Flat vocals

Joe Milo · #1 06-16-2012, 06:15 AM

Really no other way to describe it......If my bands singer really loves a song he gives it 100% On other songs it seems he starts out fine and then somewhere partially thru the song his vocals flat out.....

At my son's high school grad party my band played...everyone who watched us said we were great except for the vocals. They all said to boot him and find another singer...I know what he is capable of because I have heard him sing at bars during karaoke and he nails the songs...Those are also songs that he really likes tho.

Our set lists range from the 70's to today....He does a great job singing ACDC and Led Zeppelin songs but on others he starts out fine and then somehow loses his tone.

Oh, and yes he does smoke cigarettes if that has anything to do with it?

Any possible way to approach this topic with him tactfully? Just looking for opinions.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mwj7sDnkpc4

this is a 3 song demo of us playing. We opened for another band.

winndaddy · #2 06-16-2012, 06:33 AM

What can I say? Mediocre at best..

invader3k · #3 06-16-2012, 06:34 AM

If he's a habitual smoker, I've found those types tend to lose their voices much more quickly than non-smokers. That could be part of it. Another could just be that he's bored with the tunes.

I wouldn't say he's horrible judging from your video, but yeah, rather um-energetic, if that makes sense. "Highway to Hell" is hard for most to sing and sound good, though.

xxx666 · #4 06-16-2012, 06:37 AM

Can he hear himself? The last band I played in had the most awesome singer - he used to sing flat when the on stage mix was bad, simply because he could not hear him self , or the rest of the band properly- maybe try in ear monitors???

JustDavid · #5 06-16-2012, 06:49 AM

Seems he can hear himself fine on the songs he likes singing

You do indeed know what he is capable of; inconsistent quality, seemingly dependant on his feelings about a song. Not what I'd call a team player, & I feel a band is a team.

Band meeting time. Maybe he'd be happier as a solo act, or you guys would be happier being his backing band?

jeffbelch · #6 06-16-2012, 07:02 AM

I'm a singer myself...actually I have a degree in voice and I'm a music professor at a college. I'm a bit of an oddball in that I play modern worship but I love classical music as well.

Anyway, I actually like your singer's tone. It seems his "instrument" is really good, but his pitch is way off at times. I'd attribute his inconsistency to one (or more) of a few things...
1) what gifting he has is natural, but he hasn't taken the time to develop good technique, etc.
2) perhaps his musical aptitude isn't quite as high as he (or the rest of the band) would like to think it is; this isn't to say he couldn't learn, but it would take a lot more work than someone with the talent to start with.
3) it could be that he's engaging in behaviors that, even though he has the talent, predispose himself to singing badly; it could be smoking, excessive alcohol (even small amounts for that matter) can be pretty bad for one's voice, and it can affect some people worse than others; maybe he talks too much, or too loudly, or too loud...talking is usually harder on the voice than singing...if he talks really low, maybe suggest that he talk more lyrically and at a higher pitch, which usually helps add support.

I'd probably do my best to work with him in that it may be tough to find someone better. Hope you guys find the right answer soon. Take care.
-Jeff

Meyatch · #7 06-16-2012, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustDavid

Seems he can hear himself fine on the songs he likes singing

Maybe he has sung along with the songs he likes so many times he doesn't need to hear himself to nail them?

Joe Milo · #8 06-16-2012, 07:37 AM

Thanks for all the replies fellas....I really appreciate it

craig.p · #9 06-16-2012, 07:42 AM

The feedback/servo loop connecting monitor to ears to brain to voice has to be maintained w/o even the slightest interruption. Concentration without interruption is important. So is being able to hear yourself, as others have said. On that latter point, you can often hear yourself through your inner ear on some notes, reducing reliance on the monitor, while other notes can be heard only through the monitor. When I'm singing in the top of my range, I don't even need a monitor because I'm hearing myself through my head. When I'm singing lower, though, I definitely need that monitor to be working and properly balanced eq-wise. One of the toughest songs I have to sing is Randy Travis's "I Told You So" -- the verses specifically. If the monitor is eq'd hot at the high end, it can be tough. The problem can be that the balance a singer might need can aggravate a low mid feedback zone, and so that crucial range for a singer to be able to hear himself has to be cut out. In the old days, it wasn't uncommon for lead singers to close off one ear with a finger for the low notes. You might want to have your singer try IEMs; they can make a drastic improvement.

**Ric5** · #10 06-16-2012, 07:48 AM

Probably poor technique ... most people don't sing correctly ... then you "wear out" your voice s the night goes on.

jmattbassplaya · #11 06-16-2012, 11:16 AM

Sounds like a guy who is only willing to give it his all if he's doing EXACTLY what he wants to do. We had a few guys like that on my competitive soccer team back in high school. They were crazy talents, but they were unwilling to do what was best for the team. Most got dropped before the end of their first season because, despite their potential, they brought the whole team down a peg. I'd kick him to the curb. Every band member needs to be willing to bend a little and give it their all on every song, even if it's a song they don't like too much.

cableguy · #12 06-16-2012, 11:35 AM

A lot of people have nailed what I would say....Poor technique, not hearing himself, etc. Maybe some of the songs are just out of his range. Does your band tune to 440? Maybe drop it down a tad so the songs fit his range better. If you need to, drop down a 1/2 step and see how he sounds. I'm not sure what the scene is like where you live, but finding singers for that style of music can be tough.

jmattbassplaya · #13 06-16-2012, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cableguy

A lot of people have nailed what I would say....Poor technique, not hearing himself, etc. Maybe some of the songs are just out of his range. Does your band tune to 440? Maybe drop it down a tad so the songs fit his range better. If you need to, drop down a 1/2 step and see how he sounds. I'm not sure what the scene is like where you live, but finding singers for that style of music can be tough.

If he's nailing the oldie stuff that he likes (ACDC and Zeppelin) but not nailing the modern stuff (and if he's nailing LZ then he should be able to do most any song) then I'm more inclined to believe it has little to anything to do with his ability and more to do with his attitude and desire to do more modern stuff that he doesn't know or doesn't like.

Dantreige · #14 06-16-2012, 12:11 PM

Do what I do. Sing them yourself.

Every band I have been in we have had multiple people singing. We pick songs based on what sounds good for our own voices. Everyone is different and has a different range.

You could try to drop your tuning. (I don't like this idea personaly. Better to get different material that your singer can sing comfortably.) Try to get him to stop smoking. (Pffft. Good luck with that.) Have some other members sing a few songs to give the guy a break. (Best idea.) Make sure he can hear himself good in the monitors. If he can't, have the rest of the band TURN DOWN! Maybe a vocal processor like the TC Electronics Voice Create or Voice Correct would help a bit.

The truth is, you can't fix this situation. Only the singer can. Does he know it's a problem? Have you discussed it? (Be careful here! You can piss someone off if you don't bring it up the right way!) Does he ever complain about not hearing himself when you practice or play? Does he ever say his voice is getting strained?

klokker · #15 06-16-2012, 12:54 PM

That would be tough, especially if all he does is sing. It's like "it's" there and then "it" dissappears instantly.

I know when I started singing I though it was passable, but when I heard it recorded I about melted into the floor. I was on key but just sounded like crap anyway.

It's helpful to hear yourself recorded.

Our vocals arn't perfect all the time, but we don't have a vocalist......we pretty much take turns, so no one wears out too bad.

klokker · #16 06-16-2012, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dantreige

Do what I do. Sing them yourself.

+1. We agreed that we rather sing bad than have someone who just sings. If everyone is singing once in a while it seems to keep the intensity and concentration up a bit. I think the crowd likes it too, when the bass player has a song or two every set.

Joe Milo · #17 06-17-2012, 06:45 AM

Some of the songs we do are in drop D....the rest of the songs are all in standard tuning 440.

My guitarist is a young guy...23! The kid can play! He can sing very well too....Matter of fact he sings When I come around by Green Day because our singer really can't nail the song......

I can't carry a tune in a bucket. I do some back up stuff when the song calls for it with the guitarist as well. SOme people have natural born talent....Others have to work to achieve being good at a skill......

Thanks guys for all the replies....I am going to suggest at practice sessions that our singer stands in front of the PA mains so he can hear what he sings......I will be tactful and suggest this.

In ear monitors are a great idea but pretty pricey....maybe after we do some gigs and get some cash rolling in could we get that system.