Drummercensorship.

[Vynns]

Evenin' all,

There's a question that's been on my mind for a while now, but it hasn't been very urgent for me to answer it. This has changed recently. Situation is as follows:

I've been in a trio with my drummer for quite a few years now, making instrumental music because we had trouble finding singers. The drummer is a very good friend of mine I've known for many years and I know we have very *very* different opinions on politics. We differ on lot of things actually, but politics has always been our, shall we say, verbal battleground. We'd get into heated discussions and tear eachothers heads off. We knew we weren't going to agree, but at the end of the day we just accepted that. Things were good.

However.

Things have changed. I was getting sick of solely making instrumental music. I felt we'd have more opportunities to get gigs if we'd have a singer. Plus, I have things I want to get off my chest, ideas I want to share with people and views I want people to hear and think about. Through music. So I told my band I wanted to sing as well as play bass. They weren't very confident in my singing talent, but after having done a sort of audition with them, they were pleasantly surprised and deemed me fit to sing. You feel where I'm heading with this?

Exactly. As soon as we started incorporating lyrics in our music and covering some songs we liked, drummerboy kept putting his foot down. "I don't wanna do that song, I don't believe in the message". "I don't wanna do this song, I don't agree with the jist of it". And to top it all off, he veto'd covering Black Sabbath's War Pigs, a song he proposed we'd do, saying the lyrics don't sit right with him.

MAN I'm getting annoyed with his crap. But on the other hand, I can imagine how he feels, I wouldn't want to sing a song about stuff I don't believe in either. Thing is though, I think authenticity in singing is very important and I have stuff I want to say, know what I mean? I don't want to end up only singing songs about love or sex or alcohol or whatever, just because we both agree about it.

Bah. What do you guys think? I know that I should decide if I want to make my money as a musician, and if I do, there's no other choice but to leave the band or kick him out. It's just, we started making music together you know? Dude's not a half bad drummer either.

I say again. Bah.

[tranceFusion]

this sounds like something that is really for you to decide, though having two projects going on and once sounds like the most obvious answer to me..

[Jmassie]

Just tell him to get over it and enjoy the damn music and not be a drama queen.

My drummer Is Christian with a strong republican attitude. Im a Buddist Hippie who has Obama stickers on his bass. Hes actully my best friend regardless of our opinions, and we play everything from the grateful dead to Rush, regardless of the 'message'.

Your drummer may Just be an ass.no offense


Just my 0.02

J. Massie

[Geddyfleaharris]

Seriously I barely know the words to most of our songs and they are originals. Been like that all my life. I remember phrases but the whole song forget it. Maiden are my all time fave band but I couldn't for the life of me get through a complete set of lyrics by them. Messages? Huh?

As Jmassie said tell him to stop being a drama queen.

[thesteve]

If you wouldn't sing a song about things that you don't believe in, then why should the drummer drum on songs with a message he doesn't believe in?

Unfortunately, as the singer you are the voice of the band. The words that come out of your mouth represent the beliefs and ideals of the band...

plus imagine this interview if you guys ever made it big:
Reporter: So, you guys are really into <political stance>
Drummer: Actually, I think it's a bunch of BS, but the singer digs it.

[bamabass]

if your a band, songs are a band decision. If you want to make a statement the band as a whole does not want to make...find a new band or a side project. If you want him to respect you choice to do a song for "political" reasons, you need to accept his choice to NOT do a song for those same reasons. If not, you tell him your opinion is more important than his. Its kinda like the TB rules...certain things do not get discussed. A band needs to be in agreement. If not, it wont last long.

[Derek_L]

Just ask him about what he wants to play, go along with it regardless of the message. After a little while start asking about a few songs you want to play - he will probably feel too guilty to say no.

My 2 cents anyway haha,

[ErebusBass]

Originally Posted by thesteve

If you wouldn't sing a song about things that you don't believe in, then why should the drummer drum on songs with a message he doesn't believe in?

Unfortunately, as the singer you are the voice of the band. The words that come out of your mouth represent the beliefs and ideals of the band...

plus imagine this interview if you guys ever made it big:
Reporter: So, you guys are really into <political stance>
Drummer: Actually, I think it's a bunch of BS, but the singer digs it.

In an interview somewhere Kerry King (lead guitarist of Slayer) was asked if he believes in all of the things said in their lyrics. King's response was something to the effect of "Dude... I pray." If it's good music who cares what the dude is saying.

[Stumbo]

Hey, you're the lead singer in the band (who also plays bass). Sing whatever you want to sing. Only with your vocals will you get anywhere. Since you carry the band, find another drummer (who can do some vocals as well).

"I don't want to end up only singing songs about love or sex or alcohol or whatever, just because we both agree about it."

On second thought, if can agree about those things, what's the problem with all the other stuff?

[the_fonz]

Originally Posted by ErebusBass

In an interview somewhere Kerry King (lead guitarist of Slayer) was asked if he believes in all of the things said in their lyrics. King's response was something to the effect of "Dude... I pray." If it's good music who cares what the dude is saying.

good example

In addition to that, Tom Araya is a diehard catholic
just my $0.02

[MyUsernameHere]

I'm confussed...is he against War Pigs because it is militaristic, or because its message is anti-military/industrial complex?

If you guys have a problem picking material, why don't you change your approach to it. Instead of picking covers that appeal to your own egos, pick songs that you think the audience would appreciate and play them with the thought of it being a sort of public service...not a reflection on your individual political/religious stances.

Save the drama for the original material you write. If he wants a say in the songwriting, let him collaborate.

[thesteve]

Originally Posted by ErebusBass

In an interview somewhere Kerry King (lead guitarist of Slayer) was asked if he believes in all of the things said in their lyrics. King's response was something to the effect of "Dude... I pray." If it's good music who cares what the dude is saying.

I've never really listened to them, but I've had the impression from reading the King and Araya interviews that Slayer's more controversial songs are that way for shock value.

As far as Araya being a "diehard Catholic"...Catholic perhaps, but I've never seen him describe himself as being particularly devout.

I dunno, maybe I'm just off on this one.

[Stumbo]

There's a lot of great band management advice in the following TB stickie: If only I knew then what I know now...

One of the things brought up several times was to get in a band where the motivation level of each member was the same.

Take a read through the thread a see if anything might be applied to your group.

[RiddimKing]

Find a normal drummer. I mean, one who cares more about beer than politics. Situation fixed.

[TripleXL]

I've been in a few bands over the years playing mostly covers and one rule that has worked well for us is that if someone wants to veto a song, for whatever reason, that's fine but before we stop playing they need to come up with another song that we all like to replace it in the set.

Despite the efforts of one or other of us to ditch them we've got a few songs that have stayed in our set because they go over big and we can't come up with another tune that we all like that works as well.

[Psycho]

Originally Posted by thesteve

I've never really listened to them, but I've had the impression from reading the King and Araya interviews that Slayer's more controversial songs are that way for shock value.

As far as Araya being a "diehard Catholic"...Catholic perhaps, but I've never seen him describe himself as being particularly devout.

I dunno, maybe I'm just off on this one.

He's said it in a few interviews before, if I remember. Araya has said it's for shock value, and i'm pretty sure King has too. What's really funny is King throws a big fit about religion when Tom is up there singing.

[Slater]

Message, smessage!

If you're playing covers, then it's the orginal artist's message, not yours. Furthermore, a cover-band should put together a collection of songs that are familiar, and promote nostalgia to the audience. A good beat is way more important than the "message" for a cover band. Your band should enjoy playing the covers you choose, but if you don't make the audience happy, eventually you won't have one.

Also, going by the info in this thread, it seems like the drummer just wants to say "black", if you say "white". It may be time for you to part ways...

[Elrend]

My band consist of one Hindu immigrant, One conservative guy with firm capitalist beliefs and im mostly a hippie/socialist guy, and we
get along just fine. So stop being such dramaqueens and just play!

[rzpooch]

I would dump the drummer and get one that can sing. I also think the rest of the band should sing as well. Take lessons if you need to, but everyone should sing!

[GreenFunkGuy]

Originally Posted by Derek_L

Just ask him about what he wants to play, go along with it regardless of the message. After a little while start asking about a few songs you want to play - he will probably feel too guilty to say no.

I am in the same situation as you, I'm a bass player and I play w/ only my drummer who I've known & played with for years. When he doesnt like something I dont take it personally, the critiques anyone provides should be constructive. I suspect he may be saying no because he doesnt want you singing and was happy with the band before lyrics became an issue. Thats something you're going to need to talk to him about. He may just need to accept the way the band is now going, or you should start a side project. It might also simply work to change the band name and try to start from square one, just with the same people, as a different band.

I hope it all goes well!