Equal Pay Split, What Are Your Thoughts?

[Edward G.]

Originally Posted by Mtnman

IME, cooperatively owned gear and band funds never work out well. What happens when someone quits/gets fired? Does the rest of the band have to buy the departing member's share?

I knew of a band that owned collective property, financed it, and shared equally in all outlays and incoming proceeds. The price of quitting the band was forfeiting your equity in the equipment to the remaining members. New members did not make as much as founding members unless they bought in. The band lasted about two years and a couple of defections, but strangely enough this was never an issue in its demise.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

Referring to the possibility of not actually being given an even split of band receipts.

Since you are removed from the business end of the band can you really be confident of getting 25% of all income?

If it turned out that some skimming was going on, to compensate the PA owner/hauler/setterupper, would that annoy you or even possibly destroy your faith in the band management that you would have to leave and find a new position?

I work for really good people, they are more than fair with me. They are the most honest people I know. I have read many TB threads and I feel bad for guys that have worked with or work for "creeps".

To answer your question if a band violates my trust, I would have to look for other opportunities.

Blue

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by seanm

This would be a risky thing for a small bar band to do. I don't book gigs, but I quite often talk to the staff. A few times I have been given the pay rather than the band leader. I would know if I was being short changed.

Very good point, everything is pretty visible at the $400.00 - $500.00 level in these small bars.

Blue

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Edward G.

I knew of a band that owned collective property, financed it, and shared equally in all outlays and incoming proceeds. The price of quitting the band was forfeiting your equity in the equipment to the remaining members. New members did not make as much as founding members unless they bought in. The band lasted about two years and a couple of defections, but strangely enough this was never an issue in its demise.

That's a band I'd never join in the first place. I'm supposed to walk away from a potential 4 or 5 figure investment? Ain't happenin'.

[Edward G.]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

That's a band I'd never join in the first place. I'm supposed to walk away from a potential 4 or 5 figure investment? Ain't happenin'.

I suppose it was a measure of their commitment. I always thought it was a little crazy. They even had a trailer to haul the equipment.

[bluewine]

[quote=bassybill;13675572]Good post.

In other words, blue understands totally that in some situations, like this one,equal pay isn't always the way to go "regardless of circumstances", despite the assertion in the OP.

True, I hope I've made it clear that equal pay is not always appropriate. However, at the $400.00 - $500.00 range for small bar gigs it's usually best.

Blue

[fdeck]

BW, it seems to me you're talking about a specific situation: You joined an established band that splits the pay equally, without consideration for things like gear expenses and schleppage. That's OK. Maybe the band had a reason for this, such as past experiences with other pay strategies, or just wanting to keep the bass player happy. Who knows?

I'm in the camp where I accept what I'm offered for each gig, and don't ask what the band is making. That's what works for me. In fact, I don't even try to negotiate. Over time I've developed a sense for which gigs are worthwhile, and which ones aren't, and I think that I've generally been treated fairly.

Now, your post seems to suggest a situation. Is it hypothetical or real? Now what are you talking about in terms of what you would or wouldn't accept? How many times have you turned down an offer from a working band? Is your existing band talking about changing the terms of service?

Any talk of what's "fair" has to acknowledge that a band doesn't necessarily make business sense if each player retreats to their corner and demands a living wage, a return on their expenses, and compensation on par with commercial services such as PA rental. If the band is more like an income generating hobby, then the social cohesion of the band becomes a factor in determining how the pay is split.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by plong123

Re: famous bands splitting money

This was just in the news recently. Original Black Sabbath drummer Bill Ward was so insulted by the proposed split for a new album/tour that he quit the band, and may likely never talk to his bandmates ever again.

Sure, most people come to see Ozzy or Tony. But without Geezer or Bill, it's not Black Sabbath, either. You would think a founding member of a seminal rock band would get more respect, but when friends start to only see the band as dollar signs, this is the result.

Black Sabbath is not a $400.00 / 4 hour bar band.

Blue

[Edward G.]

Originally Posted by fdeck

I'm in the camp where I accept what I'm offered for each gig, and don't ask what the band is making. That's what works for me. In fact, I don't even try to negotiate. Over time I've developed a sense for which gigs are worthwhile, and which ones aren't, and I think that I've generally been treated fairly.

This is how I approach sub work. With my own band, every money detail has to be out in the open among all members.

[Stinsok]

I can see myself in the future not revealing that I have a PA.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by lfmn16

I don't know about the OP, but I've found that most of the time the people hollering the loudest for an equal split are the ones doing the least work.

I never had to holler for an equal split. It was what I was offered when I joined.

I work for good people.

Blue

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by Arthur Strand

Most musicians are not level headed with cash etc. When a band forms, its members - if equal partners - should read up on basic small business accounts and book-keeping. Take exams in it if you like but the main thing is understanding finances. Certain expenditure needs to be attended to before splitting the money and the more professional a band is, the more professional the finances must become. The manager/agent should be considered for his percentage first because it is they who keep the ball rolling. A friendly Bank manager could also prevent disputes. A one-man band cannot split up over any dispute: either it is there or it isn't and drummers cannot be one-man bands nor bass players generally speaking.

You do understand we're talking about uncomplicated $400.00 small bar gigs.

Blue

[Groovy_Gravy]

Originally Posted by bluewine

This thread is for those of you in bar bands or joining bar bands doing traditional 4 hour shows in the $400.00- $500.00 fee range.

What is your take on pay?

My position regardless of the circumstance is you should get an equal cut.

Blue

Everyone gets an equal cut. no ifs ands or buts

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by fdeck

Now, your post seems to suggest a situation. Is it hypothetical or real? Now what are you talking about in terms of what you would or wouldn't accept? How many times have you turned down an offer from a working band? Is your existing band talking about changing the terms of service?.

It's a real situation.

I accepted an equal split, which was what I was offered.

If I was offered a full membership in a 4 piece working band that booked in the 2k range, the split would be open for discussion.

Blue

[yodedude2]

i am shocked at how undervalued running sound is for most of y'all.

in our area, the soundman gets 2 shares. they show up first, leave last, set up mains, subs, monitors, run sound and lights also for larger venues. if they are playing the gig as well, that's cool, still 2 shares.

if you don't like it, you do not perform. musicians are everywhere around here, there are several capable and willing to take your place. back to your practice room! (unless, of course, you find the next greater fool...good luck with that!)

to the o.p.: based on your description, it seems your friends in the band treat you better than you treat them.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by yodedude2

i am shocked at how undervalued running sound is for most of y'all.

in our area, the soundman gets 2 shares. they show up first, leave last, set up mains, subs, monitors, run sound and lights also for larger venues. if they are playing the gig as well, that's cool, still 2 shares.

if you don't like it, you do not perform. musicians are everywhere around here, there are several capable and willing to take your place. back to your practice room! (unless, of course, you find the next greater fool...good luck with that!)

to the o.p.: based on your description, it seems your friends in the band treat you better than you treat them.

How do I treat them, I don't think I shared that information.

BTW, I have been a member of the band for a year. They are not my friends, they are business partners.

Blue

[nortonrider]

Originally Posted by bluewine

They are not my friends,
Blue

I soooooooo knew THAT was coming!

[bassspace]

I play in a number of projects. For the project that I lead, I have chosen to be responsible to book the job and provide the PA which iis pretty limited .....just mains and a mixer. Hauling the equipment in and out of the car is a pain. The upside of taking on this role is the value of having discretion in choosing what clubs you play,the line up of musicians you hire for the evening, the song list, directing the solos etc. This project is very much a personal expression of me as it is a conversation of ideas of some very talented friends. I split the pay equally. Getting to do what I want is priceless. I work as a side man in other projects and the band leaders do the same. I also play in a tribute band and travel. The tribute artist pays the band about 1/3 of the total plus expenses. Its good money for me. The value in the performance is the tribute artists' voice, looks etc and he is absolutely entitled to the larger cut.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by nortonrider

I soooooooo knew THAT was coming!

Just stating a fact.

Norton, do you think being friends us the model for all bands and do you think it's a necessity?

Blue

[nortonrider]

No, I just KNEW that you were going to write that.
you're pretty predictable.