Equal Pay Split, What Are Your Thoughts?

[modulusman]

Originally Posted by nortonrider

Blue,
didn't you once say that you don't own the PA, do any of the bookings,
maintain the website for the band or anything like that?

Why then do you feel that you deserve an equal share of the pay, if you
are not doing and equal share of the work?

He probably thinks he is getting an equal cut but isn't.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by bassplayer8953

Sounds fair, unless there is a vocalist/singer, and he/she provides a vocal-only pa...then it's an even share.

IMO someone owning, maintaining, hauling, setting up, tearing down, etc... ...a full pa, is due AT least an extra cut. + extra for fuel, if warranted. There's nothing "equal" about someone showing up with their gear & playing, while others handle the business end, and provide and handle the pa (which benefits the band, as a unit, more than any 1 members contribution). If a member refused to structure a reasonable pay split, to reflect the added work some do, I'd refuse to provide the pa "Go rent one: that'll be $300...how much are we making again?"

That's a strong argument.

However, if I were offered to be a member of a $400.00 a night bar band, My response would be;

" That's fine and more than fair. However, I don't think we're a match. Thanks for the offer, your a good band, you'll find someone soon."


Blue

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by modulusman

He probably thinks he is getting an equal cut but isn't.

Yeah, that must be it.

Blue

[bassplayer8953]

Originally Posted by bluewine

That's a strong argument.

However, if I were offered to be a member of a $400.00 a night bar band, My response would be;

" That's fine and more than fair. However, I don't think we're a match. Thanks for the offer, your a good band, you'll find someone soon."


Blue

...and (at least around here) there would be 50 bass players in line behind you, waiting to try out for the spot you just turned down...

...I guess it depends on the market, whether you can dictate your terms.

[bassybill]

Originally Posted by bluewine

This thread is for those of you in bar bands or joining bar bands doing traditional 4 hour shows in the $400.00- $500.00 fee range.

What is your take on pay?

My position regardless of the circumstance is you should get an equal cut.

Blue

REGARDLESS of the circumstances? What, totally?

How about if one person writes all he charts, books all the gigs, buys, stores and transports PA and lighting, organises promo stuff... and someone else just turns up and plays?

I don't think it takes too much thought to realise that you can't sensibly generalise about things like this "regardless of circumstances". Equal pay can be fair or totally unfair, depending on circumstances.

EDIT - oops, looks like I responded to the OP without realising how many responses there had already been along these lines.

[seanm]

I would probably take a small pay cut if I didn't have to touch the PA and somebody else handled it. But it would mean I wouldn't help load the PA in/out, wouldn't help setup the PA, and wouldn't use a wireless (not counting extenuating circumstances).

[jmattbassplaya]

Originally Posted by bassybill

REGARDLESS of the circumstances? What, totally?

How about if one person writes all he charts, books all the gigs, buys, stores and transports PA and lighting, organises promo stuff... and someone else just turns up and plays?

I don't think it takes too much thought to realise that you can't sensibly generalise about things like this "regardless of circumstances". Equal pay can be fair or totally unfair, depending on circumstances.

Never mind that. Please continue

[bassybill]

Originally Posted by bluewine

Interesting, this is also something guys thinking about joining a band should think about.

For those that read my threads, it's no secret that I don't participate in band funds.

Blue

So, if you're in a full member of a four piece band that takes $400 a gig, and the rest of the band decide to split that to take $90 a piece and put $40 into a fund each gig for shared band running costs, you'd say "No, I want my $100?"

[bassybill]

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

Never mind that. Please continue

I just did.

[seanm]

Originally Posted by bassybill

So, if you're in a full member of a four piece band that takes $400 a gig, and the rest of the band decide to split that to take $90 a piece and put $40 into a fund each gig for shared band running costs, you'd say "No, I want my $100?"

Actually, I would. I don't like the idea of band funds.

However, for better paying gigs we rent lights. That comes off the top. But we always get at least $100 per person.

[bassybill]

Originally Posted by seanm

Actually, I would. I don't like the idea of band funds.

However, for better paying gigs we rent lights. That comes off the top. But we always get at least $100 per person.

I gotcha.

Well, even if it's not an actual "band fund", that still means that shared expenses are just that - shared. That was my main point. Whether you call it a fund or not and everybody throws in as and when or it gets skimmed off gig fee or whatever.

It just seemd a little odd for blue to say that everybody should get an equal cut regardless of circumstances, and then say that he didn't like the idea of a band fund/sharing band expenses.

[bassybill]

As someone who has been a band leader in the past (not any more! WAAAAAYY too much grief), I've been in the situation where it would have been a cold day in hell before I'd agree to an equal pay split. Maybe that's why I'm happy now on some gigs taking less than a BL who is doing about four times the work for the band (in total) than I have to.

[seanm]

To be honest, an equal cut can work to the bands disadvantage in the long term. Let's take the example of lights. If the gig is $600 or more we provide lights. It costs us about $65 to rent the lights (more if we get two trees). I had a chance to buy a set of lights for about $120 (probably could have talked him down a bit).

No brainer right? It pays for itself in 2 "better" gigs (we do 3-4 gigs a year with lights). But if I buy the lights, that is basically the profits from two gigs gone. If we continue to rent, I lose $16 per gig. It also means I have to carry the lights. So renting is the better option for me and I didn't grab them.

[mellowinman]

In theory, I agree with paying extra to the person booking, and the person providing the PA.

In practice, we split equally for one simple reason:

There really isn't that much money to split.

[JimmyM]

Our band's drummer does all the booking and all the logisticals of our gigs. He also pays for all things like stage clothes, promo materials, merch, etc, and produces and promotes shows we play as well. And the band was up and running for 12 years before I ever joined. For that I get paid way better than most musicians in this area, and at times it's equal to or more than I could make if I were doing it myself from scratch, and all I have to do is play bass and sing. Think I'm going to complain that I don't get an equal cut?

Most bandleaders I know just tell you what the gig pays you and you can take it or leave it, and if you ask what the band is getting, you'll get told that it's none of your business. That's a little pre-emptive strike against band members who think everyone should get equal pay without doing equal work.

But even if you have an all-for-one band not making huge money, there usually ends up being one person doing the gruntwork. They should get paid for it. And having been that person in the past, I felt pretty ripped off because it's not easy by any means to get people to pay to host your band. So if you're in a band and you think you deserve equal pay, you need to be very realistic about your workload vs. everyone else's.

[Downunderwonder]

Originally Posted by bluewine

Yeah, that must be it.

Blue

Referring to the possibility of not actually being given an even split of band receipts.

Since you are removed from the business end of the band can you really be confident of getting 25% of all income?

If it turned out that some skimming was going on, to compensate the PA owner/hauler/setterupper, would that annoy you or even possibly destroy your faith in the band management that you would have to leave and find a new position?

[seanm]

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

Referring to the possibility of not actually being given an even split of band receipts.

Since you are removed from the business end of the band can you really be confident of getting 25% of all income?

If it turned out that some skimming was going on, to compensate the PA owner/hauler/setterupper, would that annoy you or even possibly destroy your faith in the band management that you would have to leave and find a new position?

This would be a risky thing for a small bar band to do. I don't book gigs, but I quite often talk to the staff. A few times I have been given the pay rather than the band leader. I would know if I was being short changed.

[Downunderwonder]

It wouldn't have to happen very often to even things out, and not too difficult to do when an extra hundred or two appeared.

[bassybill]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Our band's drummer does all the booking and all the logisticals of our gigs. He also pays for all things like stage clothes, promo materials, merch, etc, and produces and promotes shows we play as well. And the band was up and running for 12 years before I ever joined. For that I get paid way better than most musicians in this area, and at times it's equal to or more than I could make if I were doing it myself from scratch, and all I have to do is play bass and sing. Think I'm going to complain that I don't get an equal cut?

Most bandleaders I know just tell you what the gig pays you and you can take it or leave it, and if you ask what the band is getting, you'll get told that it's none of your business. That's a little pre-emptive strike against band members who think everyone should get equal pay without doing equal work.

But even if you have an all-for-one band not making huge money, there usually ends up being one person doing the gruntwork. They should get paid for it. And having been that person in the past, I felt pretty ripped off because it's not easy by any means to get people to pay to host your band. So if you're in a band and you think you deserve equal pay, you need to be very realistic about your workload vs. everyone else's.

Good post. Do you get paid a little for writing horn arrangements, Jimmy? Just curious.

Don't get me wrong, I think equal pay arrangements are fine in a lot of circumstances (as is the case with my main band - we share the work and the expenses). It was blue suggesting that it's the right thing to do REGARDLESS of circumstances that seemed weird. But then he posted a comment that shows that's not what he actually meant.

[quote]

Originally Posted by bluewine

Hi Amber,

As of our next show if you are unable to help load in and out, we will no longer be able to pay you an equal cut.

Thanks

Mr. Band Leader

In other words, blue understands totally that in some situations, like this one,equal pay isn't always the way to go "regardless of circumstances", despite the assertion in the OP.

[cnltb]

Originally Posted by john m

Those who own the PA, transport more than their own gear or go out of their way to book the gig (especially if others do nothing) should get more than an equal split.

Equal pay for equal work/investment is OK if there is gig and take.

+1

If I am hired by a band to o a gig with them however I do not ask how much they make when talking about my fee.