Equal Pay Split, What Are Your Thoughts?

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by mellowinman

I have always wondered why he gets so much grief here.

It seems like some of you go out of your way to do it.

I just look at it as, some don't agree with my perspectives and opinions. That's what forum is for. I never picked up on anyone giving me grief.

Blue

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by ChrisB2

You just noticed this???

The cast and crew rotate in and out, but there is always a nice contingent of blue bashers in BM....

Agreed, I post a lot of controversial opinions that are going to " rattle " some people.

I think some are jealous that I'm still gigging with the energy and enthusiasm of an 18 year old and having a blast and I'm almost 60.

I think that ticks some people off.

Blue

[agreatheight]

What is fair will be different in every situation. In my present working band, we split evenly 4 musicians and 1 sound guy. The singer doesn't schlep gear, but she runs the web and books the gig. The guitarist and the singer own the PA / lights and keep it up with no extra cut, but if something big goes, everyone will kick in a bit to get it fixed. Fair enough for me.

[Edward G.]

Originally Posted by agreatheight

What is fair will be different in every situation. In my present working band, we split evenly 4 musicians and 1 sound guy. The singer doesn't schlep gear, but she runs the web and books the gig. The guitarist and the singer own the PA / lights and keep it up with no extra cut, but if something big goes, everyone will kick in a bit to get it fixed. Fair enough for me.

As I said in an earlier post, it comes down to a shared sense of fair play, which varies with every group of people. If everybody can agree on what works, it's hard to beat that.

[agreatheight]

Originally Posted by bluewine

Agreed, I post a lot of controversial opinions that are going to " rattle " some people.

I think some are jealous that I'm still gigging with the energy and enthusiasm of an 18 year old and having a blast and I'm almost 60.

I think that ticks some people off.

Blue

I think it is more likely your purposefully abraisive tone and complete lack of humility, but I could be wrong

[Edward G.]

Originally Posted by bluewine

I think some are jealous that I'm still gigging with the energy and enthusiasm of an 18 year old and having a blast and I'm almost 60.

I think that ticks some people off.

Blue

I'm ready to fight, dammit.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by ChrisB2

Keep it up Blue, there are more of us who like you than those who don't.

Of course, that is just my opinion, you others do not have to agree with me, what do I know?

Cool,

Anyway this was a productive thread with great replys.

At the end of the day, make sure you know where you stand on money issues so there are no surprises.

Blue

[jive1]

Here's my take......

It depends on ownership of the band, and the materials. If it's a partnership, then equal pay for equal work. But, in over 25 years of doing this, I've never experienced a band that did equal work over the life of the band. After a while, the most motivated person tends to do a bulk of the work. The cut I found that works best is to give an extra cut (10-15%) off the top for the person booking the gig to keep them motivated. Also, some type of set fee for the PA. Even if the band helps with load-in/out and setup, there's still paying for the PA, maintaining it, and hauling it back and forth from your house. It's a pain to load out a PA by yourself at 3AM in the morning. I believe in giving an extra cut, to keep people motivated and not feel like they are taken advantage of. But, if everyone has a piece of the PA and does a role like book gigs, maintain the website, etc. then an equal split can work.

If one or more people own the band, then I don't believe in a equal cut. But, in some situations, the hired hands may make more than the owner in a similar fashion to other businesses. Most businesses start out with a loss in the beginning, and the employees aren't the ones who take the loss. The owner does. But, on the flip side, when the business takes off and makes a profit, the owners take a bulk of the profit, not the employees. In this situation, the BL tells a potential player what the pay is and they can choose to accept or reject.

[BawanaRik]

It's very possible he did give them a good cut. By all accounts Stevie was a saint and then some.

Originally Posted by Edward G.

Probably not, but only a dope wouldn't negotiate that up front. As a sideman, you usually know you're a sideman.

[BawanaRik]

What model do you have? Amals with the bleeder?

Makes me wish I was younger.

Originally Posted by nortonrider

No, I just KNEW that you were going to write that.
you're pretty predictable.

[BawanaRik]

Good point. The Infernal Revenue Service wants their pound of flesh. Make the checks out to The band name Cactus After Silly Horses. To make it simple just use the initials.

Originally Posted by singlemalt

Since it's that time of year, and this is going in circles, let's talk taxes!

Example: Your super cool bandleader who books everything and supplies the PA (on needed nights) gets you a steady diet of the aforementioned $500 gigs. Say six a month on average. He just splits pay evenly for the sake of easy math and good karma. You play the same places in a fairly regular rotation, with some big ticket parties and events thrown in. The band could gross between $40,000 and $50,000 in a year.

Later this month, band leader is going to receive 1099's from many of the establishments you have served. Ouch! How could they take a business deduction for entertainment services, and report our pay to the IRS? I thought we were friends! Who's on the hook? Bandleader, for one.

You were going to report that $10 to $12 K you made this year right?

Hobby income, independent contractor, consultant, the IRS only cares that you took in money and they want a cut.

[BawanaRik]

Can you still do a 4 hour night? That's good, real good.

Originally Posted by bluewine

Agreed, I post a lot of controversial opinions that are going to " rattle " some people.

I think some are jealous that I'm still gigging with the energy and enthusiasm of an 18 year old and having a blast and I'm almost 60.

I think that ticks some people off.

Blue

[Schizoid75]

Very interesting thread. Before I get started, I do gig regularly in two different local cover bands. I tend to average about a gig week I think.

First, one observation. I'm a little shocked by all the bands that handle their own PA in some form or fashion. I did that for a number of years and I was usually the guy who owned it and did most of the setup, but not always. I never liked the idea of paying someone else to do something I could do myself, especially since so many local sound guys did what I felt was an inferior job.

But I eventually got tired of all the extra time for setup and teardown, replacing worn out items, etc. I found a few local sound companies that I like and trust and I would never go back to dealing with PA again. While I value my time and want to be paid, the money I give up is far worth it to me. I don't have to worry about storing extra gear, I don't have to show up early or stay late, etc.

As for splits and pay, there is no right answer. Everyone has to do what's right for them and everyone has a different personality and take on the subject. What I might do with one band, I wouldn't do with another. There are a lot of factors involved. Frankly, if I love the people I'm playing with and love the music we're playing, I care a lot less about how much I'm getting paid. Other bands are much more like a chore.

I think everyone should worry less about how everyone else handles it and just make sure that your situation agrees with you.

Just my $0.02.

[Anthbass]

Wait a minute here... people are paid to gig? Is this new? Why wasn't I told?

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Anthbass

Wait a minute here... people are paid to gig? Is this new? Why wasn't I told?

So you don't take our gigs.

[walterw]

a couple bands i'm in do an equal split because somebody else in the band books/promotes/etc while i do the mixing and "tech" stuff, and own at least a significant part of the PA. luckily, in both cases, the other members get equal cuts because they help with load-in/out, and also are awesome players and also our friends!

one guy i play with sings, promotes, owns the PA and books (and has his name on the sign outside); that's a sideman gig, where i show up, play, and get my cut, which i'm sure is less than his.

[CapnSev]

Originally Posted by jive1

Here's my take......

It depends on ownership of the band, and the materials. If it's a partnership, then equal pay for equal work. But, in over 25 years of doing this, I've never experienced a band that did equal work over the life of the band. After a while, the most motivated person tends to do a bulk of the work. The cut I found that works best is to give an extra cut (10-15%) off the top for the person booking the gig to keep them motivated. Also, some type of set fee for the PA. Even if the band helps with load-in/out and setup, there's still paying for the PA, maintaining it, and hauling it back and forth from your house. It's a pain to load out a PA by yourself at 3AM in the morning. I believe in giving an extra cut, to keep people motivated and not feel like they are taken advantage of. But, if everyone has a piece of the PA and does a role like book gigs, maintain the website, etc. then an equal split can work.

If one or more people own the band, then I don't believe in a equal cut. But, in some situations, the hired hands may make more than the owner in a similar fashion to other businesses. Most businesses start out with a loss in the beginning, and the employees aren't the ones who take the loss. The owner does. But, on the flip side, when the business takes off and makes a profit, the owners take a bulk of the profit, not the employees. In this situation, the BL tells a potential player what the pay is and they can choose to accept or reject.

I think this hits the nail on the head.

My last few bands I have chosen to be treated like a hired gun - i.e. tell me about the gig (pay, times, venue, etc.) and I'll decide whether or not to take it. Extra charge if you want my PA.

[fuzzy beard]

I have no gigging experience! Mostly jams and a few open mics. But was offered a chance to gig with a solo artist doing covers around the local bars. 6 to 8 gigs a month. He sang, played guitar, owned PA, promoted, and booked. My cut would have been 20% to show up keep it simple and work on getting better at backing vocals.

Sounded fair to me. But I am not looking to commit to gigging! Just like to jam now and then!

[seanm]

Originally Posted by STL Rip

The thing is if you personaly spend the $120 for the lights you own them. If you go through some kind of band fund you own 1/4 of a set of lights (if you are in a 4 piece band). If you own 1/4 what are you going to do when the band splits up?

If you owned those lights outright there is no arguement, they are your property. You could even rent them out yourself on non gig weekends. They could also be used as leverage getting you into your next band.

I own my own PA and lights. When im not playing I make money running sound everything is an investment. just seems your thinking a little short term with your $120.

I agree. While I could afford it, I am trying to pay for the PA with gig money. This means another year and a bit before it is paid off. Then the priority is mains. After the mains are paid for, then I might think about lights.

Another consideration is that lights take room. I will have to build a bigger box for the truck.

Originally Posted by modulusman

I agree. I just wonder if they play in the dark at low paying jobs. Nothing says lame band like no lights at all.

Nobody in Ottawa uses lights for the small bar gigs we do. We use lights for larger private parties or weddings.

We aren't playing in the dark, we just don't have coloured lights.

Originally Posted by Stinsok

I can see myself in the future not revealing that I have a PA.

+1000 I never mention a PA at auditions.

[modulusman]

Originally Posted by seanm

I agree. While I could afford it, I am trying to pay for the PA with gig money. This means another year and a bit before it is paid off. Then the priority is mains. After the mains are paid for, then I might think about lights.

Another consideration is that lights take room. I will have to build a bigger box for the truck.



Nobody in Ottawa uses lights for the small bar gigs we do. We use lights for larger private parties or weddings.

We aren't playing in the dark, we just don't have coloured lights.



+1000 I never mention a PA at auditions.

Lights can be had really cheap. The of the best ways to improve your band. One of the bands I play with uses 8 of these. http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-a...y-two-and-save If you buy four and get a cheap stand http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-a...lighting-stand you would be spending about a $120.00. it doesn't take up much room either. If none of the other bands use lights then this might set you apart from them. Which should lead to better paying gigs.