Equal Pay Split, What Are Your Thoughts?

[klejst]

Bands I have been in we either put all money from shows into a general band fund or we split it up to where each member received a equal share. Sometimes a member would get a little more to cover gas if we had to travel and used their vehicle.

[Pacman]

Originally Posted by bassplayer8953

Combination Jaco, Victor, Geddy, Steve H, & Bootsie all rolled into one?

More like Lee Sklar, Nathan East and George Porter.

There's a lesson in there....wish I could get it.

[smogg]

Originally Posted by jive1

Personally, I've seen more people pissed off by unequal work more than unequal pay. Actually, I've seen lots of people willing to forgo pay in order to less work in this biz. IME, in the professional ranks, unequal pay really isn't an issue because it's expected. An employee usually doesn't know exactly how much the employer makes. They know what they are getting paid, and they can take it or leave it.

I think you really hit on something there jive1. Is the $400-$500 Friday night bar gig a pro gig? How do we define the difference between Pro, Semi-Pro, Amateur gigs? Price; room size/capacity, frequency of shows, the amount of PA brought to the gig? I consider myself semi-pro at best and have almost always been in projects where I was an equal partner not a hired gun. Most gigs have been self booked bars/clubs, private parties etc. IMO group dynamics and music business are much more challenging than the music itself. IME as long as you work with open honest people common sense will usually win.

[JumboJack]

Originally Posted by smogg

I think you really hit on something there jive1. Is the $400-$500 Friday night bar gig a pro gig? How do we define the difference between Pro, Semi-Pro, Amateur gigs? Price; room size/capacity, frequency of shows, the amount of PA brought to the gig? I consider myself semi-pro at best and have almost always been in projects where I was an equal partner not a hired gun. Most gigs have been self booked bars/clubs, private parties etc. IMO group dynamics and music business are much more challenging than the music itself. IME as long as you work with open honest people common sense will usually win.

Very good point. Someone said a while back that a business that does not make a profit is not a business.

If one looks at ALL the overhead for a 400.0 gig 2-3 times a month and factors in all costs associated with it there ain't going to be much (if any) profit.

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by smogg

I think you really hit on something there jive1. Is the $400-$500 Friday night bar gig a pro gig? How do we define the difference between Pro, Semi-Pro, Amateur gigs? Price; room size/capacity, frequency of shows, the amount of PA brought to the gig? I consider myself semi-pro at best and have almost always been in projects where I was an equal partner not a hired gun. Most gigs have been self booked bars/clubs, private parties etc. IMO group dynamics and music business are much more challenging than the music itself. IME as long as you work with open honest people common sense will usually win.

Lots of the "pro" bands around here have been slumming in the bars for 4-500 a night. These are bands that are otherwise making 3-7000 a night. Would a business owner stay home on the days that he thought traffic might be light? Or, would a professional musician rather play an easy bar gig for $75 or stay home?

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by JumboJack

Very good point. Someone said a while back that a business that does not make a profit is not a business.

If one looks at ALL the overhead for a 400.0 gig 2-3 times a month and factors in all costs associated with it there ain't going to be much (if any) profit.

I think it depends, we spend very little on travel and while we bring a full pa, set up and tear down goes pretty vast.

Blue

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by smogg

I think you really hit on something there jive1. Is the $400-$500 Friday night bar gig a pro gig? How do we define the difference between Pro, Semi-Pro, Amateur gigs? Price; room size/capacity, frequency of shows, the amount of PA brought to the gig? I consider myself semi-pro at best and have almost always been in projects where I was an equal partner not a hired gun. Most gigs have been self booked bars/clubs, private parties etc. IMO group dynamics and music business are much more challenging than the music itself. IME as long as you work with open honest people common sense will usually win.

A pro gig is in the eye and the ear of the beholder .

I saw David Lee Roth a few years ago at Summerfest. It was not what I would call a pro gig. On one song the bass player was in the wrong key and they stopped and started the song over.

Then I've seen bar bands come off like pros in my opinion.


Blue

[Jarrett]

Originally Posted by Pacman

When I was gigging in Atlanta, there were *several* bands that were staffed with more "show up and play guys" than they were with "band guys." Many of them were getting $15k (yes, 15 thousand dollars) a night.

Please elaborate. What type of situation are you talking about?

[lfmn16]

Originally Posted by jive1

Well with a $1000 gig, I would provide a more robust PA. I would bring less if I got paid less, and I wouldn't even bother with the $100 one. Lugging gear isn't a hobby for me, and I don't get any joy from it. I would happily pay someone else to do it. I already work 5 days a week, and booking is like work for me. I'll happily pay someone else to do it.

IME, folks who are lame about little money are just as lame if not lamer about bigger money.

Good point, but for my particular situation I provided the PA for every job regardless of how much we made. We didn't play many (if any) $1,000 jobs, but we played a few $100 jobs when we thought they would benefit us. We also played a number of benefits over the years where we didn't get paid at all. I was fine with providing the PA, hauling it and booking the band for free because it was my choice. Ironically, the band was named after the singer (my idea) so technically it wasn't even my band.

Sometimes a certain know-it-all who actually knows nothing just sets me off.

[bigsnaketex]

Music is business - but it's also art. And crazy stuff gets done for "art's sake".

Plus, there is always "the talent". You know, the one person the band can't do without that is the identity of the band. Ours is the singer. She's beautiful, sings like an angel and is the one that everyone comes to see. She shows up and sings. The rest of us handle the business end.

Now the question is, do we ride her coattails or does she ride ours??

I'd like to think that it works for everyone in our situation. The truth is there are a few hundred guys that can play bass in our band but there is only one that sings like her and that is who folks come to hear.

It's not fair but it's real.

My talent lies in organization, set up, booking, business and most importantly, bank-rolling. The bass playing is the part I get off on and find that all I have to do to make that happen is inconsequential TO ME.

Is it a democracy? Not even close.
Does that matter? NOT ONE BIT.

[Pacman]

Originally Posted by Jarrett

Please elaborate. What type of situation are you talking about?

I don't know what they're called in other areas of the country, but we called them corporate bands. Those "show bands" that Coca Cola or Home Depot or UPS call for big annual parties. In a city like ATL, there's a lot of that work, and 3 or 4 bands generally have it sewn up.

[Jarrett]

Originally Posted by Pacman

I don't know what they're called in other areas of the country, but we called them corporate bands. Those "show bands" that Coca Cola or Home Depot or UPS call for big annual parties. In a city like ATL, there's a lot of that work, and 3 or 4 bands generally have it sewn up.

Gotcha, I thought you were saying $15k a man. Those big corp bands have lots of players and lots of hands in the cookie jar. $15k can get used up pretty quickly.

[jmattbassplaya]

Originally Posted by bigsnaketex

Music is business - but it's also art. And crazy stuff gets done for "art's sake".

Plus, there is always "the talent". You know, the one person the band can't do without that is the identity of the band. Ours is the singer. She's beautiful, sings like an angel and is the one that everyone comes to see. She shows up and sings. The rest of us handle the business end.

Now the question is, do we ride her coattails or does she ride ours??

I'd like to think that it works for everyone in our situation. The truth is there are a few hundred guys that can play bass in our band but there is only one that sings like her and that is who folks come to hear.

It's not fair but it's real.

My talent lies in organization, set up, booking, business and most importantly, bank-rolling. The bass playing is the part I get off on and find that all I have to do to make that happen is inconsequential TO ME.

Is it a democracy? Not even close.
Does that matter? NOT ONE BIT.

Yeah, but there's a catch. Could she handle bookings and logistical work? Could she force a venue owner to cough up money at the end of the night if he's tries to stiff you? Bassists might be a dime a dozen, but bassists who can handle all the business stuff and also play are pretty rare. That's where your value is. If you weren't the one getting gigs then none of you would be working.

Once again, I'm wondering why bassists are so quick to undervalue themselves

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

Yeah, but there's a catch. Could she handle bookings and logistical work? Could she force a venue owner to cough up money at the end of the night if he's tries to stiff you? Bassists might be a dime a dozen, but bassists who can handle all the business stuff and also play are pretty rare. That's where your value is. If you weren't the one getting gigs then none of you would be working.

Once again, I'm wondering why bassists are so quick to undervalue themselves

If there's only $5.00 missing from our pay we have someone who is diplomatic and can go back for it.

Blue

[bigsnaketex]

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

Yeah, but there's a catch. Could she handle bookings and logistical work? Could she force a venue owner to cough up money at the end of the night if he's tries to stiff you? Bassists might be a dime a dozen, but bassists who can handle all the business stuff and also play are pretty rare. That's where your value is. If you weren't the one getting gigs then none of you would be working.

Once again, I'm wondering why bassists are so quick to undervalue themselves

Well I don't underestimate MY value - but then again, I'm NOT going to get 300 folks to come hear me play my bass (or my guitar since I do both)!! There is give an take and unfortunately, there is always the "talent" question. And I'm pretty sure that all of us that do this understands what that means.

It's very rare when the "talent" and the business person for the band are the same person - normally, if that is the case, that band is going places!!

PLUS - I'm 6'3" and 250 and she's 5'5" and 110 - which helps a lot in the "collections" part of it!!

[bassbully]

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

Once again, I'm wondering why bassists are so quick to undervalue themselves

Because we are viewed as the grunts, the foundation and support for bands kind of like offensive linemen in football. We pull our load, drive the team but there is little cash or fame for it.

Oh yea and Bass is easy to play...forgot that one

[ChrisB2]

Originally Posted by bassbully

Oh yea and Bass is easy to play...forgot that one

YEAH BABY!!

[Jarrett]

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

Once again, I'm wondering why bassists are so quick to undervalue themselves

People think of playing bass like the short bus of the musician world. Right or wrong, that's the general consensus. So to be more viable, some players sweeten the pot a bit by handling other duties like singing, owning the PA, hauling the PA, setting up the PA, running sound, handling the website, handling social networking, booking gigs, etc.

Cuz let's face it, how good do you really have to be to play the bass line to Classic Rock tunes to a bunch of drunks?

[Lemoore-on]

Even split & we all haul our own gear and help each other set up & take down.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by Jarrett

Cuz let's face it, how good do you really have to be to play the bass line to Classic Rock tunes to a bunch of drunks?

I am not one to underestimate or undervalue the role of the bass guitarist in any band.

How good do you have to be? I don't know , I've seen my share of marginal bass players that stick out like a sore thumb in a band.

I am just as valuable as any other member of any band I'm in. And I make that known to the band.

Blue