. Here's what he needs to do when he practices at home:

Set the metronome at its slowest tempo. It should be so slow, you can go out for a sandwich between clicks.

Have him play paradiddles with each note on the click of the metronome.
For the uninitiated, a paradiddle is RLRR or LRLL.
He'll want to do it as a continuous string of RLRR LRLL RLRR LRLL

Have him work this with these permutations:

R = right hand L = left hand
R = right hand L = left foot
R = right hand L = right foot
R = right foot L = left hand
R = left foot L = left hand
R = right foot L = left foot

Do each permutation 20 times every day.
10 times starting with R, 10 times starting with L.
One "time" is either RLRR LRLL or LRLL RLRR.

Do these for 2 weeks, then up the speed by 1 click.
Keep increasing the speed, by one click, every 2 weeks.

This will increase his speed, fix any tempo problems and improve his independence & co-ordination between his hands and feet.

Please PM with questions.

[bassybill]

Originally Posted by DanAleks

This is actually not too difficult to fix. Here's what he needs to do when he practices at home:

Set the metronome at its slowest tempo. It should be so slow, you can go out for a sandwich between clicks.

Have him play paradiddles with each note on the click of the metronome.
For the uninitiated, a paradiddle is RLRR or LRLL.
He'll want to do it as a continuous string of RLRR LRLL RLRR LRLL

Have him work this with these permutations:

R = right hand L = left hand
R = right hand L = left foot
R = right hand L = right foot
R = right foot L = left hand
R = left foot L = left hand
R = right foot L = left foot

Do each permutation 20 times every day.
10 times starting with R, 10 times starting with L.
One "time" is either RLRR LRLL or LRLL RLRR.

Do these for 2 weeks, then up the speed by 1 click.
Keep increasing the speed, by one click, every 2 weeks.

This will increase his speed, fix any tempo problems and improve his independence & co-ordination between his hands and feet.

Please PM with questions.

This is great advice from Dan. I approve of this message.

Most drummers don't actually have "bad time". A few might, but generally the problem is more to do with poor limb independence and coordination that then throws them off the rhythm and makes it seem like they can't follow a beat. The sort of exercise mentioned above can really make a difference to that (and there are plenty more along the same lines, too).

[Intune]

Originally Posted by Marko5657

I think you’re wasting your time. A self-taught drummer who never trained to a click has learned bad habits that I don’t think he can overcome.

Playing bass to it makes it noticeable to us, but nobody else will notice it and the product won’t necessarily suffer.

If you like the situation otherwise, I’d suggest you just live with it.

If you ever make it “big”, then a studio drummer will likely lay those tracks anyway.

I have to respectfully disagree with just this part. Everyone can "feel" the "wrongness" of it, with the exception of real drunk ppl. We played all originals but would occasionally throw in a cover or two if the mood hit us. People would crowd the dance floor at first & then begin to thin out during the song, you could watch it happen... They might not know it's the drummer but they will say it felt "weird" or something to that effect.

We had a really bigtime booking agency interested in us, they came to see us live, mentioned timing issues during a follow-up call, interest faded away.

I guess it comes down to how important the music is to you. I told our singer that a true friend would be there, in or out of the band. He wasn't willing to risk it. I left the band.

[Rocker949]

In all honesty, if the guy can't even keep time, ultimately he is just wasting everyone's time.