Finding your niche in the jungle of tones

dezspet · #1 04-09-2008, 05:55 AM

Hi guys,
Just started up in a funky band. Actually this is a 8 member group with brass section. After 3 rehearsals the leader of the band came to me and changed my tone dramatically. I am using a jazz bass and I have the intention to cut through the mix with the mids. I used to have a kind of Paul Turner sound. Now the situation is that the band seems to dislike this approach and this guy has castrated my tone with dramatically cutting out mid frequencies. This is very difficult to handle, because these things are very subjective, and I am playing fretless in another band most of the time, so maybe it's my fault as well, but now I can feel the double stops and other subtle things like ghost notes are completely inaudible.
Have you been in such situations? Do you have any suggestions which frequencies would be a good compromise? I am using (from next week) an Aguilar 500 with 212 Aguilar cabs. So far I used a "colorful" rig with Ampeg preamp, EBS Neo cabs and Ashdown cabs, and I think this was not working well together.
We play covers, Jamiroquai, Chic, MJ, Liquid Soul, Brand New Heavies, so this is really a wide variety of different musics.
Thanks in advance!
Peter

BassMan250 · #2 04-09-2008, 12:01 PM

Since you're the bass player I think you should have the most say over what your tone is, but perhaps he just wants you to sit back a little bit and fill out the mix instead of cutting through it completely ... perhaps maybe more JPJ on Zep I and II instead of Geddy Lee, for example. Perhaps putting more emphasis on the low mids and not as much on high mids, so you can get a tone that lays down a solid bottom without getting honky but doesn't get buried either. Try YouTubing Andy Hess and check out his solo with Govt Mule; that's a great example of filling out the mix and still remaining audible without being overbearing.

troyus · #3 04-09-2008, 06:09 PM

Sounds like the jazz bass is a bad choice for that group. Try a P or a semi-hollow body Guild. I play with two groups right now and have to use two different basses to get the right feel going. One has J pickups and a wenge/ebony neck. The other has a P pickup with maple/rosewood. The different tones may inspire you to play differently as well, which can be cool.

anderbass · #4 04-09-2008, 11:31 PM

I dont know if I could handle anyone coming over and tweekin my knobs. He's pretty freakin bold...

Set your just mids where you like-em, then pull your mid knob off and reinstall it with the pointer showing a much lower setting. If he comes over to tweek yer amp again, just say, "look the mids are already cut"...

Or try out some flatwound strings. If he's just trying to steer you to a more old school tone, you'll probably find they really help. With flats, you should expect a smoother round tone with plenty of clarity without cutting your mids at all.
That's a big band, sometimes you gotta leave some sonic space for all those other instruments. He may just want the bass to sit in the mix and play more of a supporting roll using a smoother less bright/modern tone.

MysticMichael · #5 04-10-2008, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dezspet

Have you been in such situations? Do you have any suggestions which frequencies would be a good compromise?

This is not actually a matter of agreeing on a compromise for a good EQ setting, so much as a matter of coming to an understanding of what kind of sound the leader is trying to achieve, determining whether you agree with his ideas, and how far you wish to go in cooperating with him.

It's also a matter of balancing his authority to take the band where he wants it to go (that's why he's the leader), with your desire to preserve your own sound, a decent measure of musical autonomy, and your dignity. The key is communication.

I suggest you initiate a little sit-down discussion with him, if you have not done so already. Try to set the right tone by being professional, i.e. open-minded, cooperative and constructive. Do your best to understand his goals and methods, and if you can resolve the matter satisfactorily, without feeling that you're giving up too much, then do so. Otherwise, nicely explain your objections, state your case, and only then suggest an EQ compromise that would work for both of your positions.

If he becomes utterly intransigent about this, and insists that it's his way or nothing, then you have to decide how much you really want to remain with the gig. Good luck!

MM

jomahu · #6 04-10-2008, 04:07 PM

huh. i'd have thought a jazz would be ideal.

try flats (as previously suggested) or plucking on the fretboard...y'know, dub style.
that's fat tone right there.

it sucks that someone is telling you how you should sound...but i guess that's what a leader is for.

Kyon` · #7 04-10-2008, 04:15 PM

I've seen this happen a few times, usually from my perspective sitting a trombone chair is that really when there's some eq issues between the bassist and the leader, usually he just wants more umph and rumble to give everyone else a bit more feel of rhythm. I don't know what your instrumentation is but usually if there are horns, most people like the bass low and round just to the audience there's more of a defined balance of sound.

JustOpenYourMind · #8 04-10-2008, 04:19 PM

Maybe the tone you wanted just does not fit with the band, I mean if you were in a Jamiroquai-esque band maybe the paul turner thing would work but obviously your not. You have to change your tone depending on the kind of band your in.

Another thing, have you tried listening to your tone from far away?

If you adjust your sound when you're right next to your amp, you hear a lot of bass that is just not there anymore 20 feet away. So, maybe from your perspective you sound good but from the band leader and audience point of view, your sound is just honky and not supportive at all. It has happened to me before and now I always do some adjustments and walk away to see how it really sounds.

megadan · #9 04-10-2008, 05:09 PM

A lot of advice on here is often in the form "the guitar players need to cut their bass!/etc." and we're always trying to change their tone, so if a band leader has a good ear and can hear what sits good in the mix, I would be inclined to trust him.

I mean, if I was in his shoes instead of yours, I could see myself doing the same thing to a bass player, especially in an 8 piece band where everyone's slice of the EQ pie is a lot smaller than, say, a 3-piece.