ever get shot down due to being "too busy"?

[sleeplessknight]

So, I have this dilemma. I'm currently playing in two infrequently-gigging-but-still-fairly-good bands (funk/soul and standard jazz, I gig about 2-3 times a month), and I'd like to play out a little more. I've answered several really promising ads on Craigslist and been to auditions that I've gotten through "word of mouth", and so far the replies have been along the lines of "Gee, you're a really great bass player, we'd love to have you in our band, but... you're *so busy* with these other groups. We'd take you if you quit your other bands, but if not, we're gonna keep looking".

Which generally elicits a polite response to their face, and a *headdesk* when I get home. My question for you guys is: ***? Does this happen often? If so, how do you deal with it? Am I just getting lucky with the "picky" bandleaders? Did I bomb the audition and they're just being too polite to tell me, etc. etc. etc. I never thought that "being in other bands" was a bad thing! Especially in Boston there seems to be a shortage of bass players, and at least with the Craigslist stuff I answer I've seen ads get reposted for weeks if not months on end. It's getting to the point where I want to fire back with some snark (but I won't, because that's one surefire way to burn a bridge before it even gets built). What happened to the great Days Of Old(tm) where it was acceptable to have a regular bassist and a bevy of competant subs?

--Lee

[casualmadness]

Lots of bands-most bands are just dellusional enough to think that they will be the next big thing. And because of this, a lot of musicians think that if you are dividing your time between bands, you will not have enough time to really devote to thier band. Therefore, you will be the weak link that holds them back from super stardom.
I've been in tons of bands over the years and am shopping for one now. That is an attitude that a lot of bands have.

[Bass Mule]

I've had it happen to me before. I went into an audition about 3 years ago. Band covered classic rock, some covers, some originals. It was my cup of tea. The guitarist and drummer had also been auditioning singers too and asked me to sit in on those auditions because they liked my bass playing. I thought I had the gig nailed. They couldn't stop talking about how well we grooved and gelled. Afterwards, we sat and talked, because the drummer and guitarist (who had been in a band before) had never met me before jamming, and we really didn't know anything about each other. We talked and stuff. We seemed to have a lot of things in common, but...

...guitarist calls me a few days later and says he thinks my schedule is too busy. Keep in mind that I wasn't in any other gigging bands at the time, and I made my own work schedule (to an extent). Granted, I was a banquet manager at a hotel at the time, and during busy seasons, I would be working a lot of overtime and wouldn't have time for consistent practice or gigs, but it had never been a problem in the other bands I was in.

Anyways, I've never looked back on that experience. They were without a bassist for almost a year, still auditioning. I know this, because I would see ads on Craigslist and such.
Now I'm busier than I was when I was a banquet manager (I went back to school full-time and I'm working 3 jobs), and I'm in two bands. Go figure.

[davec]

What happened to the great Days Of Old(tm) where it was acceptable to have a regular bassist and a bevy of competant subs?

you just answered your own question...... print some business cards. And respond in kind......." well I'm not really ready to leave my current gigs, considering that ( your only planning on playing out X about of times a month/ usually make X amount of dollars per gig/ Whatever) However, if things change let me know. Otherwise, I enjoyed playing with you and please keep in mind as sub or if your situation changes."


I've had some real success with this, I've also been a little to "pro" for some folks, Especially due to the fact I'm not afraid to talk about money. I find that I haven't had any issues or hard feelings either

[txbasschik]

Originally Posted by davec

you just answered your own question...... print some business cards. And respond in kind......." well I'm not really ready to leave my current gigs, considering that ( your only planning on playing out X about of times a month/ usually make X amount of dollars per gig/ Whatever) However, if things change let me know. Otherwise, I enjoyed playing with you and please keep in mind as sub or if your situation changes."


I've had some real success with this, I've also been a little to "pro" for some folks, Especially due to the fact I'm not afraid to talk about money. I find that I haven't had any issues or hard feelings either

Why do people act as if, when you speak of money, you have sold your soul and are "only in it for the money"?

I've had people tell me that, soon as I mentioned pay. Which says to me, "Oh, you don't make anything, or this is just a hobby to you."

We haven't sold our soul to The Devil. We just want to be paid for our work. Some people think those two go together.



Cherie

[funkometer]

Some band leaders are just looking for a steady rhythm section, that way every gig there not having some bass player sight reading all their music, having to start from scratch every gig. They want stability, and good chemistry between the players in the group. Ive noticed alot of this here in Birmingham lately. Also for jazz gigs, the bass players who double usually get the call first over just electric guys.

[YCBass]

I've been on both sides of this debate... Currently on the side of the busy/working bassist and this is because of my experience on the other side.

I had a band that I built from the beginning, we had something great going (IMO) - gigging full time, recorded a cd, even shot a video, radio interview and really creating a lot of buzz in the LA area, etc... But the whole time the vocalist and keyboard player were working musicians and I used to get frustrated that we could only rehearse once a week max. But then they explained that it is a big chunk of their monthly wages that they do those gigs and if it came to it they would have to leave the band because those were paying gigs. Anyway, for other reasons the band is no longer but it taught me a very valuable lesson on the business side of things and I apply it to my approach now.

I heard this quote from a movie ("That thing you do!") but I thought it was very appropriate, "Bands come and go but you keep playing with whomever possible." It's not word for word but y'all get the point.

I understand their point about wanting someone to be there full time, all the time, anytime but I gotta do what I gotta do for me first... If a single band doesn't fulfill my musical taste completely then I will take on others on the side to do it and if they can't handle that then sorry... But I try to never burn bridges.

So far, fortunately I haven't been turned down from a band because I had other gigs going.

[lpdeluxe]

In October, we practiced on a Friday night until 10:00 pm, then loaded the trailer until 11:00.

Saturday morning, we were all at the site of VFD benefit BBQ (ordinarily we turn down benefits: this one had the promise of radio coverage and ads for that night's paying gig -- in the event, the radio guy didn't show up. One more reason not to play benefits...) at 9:00 am, setting up our extensive gear (everything but the lights) on a flatbed trailer. By 2:00 we were done and we loaded the trailer again, and left around 3:00 pm.

At 7:00 pm we were at the club, where we played until 1:00 am, loaded the trailer one last time, and, speaking for myself, got to bed at 3:00 am.

All for $60 apiece! That's selling out? That's not a decent hourly wage, let alone paying for the thousands of dollars of gear we tote around. Yeah, it's fun, but you'd have to have the IQ of an artichoke to want to do it for free.

One observation: you can always tell a band that plays "for the fun of it:" they're not that good, because they have no incentive.

[jive1]

Originally Posted by txbasschik

Why do people act as if, when you speak of money, you have sold your soul and are "only in it for the money"?

I usually throw it back at them. I explain to people that I care about money because I care about music.

- I am passionate enough about music to want to make it a full-time profession. It wouldn't be possible unless music could pay for the mortgage, groceries, bills, etc. We all have bills to pay. If I had to work other jobs for money, then it takes away from time I could devote to music.

- Moving a band forward takes money. Recodings, advertising, promotion, equipment, etc. all cost money. If your band isn't making money, then those things won't happen unless it comes out of the individuals pockets. IMO and IME, there is a certain point where constant financial losses will cause bands to lose motivation.

- I also care strongly about music and musicians. We should be rewarded for their time and talents as much as any other paid professional is.

[optikhog]

We actually just let our lead guitarist go because he was too busy. I see your point, though - if you can make time for the band then it shouldn't be a problem. Our guy was consistently skipping rehearsals, blocking our progress on making a CD and generally killing our ability to get gigs because of his schedule.

What's unnerving is that he was surpised when we let him go. Note that it took 4 days of calling the guy just to get ahold of him to let him know he was no longer part of our band.

[Spoiled Grape]

Originally Posted by funkometer

Some band leaders are just looking for a steady rhythm section, that way every gig there not having some bass player sight reading all their music, having to start from scratch every gig. They want stability, and good chemistry between the players in the group. Ive noticed alot of this here in Birmingham lately. Also for jazz gigs, the bass players who double usually get the call first over just electric guys.

Right here!

I'm a solid player when I sub, but there is absolutely no replacement for the good old feel of a bassist and drummer who click together.

[Bhuti]

I currently play in 5 groups (that was down from 9 earlier this year, thank jesus!) and i've never been turned down for being too busy. It's mostly because of how i conduct myself. I give all my acts notice of if i'm signed up with another act, I give them access to my calendar showing then when i have a gig or not, and i'm quite organized with everyone's charts and songs. Show up on time, get to business, and get out and to the next one...

Although...

I will admit that i forsee such a thing happening soon to myself. I have to constantly cancel rehearsals with one group because my other groups have rehearsals and gigs on their normal wednesday time. So far they understand because the gigs and rehearsals i'm turning them down for are paying, and the group getting canceled on has no gigs scheduled and just rehearses for the hell of it really. Their tolerance can only last so long, but hey. I live off of this and need it.

So i haven't been turned down for being too busy, yet...

[tZer]

On being turned down for [reason X], who knows what their real reasons are? You can only go with what they are telling you and if they are saying they'd take you if you weren't so busy, then you have to assume that's what they mean.

If I were putting a band together that had plans of gigging a lot and possibly shooting for some sort of touring schedule or even a record deal, I'd balk at a dude who arrived to audition who then told me, "Yeah, I play in a lotta other bands too and don't plan to stop" - Why would I fill a key slot in my band with a player who may or may not be able to make the gigs?

If I were just putting a bar-band together to pick up some extra $$ I would be less hesitant to take on a 'busy player' but I would still hope for a one who'd put my project as a priority on their list - meaning the OTHER bands are the ones who would have to deal with his absences, not mine. Getting subs is not a bad thing, but you cannot blame a band for wanting fully dedicated members, right?

As for the idea that playing for money equates to "selling out" (whatever the hell THAT means...) - usually those are the players who "cannot seem to make a buck" talking. It makes them feel like their sense of "integrity" is the reason they can't earn a living as a musician instead of their sub-par skills.

"Dude... you SOLD OUT! Yer takin' money and bein' told what to do! Uh, are you gonna finish those fries?"

[thesteve]

Originally Posted by casualmadness

Lots of bands-most bands are just dellusional enough to think that they will be the next big thing. And because of this, a lot of musicians think that if you are dividing your time between bands, you will not have enough time to really devote to thier band. Therefore, you will be the weak link that holds them back from super stardom.
I've been in tons of bands over the years and am shopping for one now. That is an attitude that a lot of bands have.

I think this is a huge thing...why should someone have to devote 100% of themselves to a single project that may or may not be going anywhere? My drummer plays a couple instruments in another local band. As long as those gigs don't conflict with our gigs, it's not a big deal at all.

Originally Posted by optikhog

We actually just let our lead guitarist go because he was too busy. I see your point, though - if you can make time for the band then it shouldn't be a problem. Our guy was consistently skipping rehearsals, blocking our progress on making a CD and generally killing our ability to get gigs because of his schedule.

What's unnerving is that he was surpised when we let him go. Note that it took 4 days of calling the guy just to get ahold of him to let him know he was no longer part of our band.

this is totally understandable too. You can only flex so much before you break.

as far as "selling out" and "playing for fun" goes. For myself personally, I just have little desire to get into the business of music. I enjoy playing and meeting people and getting paid would be a great perk, but I guess I don't really see it as a priority...then again I'm a hobbyist with very little desire to go professional.

[Deacon_Blues]

You being too busy simply means the band leader will get more difficulties with finding rehearsal dates (unless you make the new band your #1 prioritity). It's also likely that he cannot accept some gigs because you have the dates booked already or that he needs to worry about stand-ins. It might also be that he is afraid of your higher level of professionalism - You might expect the rehearsals to be more effective (10 new songs per rehearsal isn't that much, right? ), which might affect the social part of the rehearsals in a negative way (more practicing, less joking and just having fun).

I'm sounding more negative here than I actually am about this issue, but these aspects came to my mind. IME, it's always a struggle to find rehearsal dates when the band member's calendars are full all the time, and it quickly gets me unmotivated if I need to make tens of phone calls just to find a rehearsal date ("ok ,Tuesday evening 7-8.45pm in three weeks?").

In my current home town, I know a large number of pro musicians that all know each other. If for instance a drummer can't make it to a gig, there will always be another one available and one rehearsal is mostly enough for them. I'd say the more pro you are, the less rehearsals you need and the less "married" to one band you need to be...

[Audiophage]

It's sort of a bloated head/Jaymz Hetfield complex.

[_nick]

I have invited my band to one of my other gigs....

[IanStephenson]

2/3 gigs a month doesn't sound like a lot. The trouble is these are probably Fridays/Saturdays. If the new band also did 2/3 gigs a month you'd probably get at least once clash a month. Why would they hire a bass player who can't make 1/3 of the gigs? If the new band is planning on gigging every weekend then there would be a LOT of scheduling problems.

I'm in three bands(ish)... one is a fun project which rarely gigs. One is a bar band that gigs every weekend. The third is more experimental project which gigs once every few months, but usually mid-week. No clashes. However if I had two bands like the bar band, i'd get fired from at least one. i do have a guy who has sub'd for me but if that were more than very occasionally there'd be problems.

The guys who are juggling lots of bands are either in bands that aren't much working, and/or have their gigs spread through the week (a lounge gig, theatrical, tuesday nights is jazz night etc). Also some genre's are more accepting of a fluid line up, while others are about presenting the band as a fixed entity.

ian

[casualmadness]

Originally Posted by txbasschik

Why do people act as if, when you speak of money, you have sold your soul and are "only in it for the money"?

I've had people tell me that, soon as I mentioned pay. Which says to me, "Oh, you don't make anything, or this is just a hobby to you."

We haven't sold our soul to The Devil. We just want to be paid for our work. Some people think those two go together.



Cherie

I recently got really excited about a performer that I was talking to who has management and has some financial backing. This particular performer was looking for a backup band. He has an enormous talent and enough ofa financial backing that he does not have a day job. Basically, he is looking to spend the next few months in the studio with a band and then hit the road. I was ready to get on board until he said, "I'm looking for professionals who don't get caught up over money." When I asked him to explain himself, he went on to tell me that he wants full commitment from a band but there will be no pay for the band until the tour kicks off. He is getting financial backing that allows him to spend everyday in the studio writing music. But he wants a band to offer that same level of commitment without being paid for several months. I told him he was out of his mind. Then he proceeded to dismiss me as being a "sell out" like every other musician he had talked to.
It's a shame too becausethe guy has a phenomenal voice and songwriting ability. But he's an idiot. Oh well...back to the drawing board.

[Rickett Customs]

The best way to remedy this situation from happening..............
Be on the lookout for quote--unquote "revolving door" bands.

If thats the way a group feels about that particular situation, then obviously there is a difference of what they're impression vs your impression, so just leave it at that. Besides, some people feel you can't have your "cake and eat it too", thats bull****! (IMO), why would you have cake and not be able to eat it?

But I digress, It's better to know these things in the beginning, and just appreciate their honesty for they obviously have a different view on that subject, from band to band and you will find a different or newer view from each.