Equal Pay Split, What Are Your Thoughts?

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by bassplayer8953

As far as booking gigs, that's the business side of things, something I want nothing to do with. I'm in the business world 5 days a week, and want my musical side to be about playing music. Still, I respect that it takes effort, not to mention some expense, to promote the band and sell it to potential clients. Those who do that deserve to be compensated...at least somewhat...for their time and efforts. Otherwise: no gigs: no money. So I would have no problem with whomever books the gig taking a %age for their efforts. Our band leader does not, but if he did, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

Ok, so how are you supposed to address all these issues with $400.00?

Blue

[bassplayer8953]

Originally Posted by bluewine

Ok, so how are you supposed to address all these issues with $400.00?

Blue

10% of the agreed amount is what a local "promoter" (who actually does very little to promote) charges for booking into one of "his" local clubs, whether it's a $400 gig, or $4000. (Most of "his" clubs pay in the $400 range...if you're lucky. But pa is provided, tho the sound guy will expect to be "tipped"...or next time you'll sound like doo-doo) Throwing the guy who actually got us booked into a new venue $40 for his efforts would cost me what? $10? ...So...do I want to make $90?...or $0...which is what I'd have if he did not put forth the effort. FWIW, $400 paid to my band, if I had to provide pa, would get you a vocal pa, no more. Hauling all that gear for peanuts makes no sense. You can sound fine with a vocal pa, just have everybody tailor their volume to the drummer. If the venue wants more volume, they pay more $$$...which you use to hire sound & lights. Simple.

[ChrisB2]

Originally Posted by bassplayer8953

10% of the agreed amount is what a local "promoter" (who actually does very little to promote) charges for booking into one of "his" local clubs, whether it's a $400 gig, or $4000. (Most of "his" clubs pay in the $400 range...if you're lucky. But pa is provided, tho the sound guy will expect to be "tipped"...or next time you'll sound like doo-doo) Throwing the guy who actually got us booked into a new venue $40 for his efforts would cost me what? $10? ...So...do I want to make $90?...or $0...which is what I'd have if he did not put forth the effort. FWIW, $400 paid to my band, if I had to provide pa, would get you a vocal pa, no more. Hauling all that gear for peanuts makes no sense. You can sound fine with a vocal pa, just have everybody tailor their volume to the drummer. If the venue wants more volume, they pay more $$$...which you use to hire sound & lights. Simple.

Good post. We "haul all that gear for peanuts" but it's the decision of "the band" and the PA owner, not me, so I roll with it. I think we could sound pretty good with vocal PA as you say, but I'm not sure... the guy who owns and runs our PA likes everything in it so he can adjust levels... that's just how he likes it.

I was in a cover band a few years back that used just a vocal PA, unmiked drums, and guitar amps. We still got pretty loud in small rooms...

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by Pacman

Actually, if everyone is getting an equal split, and only one person is bringing the PA, that's the very definition of doing it for free. Just because everybody's happy doesn't mean it's fair.

The term "fair" is relative. If the guy hauling the PA thinks it's fair, then it's fair. Your opinion on the matter, as well as mine, is irrelevant.

[guy n. cognito]

I own, haul and work the PA for my band. My bandmates help me lug it around and set it up at gigs. I have the money to buy it, and a place to store it. I want to own the gear and I don't want a debate about who gets what when the current band ultimately falls apart (since they all do). I do not ask for any additional money for this band for use of the PA, but I do require payment when I'm asked to use it for sub gigs. The situation is fair because it is my choice.

That said, my band members understand that I can, at any time, stop providing my PA for our group use. They also understand that I make certain decisions about our setup and mix because I'm the one that's provided the gear.

[derrico1]

Originally Posted by Pacman

I don't know where you got the idea that we disagree, since I actually used the phrase "bring more value" in my response. We agree completely.

I was responding to what seemed like a misleadingly selective quoting in #342 and #345, which focused on bass = easy gig.

I haven't really been following this thread, and eddiemac didn't identify the source when he quoted you. So, I was curious when I saw #342: who could be saying such a thing? Turns out, you -- but what was selectively quoted missed the context of what you were saying, which is my point in #353.

[lfmn16]

Originally Posted by bluewine

Your forgetting about the fact that were dealing with very little money here.

I don't see where anyone here thinks their entitled to anything.

Blue

I'm not forgetting anything and reading is not your problem, comprehension is. It doesn't cost me any less to purchase and haul a PA and book gigs if we get $100 a night or $1000 a night.

I provided booking and PA for a band that was working 8 - 12 nights a month for several years in the early 90's and I can tell you that it is a part time job working with club owners, keeping everyone in the band informed and all the small details that no one thinks about ... Until nobody does them.

The fact that you think the amount of money is relevant tells me you don't get it and never will.

[/CLASS]

[bwardmusic]

I want to weigh in on this one...I have been the band leader in several bands. I work pretty hard driving around town to promote the band, pay for printed materials, web hosting fees, domain name registration, and put up with a lot of rejection and sometimes even mean bar owners. As well as internet work. One job I had to figure out insurance through the musicians union.

I got tired of never getting a bigger cut to pay these expenses because there was no band fund, no appreciation, and the guys would rather join 5 bands to keep themselves working than help to make our band a success. And then I have to spend two rehearsals getting a sub ready for the gig while they go out and make a buck without doing anything other than playing.

So, I retooled the band with salespeople who are musicians. They tend to be entrepreneurs, sales professionals, or people who are willing to go out and promote the band. And also, I won't invite them unless they will work for whatever I can get for the gig. We have a loose $75 minimum for each person (4 piece) that we try to get, but if we can't get it, then we talk about whether we want to do the gig. When that is satisfied, then the person who books the gig gets a commission up to $45 for his trouble. After that is satisfied, any unreimbursed band expenses get paid. And if those are paid, then we split everything above $345 evenly.

In our town, there are a lot of musicians and they seem to think they are in the days where it was easy to get gigs. Not in this town. They don't know that there are a lot of really good players and when they audition and then demand a certain rate of pay, they are on thin ice. Without the guys who are capable of booking gigs and managing the band, nothing happens. Anyway, I don't work with what I call employee musicians anymore who simply want to show up, play music and get paid. They have to contribute to the success of the marketing effort, and they have to be available when I have a gig most of the time. If they don't meet those two criteria, I have had to let them go in the past. It's sad, but I still stay on good terms with them because they make good subs.

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by bwardmusic

I want to weigh in on this one...I have been the band leader in several bands. I work pretty hard driving around town to promote the band, pay for printed materials, web hosting fees, domain name registration, and put up with a lot of rejection and sometimes even mean bar owners. As well as internet work. One job I had to figure out insurance through the musicians union.

I got tired of never getting a bigger cut to pay these expenses because there was no band fund, no appreciation, and the guys would rather join 5 bands to keep themselves working than help to make our band a success. And then I have to spend two rehearsals getting a sub ready for the gig while they go out and make a buck without doing anything other than playing.

So, I retooled the band with salespeople who are musicians. They tend to be entrepreneurs, sales professionals, or people who are willing to go out and promote the band. And also, I won't invite them unless they will work for whatever I can get for the gig. We have a loose $75 minimum for each person (4 piece) that we try to get, but if we can't get it, then we talk about whether we want to do the gig. When that is satisfied, then the person who books the gig gets a commission up to $45 for his trouble. After that is satisfied, any unreimbursed band expenses get paid. And if those are paid, then we split everything above $345 evenly.

In our town, there are a lot of musicians and they seem to think they are in the days where it was easy to get gigs. Not in this town. They don't know that there are a lot of really good players and when they audition and then demand a certain rate of pay, they are on thin ice. Without the guys who are capable of booking gigs and managing the band, nothing happens. Anyway, I don't work with what I call employee musicians anymore who simply want to show up, play music and get paid. They have to contribute to the success of the marketing effort, and they have to be available when I have a gig most of the time. If they don't meet those two criteria, I have had to let them go in the past. It's sad, but I still stay on good terms with them because they make good subs.

I could have written this exact post.

I'm moving away from "I just show up and play" guys myself. When we replaced our last guitarist, we narrowed it down to two different guys. One was a slightly better guitarist, but he had no band management skills, so social media experience, no club contacts, no PA experience. He made it clear that he saw his position as "just show up and play"... and nothing more. The other guitarist wasn't quite as talented, but had all the things the other guy lacked. We went with the second guy and he has been fantastic. Not only has he helped get us into new venues, but he also does posters and other online work for the benefit of the band. In two months, he has done more work that the other three members combined (and those guys are the "founding" members).

[Jarrett]

These last couple of posts have good info in them. Worth rereading, imo.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by lfmn16

I'm not forgetting anything and reading is not your problem, comprehension is. It doesn't cost me any less to purchase and haul a PA and book gigs if we get $100 a night or $1000 a night.

I provided booking and PA for a band that was working 8 - 12 nights a month for several years in the early 90's and I can tell you that it is a part time job working with club owners, keeping everyone in the band informed and all the small details that no one thinks about ... Until nobody does them.

The fact that you think the amount of money is relevant tells me you don't get it and never will.

[/CLASS]

Probably not, I don't really understand what your talking about.

Blue

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

I'm moving away from "I just show up and play" guys myself.

I don't think any band can be very successful if you have any " just show up and play" guys.

Blue

[the yeti]

Originally Posted by bluewine

I don't think any band can be very successful if you have any " just show up and play" guys.

Blue

but you've said many times that you are a just show up and play guy????

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by bluewine

I don't think any band can be very successful if you have any " just show up and play" guys.

Blue

Sure they can, if one or two members are willing to do most of the work for the benefit of the others.

[the yeti]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

Sure they can, if one or two members are willing to do most of the work for the benefit of the others.

or for a bonus.

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by the yeti

but you've said many times that you are a just show up and play guy????

Blue is pretty infamous for contradicting himself.....

[the yeti]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

Blue is pretty infamous for contradicting himself.....

i know. somebody always takes the bait... today was my turn.

[guy n. cognito]

Well, let's be honest, too. There are some people that you just don't want helping with certain aspects of the "band business." For example, our lead singer is great at singing, but you don't want him talking to club owners. He's more likely to end up hitting on the guys daughter and pissing him off as he is coming away with a gig. My rhythm guitarist is a bit of a luddite, so I don't want him doing much with the PA except help carrying it around. It's the guys that don't do ANYTHING that really chap my hide.

[the yeti]

^ exactly. a peg for every hole, is that the saying?

[Pacman]

When I was gigging in Atlanta, there were *several* bands that were staffed with more "show up and play guys" than they were with "band guys." Many of them were getting $15k (yes, 15 thousand dollars) a night.

I think you can be *very* successful as a show up and play guy.