Equal Pay Split, What Are Your Thoughts?

[BawanaRik]

True dat. If you're making 50K and are single you're taking home just over 2K every two weeks. The average Joe in the US makes about 40K. According to what I've read the average of people who file with the Infernal Revenue Service with job title Musician make about 35K.

That's if you're lucky enough to be working.

There's a reason Cream was a three piece band. Diving up a $500 night between 3 players and diving up the same $500 between a 5 piece band is noticeable.

This is a business. Most musicians aren't business types. And it matter. Ask Jack Bruce. Or compare the net worth of Jack Bruce to Paul Mac, who had a better business sense.

I get burned when I mention this but once again may I humbley suggest that as a working bassist you either take a couple of courses in business and maybe business law at your local Community College. If that's not an option may I paraphrase Frank Zappa, and mention that there's book in the library that covered that.

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

You'd be surprised, man. I reckon if your band is pulling in $500 a gig you're probably doing better than 95% of musicians out there, or at least that's what it seems given what I've read on Talkbass.

[wmheilma]

I have been in a couple of bands where the leader took a cut for booking, providing PA and lights, as well as transportation for the farther-away shows. That was fine. We did well.

BUT, this topic came up recently with a band leader who was not being open about what the shows paid, did not provide sound, took a cut after another agent already had one, etc. Band leaders like this will not keep any good players for very long! How to address this behavior without simply quitting can be a challenge especialy when the player providing the PA is mad.

[BawanaRik]

It would depend on the payout and the people. Before the drinking age was raised to 18 bands were routinely getting a grand a night. And this was when making 25K a year was doing good. Doing two weekend shows with a 5 piece band and one other night and you were doing better than average. But you had to move a B-3.

Originally Posted by JimmyM

That's a band I'd never join in the first place. I'm supposed to walk away from a potential 4 or 5 figure investment? Ain't happenin'.

[jmverdugo]

I would say that a way to avoid this is to charge "additional" money for the PA. I mean most of the bars have a PA (they still need to have some music in between sets don't they?) If they don't, then maybe you can slip in a $25-$50 fee for PA. Same thing in other small venues, just rent the PA and the owner and person in charge of setting up the PA get that money.

Oh and the Singer should have his own gear.

Jm2c

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by nortonrider

No, I just KNEW that you were going to write that.
you're pretty predictable.

Maybe, I guess some of my views are well known.

Do you think being friends is all that important?

When I was a younger guy, we were all usually close friends in bands I played in.

Blue

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by jmverdugo

I would say that a way to avoid this is to charge "additional" money for the PA. I mean most of the bars have a PA (they still need to have some music in between sets don't they?) If they don't, then maybe you can slip in a $25-$50 fee for PA. Same thing in other small venues, just rent the PA and the owner and person in charge of setting up the PA get that money.

Oh and the Singer should have his own gear.

Jm2c

In Milwaukee for the most part it's only clubs that cater to originals bands that supply PAs;

Shank Hall

Lineman's River West

Club Garibaldi's

Up & Under

Down & Over

Cactus Club

Blue

[nortonrider]

I would think that just to do a job, No being friends isn't necessary.

However, to have any sort of "chemistry", then yeah, there should be
certain amount of camaraderie and respect. both of those I would attribute to being "friends".

I'm curious, are the rest of your band members friends?
are you an outsider in "their" group? a hired gun?
or a band member?

[fenderbassman40]

Thanks for all the Replies in this thread. I am learning 60 cover songs for a bar band that gigs regularly. My whole focus has been on learning the tunes first and worrying about the cash later. If I've learned anything, it's to Get the money issues straightened out first or have hassles down the line.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by nortonrider

I would think that just to do a job, No being friends isn't necessary.

However, to have any sort of "chemistry", then yeah, there should be
certain amount of camaraderie and respect. both of those I would attribute to being "friends".

I'm curious, are the rest of your band members friends?
are you an outsider in "their" group? a hired gun?
or a band member?

I think we have a degree of camaraderie and definitely respect and as a matter if fact if you see us at gig you would think we we're friends.

I'm a full member, I do some booking and arranging ( I didn't mention that earlier by design) I'm not a sideman, outsider or hired gun.

I am not sure if the other members are friends, I don't think so.


Blue

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by fenderbassman40

Thanks for all the Replies in this thread. I am learning 60 cover songs for a bar band that gigs regularly. My whole focus has been on learning the tunes first and worrying about the cash later. If I've learned anything, it's to Get the money issues straightened out first or have hassles down the line.

Sounds like your already in the band. Did you discuss money before you joined?

Blue

[singlemalt]

Since it's that time of year, and this is going in circles, let's talk taxes!

Example: Your super cool bandleader who books everything and supplies the PA (on needed nights) gets you a steady diet of the aforementioned $500 gigs. Say six a month on average. He just splits pay evenly for the sake of easy math and good karma. You play the same places in a fairly regular rotation, with some big ticket parties and events thrown in. The band could gross between $40,000 and $50,000 in a year.

Later this month, band leader is going to receive 1099's from many of the establishments you have served. Ouch! How could they take a business deduction for entertainment services, and report our pay to the IRS? I thought we were friends! Who's on the hook? Bandleader, for one.

You were going to report that $10 to $12 K you made this year right?

Hobby income, independent contractor, consultant, the IRS only cares that you took in money and they want a cut.

[Floyd Eye]

We split equally.

[gus1894]

Originally Posted by bluewine

I think we have a degree of camaraderie and definitely respect and as a matter if fact if you see us at gig you would think we we're friends.

I am not sure if the other members are friends, I don't think so.

Blue

I'm back to originals now, but I spent probably the better part of 6 years doing covers, typically falling on the $4-500 gig area. One band was a group of friends I've played with on and off for 10-15 years, the others were bands I joined not knowing any of them - they became friends - b/c lets face it, you spend time with people in that capacity they become friends. If you aren't doing it to put a roof over your head or food in your belly (as you stated), then you better be having a good time - why do it if it isn't fun? And you aren't going to have much of a good time with a bunch of "co-employees".

I bet your bandmates consider you a friend, and I bet if they were reading this thread they'd think differently about you. (Or at least of you as a friend)

[mellowinman]

Originally Posted by gus1894

I'm back to originals now, but I spent probably the better part of 6 years doing covers, typically falling on the $4-500 gig area. One band was a group of friends I've played with on and off for 10-15 years, the others were bands I joined not knowing any of them - they became friends - b/c lets face it, you spend time with people in that capacity they become friends. If you aren't doing it to put a roof over your head or food in your belly (as you stated), then you better be having a good time - why do it if it isn't fun? And you aren't going to have much of a good time with a bunch of "co-employees".

I bet your bandmates consider you a friend, and I bet if they were reading this thread they'd think differently about you. (Or at least of you as a friend)

I don't play to make money, but I like to make money when I play. I don't need to be friends with my bandmates. I don't need to have "fun."

So why do I do it?

I do it for the music. I like to execute a song well, and if you are playing in my band, and we are executing together, and making a good sound, and working as a team, that is a relationship I value far more than someone simply being my "friend."

What about that?

The musical relationship? I play for the satisfaction of performing to the best of my ability, and I prefer to play with people who have that same motivation. I want the song to KILL. I want to watch it back on video and say, "yeah, we NAILED that one," and I want the audience to feel they were entertained.

That is a driving need, and it is the ONLY reason I perform. I get paid because I go to a lot of trouble to put that show up there, and my time should be worth SOMETHING, even if it isn't much.

[JumboJack]

Originally Posted by singlemalt

Since it's that time of year, and this is going in circles, let's talk taxes!

Example: Your super cool bandleader who books everything and supplies the PA (on needed nights) gets you a steady diet of the aforementioned $500 gigs. Say six a month on average. He just splits pay evenly for the sake of easy math and good karma. You play the same places in a fairly regular rotation, with some big ticket parties and events thrown in. The band could gross between $40,000 and $50,000 in a year.

Later this month, band leader is going to receive 1099's from many of the establishments you have served. Ouch! How could they take a business deduction for entertainment services, and report our pay to the IRS? I thought we were friends! Who's on the hook? Bandleader, for one.

You were going to report that $10 to $12 K you made this year right?

Hobby income, independent contractor, consultant, the IRS only cares that you took in money and they want a cut.

BINGO!!!

To keep insisting on calling a weekend warrior type gig a "business" is hilarious.
Let's see your P/L statement.
Who handles the 1099's?
Incorporated?
Insurance?
Are you an employee of the business or a partner?
Who is the CEO?

If you're going to call it a business then treat it like a business.....

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by singlemalt

Since it's that time of year, and this is going in circles, let's talk taxes!

Example: Your super cool bandleader who books everything and supplies the PA (on needed nights) gets you a steady diet of the aforementioned $500 gigs. Say six a month on average. He just splits pay evenly for the sake of easy math and good karma. You play the same places in a fairly regular rotation, with some big ticket parties and events thrown in. The band could gross between $40,000 and $50,000 in a year.

Later this month, band leader is going to receive 1099's from many of the establishments you have served. Ouch! How could they take a business deduction for entertainment services, and report our pay to the IRS? I thought we were friends! Who's on the hook? Bandleader, for one.

You were going to report that $10 to $12 K you made this year right?

Hobby income, independent contractor, consultant, the IRS only cares that you took in money and they want a cut.

This is a completely different topic and circumstance.

Blue

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by gus1894

I bet your bandmates consider you a friend, and I bet if they were reading this thread they'd think differently about you. (Or at least of you as a friend)

I agree.

Blue

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by JumboJack

BINGO!!!

To keep insisting on calling a weekend warrior type gig a "business" is hilarious.
Let's see your P/L statement.
Who handles the 1099's?
Incorporated?
Insurance?
Are you an employee of the business or a partner?
Who is the CEO?

If you're going to call it a business then treat it like a business.....

I guess I don't agree with you. To me it's weekend warrior stuff and I considerate and treat it as a business at that level.

You don't have to agree with me, however I'm not changing my position.

I call it the $400.00 a night bar business. It's treated like a $400.00 a night bar band business.

I'm a member of a small bar band, nothing more, nothing less.

Blue

[JumboJack]

Originally Posted by bluewine

I guess I don't agree with you. To me it's weekend warrior stuff and I considerate and treat it as a business at that level.

You don't have to agree with me, however I'm not changing my position.

I call it the $400.00 a night bar business. It's treated like a $400.00 a night bar band business.

I'm a member of a small bar band, nothing more, nothing less.

Blue

So then why not answer a few of the business related questions I posted above? I'm sure a business man like yourself knows the answers.
Heck, you have posted that when people ask you what you do for a living you say "Play bass in a band"...

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by JumboJack

So then why not answer a few of the business related questions I posted above? I'm sure a business man like yourself knows the answers.

Start a new thread dealing with this new topic and I'll be happy to answer all your questions.

Your questions are not relative to this particular thread.

Blue