Equal Pay Split, What Are Your Thoughts?

[Jarrett]

Originally Posted by bluewine

I am just as valuable as any other member of any band I'm in. And I make that known to the band.

How do you make it known?

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by Jarrett

How do you make it known?

By being a nice guy.

I help set up and tear down, help with background vocals, bookings, some arranging and never missing a rehearsal or gig.

I am not a stand back in the corner by the drum kit player.

Blue

[Jarrett]

Originally Posted by bluewine

I help set up and tear down, help with background vocals, bookings, some arranging and never missing a rehearsal or gig.

Gotcha, so you are doing some of the things I mentioned a couple of posts back. That's good.

[jmattbassplaya]

Originally Posted by bigsnaketex

Well I don't underestimate MY value - but then again, I'm NOT going to get 300 folks to come hear me play my bass (or my guitar since I do both)!! There is give an take and unfortunately, there is always the "talent" question. And I'm pretty sure that all of us that do this understands what that means.

It's very rare when the "talent" and the business person for the band are the same person - normally, if that is the case, that band is going places!!

PLUS - I'm 6'3" and 250 and she's 5'5" and 110 - which helps a lot in the "collections" part of it!!

That's very true, but at the same time if there weren't gigs to even go to would her fans be going up to her house, knocking on the door, and asking to hear her sing? I'm going to guess probably not. Talent doesn't have much value unless it's being shared. In a sense, you're probably the more important person in the group because without gigs she'd probably just be sitting at home.

Originally Posted by bassbully

Because we are viewed as the grunts, the foundation and support for bands kind of like offensive linemen in football. We pull our load, drive the team but there is little cash or fame for it.

Oh yea and Bass is easy to play...forgot that one

Originally Posted by Jarrett

People think of playing bass like the short bus of the musician world. Right or wrong, that's the general consensus. So to be more viable, some players sweeten the pot a bit by handling other duties like singing, owning the PA, hauling the PA, setting up the PA, running sound, handling the website, handling social networking, booking gigs, etc.

Cuz let's face it, how good do you really have to be to play the bass line to Classic Rock tunes to a bunch of drunks?

I'll answer these two posts together:

Short-handed response = Tell Flea that.

More thought-out response = But why is that the mentality people have? I find it incredibly depressing that bassists are putting themselves down and are considering themselves the grunt of a band. I'm beginning to wonder if this mentality exists because people (besides bassists) genuinely think it's true, or if it exists because bassists just think it exists. It's a real defeatist attitude to have, and it's very unattractive.

When I was younger, I was often told that the image you put out to the world will often reflect how the world will react right back to you. In other words, if you come across as being confident, charismatic, and fun to be around then people will typically see you in a very positive light. However, you come across as insecure, lacking in self-esteem, and filled with self-pity then people will view you very negatively and won't see much worth in your person.

I can't help but think that the reason bassists tend to be looked down upon is because most bassists look down on themselves and the importance of their role in a band. For example, many people love my guitarist's playing and want to come support him in a lot of his projects. That said, I have never seen him get people dancing and grooving just by playing by himself in front of others. The only time people really get moving is when my drummer and I come in and lay down a fat groove for people to dance to. The guitarist might draw people, but the rhythm section is the cog that's making it all work.

I mean heck, just look at Flea. Many of the more technically proficient bass guys tend to see Flea as being nothing more than a very solid, above average player, and yet Flea is loved by millions of people who aren't even musicians. Why is that? I think it's because he sells himself and his importance to the music of the RHCP. He isn't just a bassist or grunt but an integral part of their well-oiled machine. In fact, I'd dare say his klout is greater than any other member in that band, but I digress.

My point is that I think if bassists sold their role as being the groove factory of every band much more publicly then we'd see a paradigm shift in the way people see us. This whole, "we're just grunts", "we're not the talent", "people are only here for our frontman" nonsense needs to stop because it's only true if you let it be true. And as they say, a truly exceptional guitarist is much easier to find than a truly exceptional bassist. If you're a good player and bring something to a band then don't be afraid to claim your worth.

[Jarrett]

Flea?

The guy who started this thread is a 60 year old man that just started gigging a couple of years ago after a 30 year break and plays in a local Blues and Classic Rock bar band.

I assumed that was the context of his discussion. Not how he can become Flea at 60.

[Kid-A]

Equal pay for equal play

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by Jarrett

Flea?

The guy who started this thread is a 60 year old man that just started gigging a couple of years ago after a 30 year break and plays in a local Blues and Classic Rock bar band.

I assumed that was the context of his discussion. Not how he can become Flea at 60.

Let's get the story straight, I hadn't picked up or played bass in over 40 years.

As a matter of record, Flea is on my " not impressed" list.

My idols are from my generation, Willie Weeks, Chuck Rainy and Rocco Prestia.

Blue

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by bluewine

Let's get the story straight.......
Blue

That would be difficult at best.

[jmattbassplaya]

Originally Posted by Jarrett

Flea?

The guy who started this thread is a 60 year old man that just started gigging a couple of years ago after a 30 year break and plays in a local Blues and Classic Rock bar band.

I assumed that was the context of his discussion. Not how he can become Flea at 60.

Sure, but we're also discussing the value/worth of the work each member provides to a band - thus my post. If bassists really aren't worth anything because anyone can do our jobs (apparently) then why do any of us get paid, anyways?

[JumboJack]

Originally Posted by Jarrett

Flea?

The guy who started this thread is a 60 year old man that just started gigging a couple of years ago after a 30 year break and plays in a local Blues and Classic Rock bar band.

I assumed that was the context of his discussion. Not how he can become Flea at 60.

Originally Posted by bluewine

Let's get the story straight, I hadn't picked up or played bass in over 40 years.

As a matter of record, Flea is on my " not impressed" list.

My idols are from my generation, Willie Weeks, Chuck Rainy and Rocco Prestia.

Blue

30,40 what's the diff?

[drummer5359]

I was in south Florida in the eighties. There I did a lot of hired gun stuff, backing anyone who'd pay me. The talent was making the money, but I did okay for the time. The upside was that I hauled my own gear in and out, (unless there was provided backline.)I had no duties other than playing my instrument. This was playing in show type bands at the big hotel bars on the beach for the most part.

Since then I have played in bands that were much more democratic. We all help each other load in, set up, tear down and earn equal pay.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by Jarrett

I assumed that was the context of his discussion. Not how he can become Flea at 60.

And why would I want to become Flea? Willie Weeks, yes of course. Flea , not even interested.

Blue

[Jarrett]

Blue, you will love this.

At first, when I was taking lessons with Chuck Rainey 20 years ago, I had him teaching me Flea licks

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by Jarrett

Blue, you will love this.

At first, when I was taking lessons with Chuck Rainey 20 years ago, I had him teaching me Flea licks

Why would an innovator be teaching you Flea licks?

That would make as much sense as Rocco teaching me Les Claypool.


To be honest I don't know much about Flea. I'm not a Peppers fan. Never got it.

Blue

[Jarrett]

Originally Posted by bluewine

Why would an innovator be teaching you Flea licks?

Cuz I didn't know who he was and was dumb enough to ask him to show me Flea licks and he was smart enough to take my money and laugh about it.

He actually had a lot of respect for the new guys back then. I'll never forget him telling me about Doug Wimbish one time, watching him do a demo. And Chuck saying saying, it's times like that you think about hanging it up. Chuck saying that. Humbled me forever.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by Jarrett

Cuz I didn't know who he was and was dumb enough to ask him to show me Flea licks and he was smart enough to take my money and laugh about it.

He actually had a lot of respect for the new guys back then. I'll never forget him telling me about Doug Wimbish one time, watching him do a demo. And Chuck saying saying, it's times like that you think about hanging it up. Chuck saying that. Humbled me forever.

I know Chuck blew all those Coca Cola jingles out of the park in the 70s.

Wish I could have studied with him.

Blue

[Edward G.]

Originally Posted by bluewine

I am not one to underestimate or undervalue the role of the bass guitarist in any band.

How good do you have to be? I don't know , I've seen my share of marginal bass players that stick out like a sore thumb in a band.

I am just as valuable as any other member of any band I'm in. And I make that known to the band.

Blue

Word. If the bass can't groove, it doesn't matter if he never hits a clam. It won't sound right.

[jmattbassplaya]

Of course threads like this make me reconsider by position on the worth of a bassist in a band

I'm a one string bassist

[Jarrett]

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

Of course threads like this make me reconsider by position on the worth of a bassist in a band

The weird thing I find about being a bass player is that others don't fully understand the role of the bass in groups. Maybe they haven't experienced what a seasoned, knowledgeable player brings to a group or maybe they just can't perceive why it sounds better when one bass player plays over another, but the end result is they don't understand the role/function of a good bass player in a group.

I think this is where the under value stuff comes from. It's easy to see what a flashy guitar player brings, or an attractive singer with good stage presence, even a drummer that does cool fills; but with a bass player its hard to perceive their worth even when they are playing really well for the non educated.

This goes back to that thread I started about bass playing possibly being a dying art. There was a time everyone wanted a Flea or a Chuck Rainey or a John Paul Jones, but nowadays who does?

[ChrisB2]

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

Short-handed response = Tell Flea that.

You're using a very isolated and rare example to make a point against another point which was very broad-based. Not really relevant.

Look back to Bassbully's example of the linebacker; listen, whether you like it or not, there ARE different levels of "perceived value" within MOST bands. I recognize that; I know that our singer and lead guitarists... as well as our overall sound which I'm part of... are what get us repeat bookings, not my amazing reinterpretation of the Mustang Sally bassline. I don't see it as putting myself down, it's just recognizing the facts of life... I in no way put myself down; I'm a very talented, intelligent self-made entrepreneur who also plays in bands, and my role in the band is pretty easy and not usually noticed much by others. Not putting myself down-- recognizing reality.

No offense but... the rest of your post sounds like that feel-good self-esteem crap they started feeding the kids 20-or-so years ago... I'm an old guy who was raised to believe what I consider to be a more realistic worldview and was never deceived into believing a linebacker can transform himself into a quarterback just by squeezing his eyes shut and wishing hard enough....

Like a good quarterback needs a good linebacker, my band needs a bass player. I get equal pay and equal standing in the "democracy." But I ain't the quarterback.