Explain punk "credibility"?

[bassinplace]

To my understanding punk is telling what or whomever you'd like to f off to do so. But I certainly don't consider myself punk, so I most certainly could be wrong about that. Just the way I understand it.

[vlado]

Far as I'm concerned punk has nothing to do with being lazy or unprofessional. I respect only punks who are well read intellectuals and can explain their attitude and their perspective on the world we live in. Being a lazy scumbag with no respect for anything or anyone is just being a jerk. With that said, if somebody happens to misplace his or her instrument before the gig I assume that can happen once, maybe even twice, but if one is being so careless about what he or she's doing to prepare for facing the audience and that becomes a habit it's very bad and not respectful of audience, venue management and other artists. I guess there's plenty of different people with each having different opinions on the matter, knowing about some big name's bad reputation towards gigs in certain periods of their career (Iggy Pop, Keith Richards - both during 70's, to name just those two) I guess if they are very talented we somehow forgive the fact that they behave like jerks. But for most of young kids who start up like that it's just a pose and should be penalized in some way.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by vlado

Far as I'm concerned punk has nothing to do with being lazy or unprofessional. I respect only punks who are well read intellectuals and can explain their attitude and their perspective on the world we live in. Being a lazy scumbag with no respect for anything or anyone is just being a jerk.

+1

I guess the word "punk" is open to interpretation, but my favorite punk musicians have always had their ducks in a row. They know what they want to say and how they want to say it, and though it may be forcefully, even violently, presented, they still have their act together and make an impact.

Hard to do that effectively when you can't even keep track of your instrument or you bust it before you've said your piece.

[soulman969]

When I questioned someone about this they just said "It's punk credibility man..."

LOL, yeah right.

[franksgbass]

To people who care, punk is not a style of music, but it's also not an excuse to suck. Keep in mind the OP stated that this is what "someone else" told him about said musician. This is a post about someones opinion. We should let this one die. Musicians have always hated punks because they make more dough and get more attention playing simple(or so people claim) music . I think thats funny. Being a guy who loves the clash and fugazi just as much as king crimson or stax/motown, i believe if you have the skills to entertain and put over a song, who cares if you own a backup instrument or not(having extra strings would be nice). How many players have great gear, backup basses and amps, and can't put on a show or get a gig for the life of them. Answer is too many. Shame on me for posting in this thread, hope it goes away soon.
P.S. I love the post were the not so punk guy's band won the crowd over at the end of the night cause they had decent gear and played a few covers, kinda reminds me of a lifetime movie

[vlado]

Originally Posted by franksgbass

To people who care, punk is not a style of music, but it's also not an excuse to suck.

True! For me punk is about being serious and confronting what you think is wrong. And all true punk bands are like that. I don't think you could ever expect Fugazi or Dead Kennedys to be disrespectful to the audience, if only the audience didn't act like jerks themselves.

[MarkMgibson]

Originally Posted by vlado

Far as I'm concerned punk has nothing to do with being lazy or unprofessional. I respect only punks who are well read intellectuals and can explain their attitude and their perspective on the world we live in. Being a lazy scumbag with no respect for anything or anyone is just being a jerk. With that said, if somebody happens to misplace his or her instrument before the gig I assume that can happen once, maybe even twice, but if one is being so careless about what he or she's doing to prepare for facing the audience and that becomes a habit it's very bad and not respectful of audience, venue management and other artists. I guess there's plenty of different people with each having different opinions on the matter, knowing about some big name's bad reputation towards gigs in certain periods of their career (Iggy Pop, Keith Richards - both during 70's, to name just those two) I guess if they are very talented we somehow forgive the fact that they behave like jerks. But for most of young kids who start up like that it's just a pose and should be penalized in some way.

"Well read intellectual punks who can explain their perspective on the world we live in". Are you for real??

[BryanM]

My bandmates and I are all 25-29 years old and live together in a cooperative house. Two of the four of us work day jobs for non-profits. We'll play anywhere, any time, and we always show the utmost respect for other performers on the bill, promoters, venue staff and management and anyone else who helps us to play. Sometimes we play to 1000 people for $20 and sometimes we play to 10 people for $500, but we always play our best and put as much passion as we can into the music. We rehearse 2-4 times per week, go out to local shows to support other acts, are active in community organization and local politics and are not afraid to speak our dissent, whether in songs or in personal discourse.

When we break a string, or even two or three, we keep playing. We've had shows where the power went out halfway through the show and we pulled the crowd in close and sang at the top of our lungs to keep our voices heard over the drums. When we've shouted until our voices are hoarse we steel ourselves and speak out.

We recently played a show that we were invited to play by mistake, but the opening act was just such a punk musician. We ended up running him through our PA and he played his 12 minutes of material, after that we were allowed to play our 45 minutes and we played like it was the last night we'd be alive.

There was another instance where the venue that had booked us was double booked, so we set up and played on a local tennis court in the middle of a sketchy part of town. All of our t-shirts are stencil-painted and completely unique, and we sell them for whatever the purchaser can afford to pay, we just ask for fairness from them and for them to speak the truth about what we do and who we are when asked.

I don't purport to be punk, but I can say with confidence that punk's not dead. As long as there are kids who play every show like it's their last, who speak out at the top of their lungs even when their voice is unwelcome, and who keep making this music because to stop would be to lie down and die, punk is still alive.

[oniman7]

Originally Posted by MarkMgibson

"Well read intellectual punks who can explain their perspective on the world we live in". Are you for real??

My senior high school English teacher has been a punk vocalist (not singer) for something like 30 years. Real live the life kind of punk rocker who was very well read and traveled but seemed he had more hard times than not.his philosophy was that punk gave people the ability to say anything with a few chords. Riots were welcomed at their sites and everybody was expected to indulge in a release of non personal violence and aggression. And then in class he'd give fresh insights on classic literature and world events. Punk can be (and in my opinion should be) well informed

[lustersilk]

Originally Posted by Phendyr_Loon

Unfortunately kids nowadays will use the term "punk" to describe their fashion or attitude without an acknowledgement of the musical origin, this has always peeved me to no end.

Using the word "peeved" is not Punk!

[lustersilk]

Originally Posted by BryanM

My bandmates and I are all 25-29 years old and live together in a cooperative house. Two of the four of us work day jobs for non-profits. We'll play anywhere, any time, and we always show the utmost respect for other performers on the bill, promoters, venue staff and management and anyone else who helps us to play. Sometimes we play to 1000 people for $20 and sometimes we play to 10 people for $500, but we always play our best and put as much passion as we can into the music. We rehearse 2-4 times per week, go out to local shows to support other acts, are active in community organization and local politics and are not afraid to speak our dissent, whether in songs or in personal discourse.

When we break a string, or even two or three, we keep playing. We've had shows where the power went out halfway through the show and we pulled the crowd in close and sang at the top of our lungs to keep our voices heard over the drums. When we've shouted until our voices are hoarse we steel ourselves and speak out.

We recently played a show that we were invited to play by mistake, but the opening act was just such a punk musician. We ended up running him through our PA and he played his 12 minutes of material, after that we were allowed to play our 45 minutes and we played like it was the last night we'd be alive.

There was another instance where the venue that had booked us was double booked, so we set up and played on a local tennis court in the middle of a sketchy part of town. All of our t-shirts are stencil-painted and completely unique, and we sell them for whatever the purchaser can afford to pay, we just ask for fairness from them and for them to speak the truth about what we do and who we are when asked.

I don't purport to be punk, but I can say with confidence that punk's not dead. As long as there are kids who play every show like it's their last, who speak out at the top of their lungs even when their voice is unwelcome, and who keep making this music because to stop would be to lie down and die, punk is still alive.

This is an amazing post. You my friend are just what the music world needs. "Punks not dead at all"

[Downunderwonder]

I've done sound for the punkest band in town. I have no idea what the singer was on about. Guitar, drums and bass sounded cool though.

[GregC]

Originally Posted by franksgbass

To people who care, punk is not a style of music, but it's also not an excuse to suck.

Exactly right. Look back at the original punk bands--past the Sex Pistols side show, please--and you see a lot of bands who were well prepared and kicked ass on stage. The Ramones' music was simple, but they were an absolute machine on stage, a force of nature. And that's just one example. The list of folks in punk bands who could really play their instruments well is long indeed.

[GregC]

Originally Posted by BryanM

My bandmates and I are all 25-29 years old and live together in a cooperative house. Two of the four of us work day jobs for non-profits. We'll play anywhere, any time, and we always show the utmost respect for other performers on the bill, promoters, venue staff and management and anyone else who helps us to play. Sometimes we play to 1000 people for $20 and sometimes we play to 10 people for $500, but we always play our best and put as much passion as we can into the music. We rehearse 2-4 times per week, go out to local shows to support other acts, are active in community organization and local politics and are not afraid to speak our dissent, whether in songs or in personal discourse.

When we break a string, or even two or three, we keep playing. We've had shows where the power went out halfway through the show and we pulled the crowd in close and sang at the top of our lungs to keep our voices heard over the drums. When we've shouted until our voices are hoarse we steel ourselves and speak out.

We recently played a show that we were invited to play by mistake, but the opening act was just such a punk musician. We ended up running him through our PA and he played his 12 minutes of material, after that we were allowed to play our 45 minutes and we played like it was the last night we'd be alive.

There was another instance where the venue that had booked us was double booked, so we set up and played on a local tennis court in the middle of a sketchy part of town. All of our t-shirts are stencil-painted and completely unique, and we sell them for whatever the purchaser can afford to pay, we just ask for fairness from them and for them to speak the truth about what we do and who we are when asked.

I don't purport to be punk, but I can say with confidence that punk's not dead. As long as there are kids who play every show like it's their last, who speak out at the top of their lungs even when their voice is unwelcome, and who keep making this music because to stop would be to lie down and die, punk is still alive.

Right on! Much respect for what you do. If I lived in the area, I'd come out to a show and support you guys.

[MarkMgibson]

The sex pistols and many of the other early punk bands were just straight up Rock bands to me. Some were good, some were crap. A lot of the other stuff was just fashion as far as I could see. While all the "f*ck the establishment" stuff was sort of refreshing at the time, it was nothing new. The Who did the same thing a decade earlier.

[Pbass4003]

If he somehow played in or around Manchester between '74 to '76, he might have some credibility. Otherwise, there is no such thing as punk credibility.

[invader3k]

The Ramones were basically the first punk band (I'm not interested in arguing semantics), and ran themselves with military precision. Johnny Ramone wouldn't have been caught dead with a bad PA or without backup equipment. They viewed each gig as a job, and knew their goal was to give the people what they paid for. Yet their music was punk to the core. If that's not punk credibility, I don't know what is.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by invader3k

The Ramones were basically the first punk band (I'm not interested in arguing semantics), and ran themselves with military precision. Johnny Ramone wouldn't have been caught dead with a bad PA or without backup equipment. They viewed each gig as a job, and knew their goal was to give the people what they paid for. Yet their music was punk to the core. If that's not punk credibility, I don't know what is.

The Ramones have many younger TBers fooled.

There was nothing simple or easy about what they did, like any other pros they made it look easy.

To "nay sayers" I have a standard response ;

"If you weren't there you don't know"

Blue

[evanoverdrive]

This is an interesting thread..Some people seem to get it and some don`t.The true punk {and i will include harddcore, oi,ect in that}scene is COMPLETELY different from what most cover bands and most "original rock" bands have experienced.It is very tight knit and often things are done with a handshake that would make some of you business minded guys cringe.lol.. We have toured mexico on a handshake,they payed for all flights beforehand and every promoter payed exactly as he was supposed to.Treated us like family, took us sight seeing during the day..ect..We have done complete tours of europe with all shows being set up and promoted by like minded individuals with no contracts..Sounds crazy right?lol This is how things can be done when a scene self polices itself.If a promoter is shady, he is outed.A club has screwed bands over, they arent dealt with..I have seen some of the largest bands in our genre give one of the openers money from there guarantee without being asked because they had heard that the opener had blown out a tire on the way to the show. Things like this keep me comming back for more.

[FretlessMainly]

Too many people grip to the commercial moniker of "Punk" as a style of music rather than an attitude. They need to be herded like mindless lemmings to the placards that separate the CDs into genres meanwhile professing to hate the establishment that they blindly follow as they search for the establishment-approved "Punk" section or any other genre, for that matter.

To me, punk is an attitude, not a style of music. Bob Dylan in 1966 was punk long before the genre existed. Arguing with his audience and snarling lyrics at his detractors; telling his band to "play it @#$%ing loud." That's punk by definition. Try to explain that to people and all they can come up with is "Bob Dylan isn't punk."

How freakin' hard is it to get some people to think just a little bit?