Equal Pay Split, What Are Your Thoughts?

[jmattbassplaya]

Originally Posted by bluewine

Since this thread is about $400.00 bar gigs, why would and what would a band playing at that level be doing with a 20k pa?

Blue

+1

That's a pretty valid point.

Here's a question for the masses - in general, do the better music venues in your town have an in house PA system or not? In Knoxville and Memphis (and the few places I've played in Nashville) it seems like any music venue worth playing at already has a system. The ones that don't aren't really music venues but bars that occasionally have music, and two mains seems to be more than adequate for those gigs.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

+1

That's a pretty valid point.

Here's a question for the masses - in general, do the better music venues in your town have an in house PA system or not? In Knoxville and Memphis (and the few places I've played in Nashville) it seems like any music venue worth playing at already has a system. The ones that don't aren't really music venues but bars that occasionally have music, and two mains seems to be more than adequate for those gigs.

In Milwaukee it's clear cut, none of the bars/ clubs for cover bands have in house PAs, only the clubs for originals bands. Shank Hall us the only one with pro sound.

Blue

[ChrisB2]

Originally Posted by Chuck King

Even if someone doesn't demand something in the initial all-for-one-one-for-all lovefest of an newly-organized band, it is inevitable that when the novelty wears off the extra work will start to chafe, so I would be in favor of making sure that people who do extra work or provide used-by-the-whole-band gear get something for it from the git-go.

Not saying you're wrong in the main, but in my case, the PA guy has been in the band four years and has never taken or asked for a dime, except gas money from the guys who ride with him.

I joined two years ago and it was and always is an equal split; that's how they've always done it, so that's how it is.

Originally Posted by Chuck King

On the other hand, there are plenty of circumstances where other factors can outweigh monetary concerns. A very common scenario is where a band leader has a vision for a band and so absorbs various costs or takes on extra work for no compensation because its part of what needs to be done to realize that vision. Also, at low levels (Blue's $400 bar gig is in that category) a lot of times the thankless uncompensated work or stuff provided is viewed as an investment in building the band, and while somebody who's doing a lot of extra stuff may not demand a bigger cut of the relatively small paycheck, when/if the band gets to the level of doing bigger, more lucrative gigs, there may be a different analysis.

Agreed, and I would add that some of the "other circumstances" may be; gaining a feeling of security by owning/providing something the band needs; gaining a sense of power or sway over the band by doing more than others; etc.

Originally Posted by Chuck King

Then, you may have the situation we have in my main band, where everybody is doing something to advance the band, and everybody feels that contributions are close enough to equivalent that an equal spit of net profits is reasonable. For instance: I own our PA, but the other guys tend to haul it and set it up (they have the bigger vehicles, and one of them is a professional sound guy). The lead singer owns our light system and programs that and backing tracks, and the drummer handles all our web stuff and some of the booking. In the grand scheme of things, I'm sure you could figure that contributions are not precisely equal, but I'm satisfied that the other guys are contributing enough that I don't mind providing the PA without getting extra money for it. If they were all just "show up, play, go home" types, I would feel differently.

I can't say all the members of my band do more than show up and play, but I do. It may not rise to the level of providing and operating the PA but I do a lot of extra stuff that no one else does, but I have no resentment toward those who do nothing extra. I don't care, lets just play and split the money equally.

[jmattbassplaya]

Originally Posted by ChrisB2

]

I can't say all the members of my band do more than show up and play, but I do. It may not rise to the level of providing and operating the PA but I do a lot of extra stuff that no one else does, but I have no resentment toward those who do nothing extra. I don't care, lets just play and split the money equally.

That's how I see it.

[smogg]

Originally Posted by bluewine

Since this thread is about $400.00 bar gigs, why would and what would a band playing at that level be doing with a 20k pa?

Blue

And there in lies the rub. My band is just a bar band most of the time like yours Blue. Really, how much PA do you really need to play a $400 room. You're talking a couple hundred people at best. We often bring more PA than we need because we can. So it's an even split and we all help with everything.

Now if you are playing bigger rooms that actually require a full blown "pro" system because all must be run FOH. And if the stage is soooo big you need 8+ wedges and 3 or 4 different monitor mixes and, you're still only getting $400 for the whole band? Then somebody is doing something very very wrong and you got bigger issues to worry about then who gets an extra sawbuck or two.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by smogg

And there in lies the rub. My band is just a bar band most of the time like yours Blue. Really, how much PA do you really need to play a $400 room. You're talking a couple hundred people at best. We often bring more PA than we need because we can. So it's an even split and we all help with everything.

Now if you are playing bigger rooms that actually require a full blown "pro" system because all must be run FOH. And if the stage is soooo big you need 8+ wedges and 3 or 4 different monitor mixes and, you're still only getting $400 for the whole band? Then somebody is doing something very very wrong and you got bigger issues to worry about then who gets an extra sawbuck or two.

For us bringing more than we need is one of the ways we distinguish ourselves from the bands that show up bare bones or with some sort of "rinky dink" systems.

In other words we look and sound more professional.

Blue

[fdeck]

If somebody is willing to haul a mountain of gear to a bar gig, well, we all have our hobbies. But for everybody else, maybe a compromise is in order:

1. Figure out how to sound really good with the bare minimum of gear, such as vocal-only PA

2. Ask bar owners if it's OK for the band to play at a lower volume level. They may already be thinking along those lines. Their customers certainly are. I've never heard anybody complain that a band was too quiet.

3. Re-define what "professional" means, so it revolves around something other than the sheer quantity of gear.

You can still slip a few extra bucks to the person with the PA. If enough bands do this, it will become the norm.

[JumboJack]

Originally Posted by bluewine

We run a full pa subs, mains, stage monitors, 32 channels.
Blue

Originally Posted by bluewine

Since this thread is about $400.00 bar gigs, why would and what would a band playing at that level be doing with a 20k pa?

Blue

Originally Posted by bluewine

For us bringing more than we need is one of the ways we distinguish ourselves from the bands that show up bare bones or with some sort of "rinky dink" systems.

In other words we look and sound more professional.

Blue

[Stinsok]

But someone else is "totin' th' note" so you can sound more professional.

[Joedog]

To me it's all about fairness. If someone WANTS to do most of the work, finance, tote, set up the PA, run the website, chase bookings, etc, for free, well OK, but it could (and often DOES) breed a bit of resentment in the long run. I GLADLY will give a little $$ if someone is doing a lot more than I am. It's called fairness, respect, appreciation for extra effort, or whatever. How does that not make sense??????? Why would ethics differ from a $400 gig to a $1200 gig????

[SBassman]

Originally Posted by fdeck

If somebody is willing to haul a mountain of gear to a bar gig, well, we all have our hobbies. But for everybody else, maybe a compromise is in order:

1. Figure out how to sound really good with the bare minimum of gear, such as vocal-only PA

2. Ask bar owners if it's OK for the band to play at a lower volume level. They may already be thinking along those lines. Their customers certainly are. I've never heard anybody complain that a band was too quiet.

3. Re-define what "professional" means, so it revolves around something other than the sheer quantity of gear.

You can still slip a few extra bucks to the person with the PA. If enough bands do this, it will become the norm.

Yes.

[modulusman]

Originally Posted by bluewine

For us bringing more than we need is one of the ways we distinguish ourselves from the bands that show up bare bones or with some sort of "rinky dink" systems.

In other words we look and sound more professional.

Blue

So what brand/model does your Rinky Dink PA consist of?

[the yeti]

Originally Posted by bluewine

We run a full pa subs, mains, stage monitors, 32 channels. It's still an even split.

Blue

Originally Posted by bluewine

Since this thread is about $400.00 bar gigs, why would and what would a band playing at that level be doing with a 20k pa?

Blue

it sounds like you're getting awfully close to that to me. or someone in your band is. maybe not 20, but getting close i bet.

[smogg]

Originally Posted by modulusman

So what brand/model does your Rinky Dink PA consist of?

Exactly, it is very subjective. In my current band our go to small bar PA is 2x115 JBL mains, 1x215 EV sub, 2x112 Yamaha wedges, 12 channel Mackie Board, 2000w Peavey amp.
This is our vocal & kick only set up and is plenty good for most of our "standard" gigs.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by modulusman

So what brand/model does your Rinky Dink PA consist of?

I don't really know, I forget. It might be from The Acme PA Company, that might be the brand and I think we have model RD -1000.

Blue

[pbassnut]

I play in multiple weekend warrior blues bands where the band leaders book the band (no agents or managers) and provide, transport and set up a vocal PA system. 99 44/100% of the time they split the pay evenly (short of covering any extraordinary expenses incurred in landing the gig) ... one guy I play for sometimes pays himself less than the rest of us if the guarantee + tips doesn't enable him to pay everyone as much as he'd like to. Leading and booking a band is a thankless task at best. I'm so happy to be able to just waltz into a gig, set up my stuff and then have a ball playing without having to worry about the business end of things. I wouldn't care a bit if the band leaders I play for took a larger cut for all their extra effort.

[fdeck]

At my age and stage in the game, I tell bandleaders not to pay me more than they pay themselves, if I suspect that's happening. My long term interest in these guys staying in business is more important than my short term interest in making an extra 20 bucks on a gig.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by fdeck

At my age and stage in the game, I tell bandleaders not to pay me more than they pay themselves, if I suspect that's happening. My long term interest in these guys staying in business is more important than my short term interest in making an extra 20 bucks on a gig.

At my age and stage in the game I tell the bl to pay me an equal share of the total fee.

Blue

[Downunderwonder]

Say the BL's whole PA went up in smoke in a bar fire, would you feel like chipping in to replace it and carry on or would you go find another band?

[fdeck]

I don't think burning down the entire bar would be necessary just to get rid of the PA.