Economics of an originals band

[TBrett]

Originally Posted by ShoeManiac

The economics of original bands are perpetually difficult. The OP has definitely outlined some of those challenges. But it's definitely worthwhile to look at both your possible revenue streams as well as your costs.

There's definitely the potential for far greater financial upside to an original act. And that's because of the varied revenue streams that simply don't exist in the cover world.
-Gig money
-Merch
-Music sales (both CD's and downloads)
-Monetizing a YouTube channel (advertising)
-Licensing

If you're able to build a decent fanbase the gig money can start to roll in. But the flipside is that it can take a considerable marketing investment to get people to know about you. That eats into your bottom line, but once word gets out about your act social media can start to carry you.

Recording costs can definitely be a significant financial offset to gig income. We're dealing with that issue as well. But when you pay for your own recordings, you own them. You don't owe them to someone else. That means you're in the drivers seat if a label comes knocking with either a signing or a distribution deal. You've also got the option of licensing the music out as you want. Even indie bands can license material, and I know that there's always someone looking to license music: commercials, tv shows, video games, etc.

Merch? Some bands can make more on merch than on anything else. It can really be all about finding the right artists to design your merch, and then finding a good deal to get it manufactured. Some venues are now demanding a cut of the artists merch because they recognized that they were making significant cash selling product on their premises, so they decided they needed to get a cut.

All of these potential revenue streams require an investment to get them going. You have to invest in rehearsal and gear in order to play the shows. You've got to invest in recordings to sell your music. And you have to invest in the design and manufacture of your merch in order to sell that, too. At that point it comes down to keeping a close eye on your expenses and trying to balance that out with the income.

Quoted this entire post because it's right on. You've got to look years down the road in most cases. I know Blue likes to say being in an originals band is young man’s game, but in fact, I think it takes a certain level of experience and maturity to turn an independent band into a viable business these days. Anyone naïve enough to think they’re going to get signed to a label and “make it” is in the wrong business. Our band has been together three years. We have one album under our belt and have the material together for our second. No, we don’t make any money. Yes, it’s expensive. We pay for weekly rehearsal, and are not yet at the stage where merch is a feasible expense. But it will come. We’re all pretty experienced in the industry in one way or another. Long term focus is most definitely on marketing on the business side, while we continue to write and perform on the creative side. I think we’ll be doing well if we start to make any money in the next couple of years. This is most definitely a long term business.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by bassbully

Work? Explain, if you are in a cover band (and I know you are) you don't know what work is like being in an originals band.

Both take a lot of work originals or cover bands before the gun starts.

Blue

[hrodbert696]

I haven't tried it myself, but one approach I know of other bands around here taking is not to pit covers against originals, but to do both; put together a cover set and gig that for revenue, then turn the revenue around and use it to fund originals recording. Of course, that means the individual band members aren't really getting paid, but it means you can do the recording without its being an out-of-pocket money pit.

[tycobb73]

Originally Posted by bluewine

The term "fun" is used pretty loosely. We can't forget there's work involved in getting to the fun part.

Blue

The work is fun too. I've been playing guitar lately more than bass. The first real solo I'm tackling is the Aqualung solo. I've worked on that thing for 2 weeks, at least an hour a day and I'm about 3/4 of the way through it. To me that work is fun.

[bassbully]

Originally Posted by bluewine

Both take a lot of work originals or cover bands before the gun starts.

Blue

Depends on how you look at it. I used to run the originals band as a buiness or more like and it suked..big time! I want away from the work buisness end of music for it smashes all my joy and happyness I was getting from music.

I walked away from another activity years ago that I was known pretty well in that circle for. I got sick and tired of the buisness end.
I dont want this to happen to my music. The word work is in my main job. if i have to work in music anymore I'm out...I hate it.
Today it is what it is and I'm not going to sweat it...just go play an have fund let the biz run off. It's not worth the stress it creates and the strain on myself for a couple of hundred dollars extra a month. If I wanted that I would go get a second job and quit enjoying the hang, fun and creativity music gives me.

[bassbully]

Originally Posted by Blue_Whistle88

Originals bands aren't supposed to be "economical". If you don't agree with that, look me dead in the eye (metaphorically speaking) and tell me that The Sex Pistols were "economical". Music is about wanting, not needing, and the sooner you can appreciate and become comfortable with the fact that it is an unnecessary part of society, the sooner you can get back to enjoying the simplicity of playing.

If you have some kind of "higher ambition" when it comes to "making it" or "getting big" or anything like that, even if it's just hypothetical, well good luck, but don't be surprised if you end up frustrated, one way or another. "Music" and "music business" (read "busy-ness") are not the same thing.

Well said. look at the Ramones they had albums out worldwide and toured endlessly in a station wagon for years.

I NEVER got into originals music to make it or did my bandmates. We never talk about it and its never been and issue. We just want to be the best local, regional band we can be to record gig and have fun...and we have.

[lowfreq33]

Originally Posted by Blue_Whistle88

Originals bands aren't supposed to be "economical". If you don't agree with that, look me dead in the eye (metaphorically speaking) and tell me that The Sex Pistols were "economical". Music is about wanting, not needing, and the sooner you can appreciate and become comfortable with the fact that it is an unnecessary part of society, the sooner you can get back to enjoying the simplicity of playing.

If you have some kind of "higher ambition" when it comes to "making it" or "getting big" or anything like that, even if it's just hypothetical, well good luck, but don't be surprised if you end up frustrated, one way or another. "Music" and "music business" (read "busy-ness") are not the same thing.

The Sex Pistols were put together by their manager as a business venture. They were all about economics.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by bassbully

Depends on how you look at it. I used to run the originals band as a buiness or more like and it suked..big time! I want away from the work buisness end of music for it smashes all my joy and happyness I was getting from music.

I walked away from another activity years ago that I was known pretty well in that circle for. I got sick and tired of the buisness end.
I dont want this to happen to my music. The word work is in my main job. if i have to work in music anymore I'm out...I hate it.
Today it is what it is and I'm not going to sweat it...just go play an have fund let the biz run off. It's not worth the stress it creates and the strain on myself for a couple of hundred dollars extra a month. If I wanted that I would go get a second job and quit enjoying the hang, fun and creativity music gives me.

Interesting, I am finding the art and creativity elements of playing are not my focus.

I really enjoy the entertainment and business functions if a band, it's fun.

Blue

[bassbully]

Originally Posted by bluewine

Interesting, I am finding the art and creativity elements of playing are not my focus.

I really enjoy the entertainment and business functions if a band, it's fun.

Blue

Really? Maybe you should hang up your bass and be a promoter?

Music is an extention of my soul and I feel like the other art's we all have it in us in some respect. Some need little effort to extract it, others need to work on it to be decent and others have no passion to ever try...all cool. But to me the love of music is my passion and creating it and playing it fuels me all the more.
The is buisness of music has been dammed by most who done it have it including almost all professionals past and present..it stinks.

The local level music world is nothing compared to say the Stones and their buisness but we deal with allot of issues in an originals band and it can be that dirty word "Work " to just survive.
I had to have others members step up in the band I am in since I told them I was
done and burned out of trying to promote and book our originals band. The other band I am in I let them set up gigs, etc and they are happy to do it.

In coverbands I was in in the past it was just drop off a demo and get the gig..easy! At least in my experiences. I'm not sayin this to knock coverbands in fact its a draw and benefit, one I have to maybe face someday.

Do I continue to have to work/fight to survive in an original music scene or cave and play covers for more money and less issues to deal with?

For me to say the buisness end of music would ever be more enjoyable than being creative and performing would have me out in a hurry. To suffocate my creativity and take away the art in anything I do would be the end right there..Today!

[6jase5]

All money that we make goes in the band fund which usually has about $1K to 2K in it. It's used for recording (we only pay for mastering - former Bob Ludwig protege/employee and old friend of mine which is a great connection which anyone can use), and merch (stickers, tshirts) and PA gear. We all make different money - waiter, teacher, laborer and then me the only "corp" guy. Nobody pockets the money despite my telling them it's ok by me.

We are lucky to make $100-$300 playing an original show around LA, SD and Arizona. We dodge pay to play. I'm old and have no delusion of getting the chance for touring again (did that 4 bands and 2 labels ago) but my band is young.

[BigRedX]

I don't know what it's like in the US, but here in the UK it's certainly possible to make money playing originals.

I play in both a covers and an originals band.

My covers band is a bit of fun. A chance to play some of my favourite songs from my youth and get paid for it. We don't do very many gigs and originally I though it was because we were a bit average really, but having seen some of the other bands on the same circuit as us, we're no less average than they are, so it more likely because we simply don't try hard enough. And ultimately it's a fairly thankless task. Most of the time we're regarded as being a small step up from having a DJ - in fact IMO most of the pubs/venues that put us on would be better off with a video juke-box containing a decent selection of songs attached to a big screen than messing about with live music. We have to get in stupidly early to set everything up (generally including lights and PA) and are still there packing up long after the last punter has gone home. The audience is a mixture of friends and family of the band and random punters who'll shout all night for songs that we don't know how to play. We get paid what looks like a decent amount, but when you split it 5 ways and count up the hours spent on the gig it doesn't even make minimum wage.

My originals band (Dick Venom & The Terrortones) is A LOT OF FUN. For the last 2 years we have had on average a gig every week and nearly all of them have been paying ones. We are up and down the country from Newcastle to Brighton, playing to enthusiastic and appreciative audiences. We've worked with some fantastic promoters who know how to put on a great gig and look after the bands they have booked. Our gig fees and merchandise sales cover all the running costs (transport, rehearsal rooms etc) of the band and what's left ever goes towards recording and promotion. We've got to this stage by working hard to get gigs and then once we've got them by giving a performance that will be remembered! Most gigs we do result in a rebooking by either the venue or promoter and often lead to yet another gig through someone in the audience who is either a promoter or who knows someone who is, and recommends us.

Previously in this thread people have said that audiences want songs that they know. I don't think this is entirely true. Audiences want to be entertained. Playing songs that they already know is an easy way to do this, but if you give them something worth watching and listening to then the music doesn't have to be immediately familiar. It' should be any band's intention to give the audience something worth leaving the comfort of their homes for (where the beer is probably better and they are less likely to stick to the floor), something more than what can be captured in just an audio file. It's all about realising that you have to give more than just the music.

We know that the gig is more than simply getting up on stage and playing the songs. We look and act like a band and not like some random people who've wandered in off the street and picked up the instruments. We interact with the audience - especially our singer who likes to get up close and personal and the playing is well rehearsed and tight. The music might be essentially a noisy racket with shouting and theremin but it's a highly entertaining noisy racket with shouting and theremin.

And as a result we get re-bookings, we sell a decent amount of CDs T-shirts and other merchandise. We're already pretty much booked every week between now and Easter of 2013. Unless the gig is all about promotion (supporting a well known band) we expect to be paid our travelling costs, be fed and watered at the gig and if necessary be put up for the night, and we've been asking for and mostly getting this since our 4th gig.

And finally I'm not so sure anymore that playing originals is the territory of the younger musician. IMO the days of "making it" by signing to a record label are pretty much gone. The money nowadays is in gigging, and that's very much do-able without the need for a label backing you up. Also us "older" musicians tend to have a bit more disposable cash to help ease the way and get the band financially started. There's a good chance that come 2013 I'll have to quit my covers band because I'll be too busy rehearsing, recording and gigging with my originals band. It's already got to the point where income vs. expenditure the originals band is a better bet.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by bassbully

Really? Maybe you should hang up your bass and be a promoter?

No, that wouldn't work because I also need the attention being on stage brings.

Hang up my bass after all these years? Never.

Right now, I'm starting to think about how to move up to the next notch if it's possible. Moving from $400.00 gigs to the $1,000.00 - $1,500.00 gigs.

Blue

[Marial]

Originally Posted by bluewine

Interesting, I am finding the art and creativity elements of playing are not my focus.

I really enjoy the entertainment and business functions if a band, it's fun.

Blue

Then you're in the right niche. For you.

[bassbully]

Originally Posted by bluewine

No, that wouldn't work because I also need the attention being on stage brings.

Hang up my bass after all these years? Never.

Right now, I'm starting to think about how to move up to the next notch if it's possible. Moving from $400.00 gigs to the $1,000.00 - $1,500.00 gigs.

Blue

Well l know we are not all the same but I have never met another musician yet who puts the buisness end of music over the art and creativity of it. To me that makes no sense at all and standing on stage phoning it in for money would not be fair.

If you truly are only in it to stand on stage to be seen and for the buisness end of music leaving creativity and art out of it I feel sorry for you. You don't know what you are missing from music.

[Pacman]

Originally Posted by bluewine

Right now, I'm starting to think about how to move up to the next notch if it's possible. Moving from $400.00 gigs to the $1,000.00 - $1,500.00 gigs.

Blue

From everything you've said, those gigs don't exist in your town.

[bassbully]

Originally Posted by Pacman

From everything you've said, those gigs don't exist in your town.

Not in my neck of the woods that is for sure. How can a weekend warrior make that kind of cash?

[RonniePudding]

I've been in Albany for a while, and while music is definitely in the hobby category for me, I've met a few pros over the years for whom music is their full time job. Without execption, they all have multiple projects, some of which are playing standards/covers. Many of them have music-related side jobs to help pay the bills (recording engineer, teacher, etc.).

A lot of my friends are musical, and a few of them have truely great writing ability and/or technical/performance skills. 1 or 2 of them have had original projects for years and get local respect and gigs in good places. They all have day jobs.

Playing originals (at least in this town, IMHO) is something you do because you love it. And you make a CD because you want to record your thing for posterity and share it, even though it will cost you some $ to do so.

I have a lot of respect for those few people I know who make their living by playing in cover bands, but it looks to me like a lot of work. I wouldn't call it an easy job, or a lucrative field.

[Blue_Whistle88]

Originally Posted by lowfreq33

The Sex Pistols were put together by their manager as a business venture. They were all about economics.

You obviously didn't read what I wrote very carefully. Managers, booking agents, promoters, etc all exist for the PURPOSE of making money from music. Their job consists of monetising the art form and changing it from an act of expression into an act of entertainment. There's a big difference between those two things.

Expression only requires some human audience presence, of any number, to become validated and reciprocated. The more people the better, up to the point where the audience becomes so huge they have to be moved further away. Read: stadiums. Bands grow to that highest point if they "make it", but traditionally that point is followed by the band's demise because there's a limit to how much you can grow.

Entertainment, on the other hand, can't function properly without a minimum threshold of audience numbers. Below that threshold, it will cost money and thus deter those who prop the system up. Consequentially, it's a self-defeating cycle because the bands have to generate enough interest themselves or the industry won't go near them, but if you can generate interest in your own band, why do you need the business people?

Answer: you don't. Those people and their activities exist to foster the illusion that "bigger is better" when it comes to audiences. Bigger and bigger crowds give you a bigger rush, but it's the same as any other addictive process in that you could get bored regularly playing to, say, 5000 people, if you just do it THAT much. The game is to get the musicians addicted to that rush and then make them realise growth at that level isn't possible without the legions of staff that to prop it up.

It's the same as any other business. There are the guys coming up with ideas and arranging them, then there are the guys who look for arranged ideas and start giving orders to "help" them grow. Like the "unofficial" manager we've sort of got who keeps harping on about me wearing glasses, even though I can't see my tuner or setlist without them, and have been told they look good on me. But let's not make this about me...

Anyway, herbivores and carnivores, that's all it is. We don't need them but they need us, so it's their job to convince us that it's the other way around. You either enjoy playing or you enjoy making money, and if you enjoy making money you're in the wrong game, plain and simple. Don't give me that "I enjoy both" crap either, because if you really did get sufficient satisfaction from playing in a group to any kind of appreciative audience, why the emotional need for money?

[Bassist4Eris]

Originally Posted by ShoeManiac

The economics of original bands are perpetually difficult. The OP has definitely outlined some of those challenges. But it's definitely worthwhile to look at both your possible revenue streams as well as your costs.

There's definitely the potential for far greater financial upside to an original act. And that's because of the varied revenue streams that simply don't exist in the cover world.
-Gig money
-Merch
-Music sales (both CD's and downloads)
-Monetizing a YouTube channel (advertising)
-Licensing

If you're able to build a decent fanbase the gig money can start to roll in. But the flipside is that it can take a considerable marketing investment to get people to know about you. That eats into your bottom line, but once word gets out about your act social media can start to carry you.

Recording costs can definitely be a significant financial offset to gig income. We're dealing with that issue as well. But when you pay for your own recordings, you own them. You don't owe them to someone else. That means you're in the drivers seat if a label comes knocking with either a signing or a distribution deal. You've also got the option of licensing the music out as you want. Even indie bands can license material, and I know that there's always someone looking to license music: commercials, tv shows, video games, etc.

Merch? Some bands can make more on merch than on anything else. It can really be all about finding the right artists to design your merch, and then finding a good deal to get it manufactured. Some venues are now demanding a cut of the artists merch because they recognized that they were making significant cash selling product on their premises, so they decided they needed to get a cut.

All of these potential revenue streams require an investment to get them going. You have to invest in rehearsal and gear in order to play the shows. You've got to invest in recordings to sell your music. And you have to invest in the design and manufacture of your merch in order to sell that, too. At that point it comes down to keeping a close eye on your expenses and trying to balance that out with the income.

GREAT response. I'm going to print this and bring it to next band practice.

[ShoeManiac]

Originally Posted by RonniePudding

I've been in Albany for a while, and while music is definitely in the hobby category for me, I've met a few pros over the years for whom music is their full time job. Without execption, they all have multiple projects, some of which are playing standards/covers. Many of them have music-related side jobs to help pay the bills (recording engineer, teacher, etc.).

A lot of my friends are musical, and a few of them have truely great writing ability and/or technical/performance skills. 1 or 2 of them have had original projects for years and get local respect and gigs in good places. They all have day jobs.

Playing originals (at least in this town, IMHO) is something you do because you love it. And you make a CD because you want to record your thing for posterity and share it, even though it will cost you some $ to do so.

I have a lot of respect for those few people I know who make their living by playing in cover bands, but it looks to me like a lot of work. I wouldn't call it an easy job, or a lucrative field.

A good thing to consider with your CD? First, realize that the CD format is dying. That's just a fact of the business. But, it's a good medium for selling your music at your gigs.

Going on the road? Do some advance work. Get your CD to local media outlets (college radio, blogs, newspapers, etc) at least a month in advance of your date(s). And also try to get it into some local record shops along that same timetable.

And as for going on the road? That doesn't have to break the bank, and you can do it regionally. We're based in the NYC area and currently we venture out through most of the Northeast. Group your dates together so that you can maximize your travel, and you can do some good things.

Also? Consider working with CD Baby for distribution. You'd be surprised at the number of artists who are selling their CD's through that site. Additionally, CD Baby has a deal for getting your music offered digitally through the iTunes store. THIS IS HUGE. Look into this. Remember I mentioned that the CD is dying? Thank iTunes for that. But also bear in mind that you can make that work for you by getting your material offered on the largest online music retail site there is.

And while I'm at it, what are some good original rooms in Albany? We hit Boston, Vermont, Maine, NYC & Philly already, and we'd definitely like to know what the good original music rooms are in Albany from someone with that local perspective.