getting paid at the end of the night

[Megazap63]

Originally Posted by 4001

+1

'You don't screw around with people's money....'

++1

[steveksux]

Originally Posted by Deedubs

i disagree. i asked my band to give them 1/3 of our money already. they said screw them. i was still bothered by it so i offered them my money on my own, because i wanted to, and didnt really want permission, or force their hand. i sleep well at night, and if my band finds out they will understand once i explain it. if not oh well. i feel i did the right thing and im cool with that. so your opinion is yours, i see your point, but everthing isnt always black and white. at the end of the day i want to be true to myself and not force my band to share my opinion. that sir could bite me in the a** as well. good day.

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

OK, if that's the kind of people you want to hang with, more power to you.

Munji: truth so obvious, even a cave man can see it. You hit the nail on the head.

Beware working with folks that are willing to screw others. They will get around to you eventually when it's worth their while to do so.

FWIW, I can see both sides of the argument. Yes, leaving before getting paid is a recipe for getting screwed, not getting paid, and they'll be taught a valuable lesson.

That said, it's not an excuse for YOU to screw them over to teach that lesson. I mean the royal "you", not you, OP personally since you forked over your cash to make it right even when they didn't. Always deal with people fairly and honestly, bad news travels fast and the musicians community is a small one.

Randy

[bluewine]

For the op,

Can you give us a " ball park" figure of how much money you are talking about?

Blue

[El Barbero]

Originally Posted by Deedubs

i disagree. i asked my band to give them 1/3 of our money already. they said screw them. i was still bothered by it so i offered them my money on my own, because i wanted to, and didnt really want permission, or force their hand. i sleep well at night, and if my band finds out they will understand once i explain it. if not oh well. i feel i did the right thing and im cool with that. so your opinion is yours, i see your point, but everthing isnt always black and white. at the end of the day i want to be true to myself and not force my band to share my opinion. that sir could bite me in the a** as well. good day.

Just my opinion but you could do a lot worse than listen to Munji. Doing the right thing is always the right thing to do. Doing wrong is doing wrong no matter how you rationalise it, there is no grayscale. Other than that a great thread which has highlighted some some real serious life issues and produced some really questionable replys.

As a bonus we now know at least some of those that would be comfortable screwing someone over, if given the opportunity.

Just out of interest how loud would you squeal if you were screwed over. Would you write it of to a ´lesson learned`or would you set a value at where learning a lesson is too high a price to pay.

[Deedubs]

thanks for the replies everyone. my bl is a stand up guy. he works his ass off for our band and wont take a bigger cut then me or my drummer (even though we told he he should). he always splits the pay evenly with other bands on the bill (when the bar gives him all the money). this was just a rare occasion where the first band was very late and took a very long time to set up and when they finally were done setting up took a 20+ min break (strike one) and when they split whitout leaving anyone back to collect or didnt bother to make arrangments to get paid (strike two). that was enough for my bl to go along with the bars way of cutting the money. now if the first bands bl would of contacted him in a non threating way, my bl would have been WAY more understanding. so i guess his threating manner in his contact with my bl was his(strike 3).......but like i said i see both sides, dont think that there was any ABSOLUTE awnser here to force anyones hand. i just simply did what i felt was right to do for myself. im not looking to make anyone learn a lesson the hard way and have that bad feeling follow me around.

[Dean N]

It seemed to me that you started this thread because you really weren't sure what to do. Good on you for 1) being willing to admit you weren't sure what to do in such a weird situation and then asking for advice and then 2) actually listening, and then doing the right thing.

How much money it was is pretty much irrelevant. Ten bucks or 200 bucks, If the other guy earned it, he should have it. If you were willing to ask about it here, then you're certainly not too lazy to call the guy up and say "Surprise, I have money for you... come and get it". I bet that guy (and his band) will go to bat for you in the future.

[nashvillebill]

While I believe in karma, and I believe in doing what's right, I still don't see how the first band got "screwed over". If they didn't perform as requested, and they didn't bother to stick around or even make any arrangements for payment, IMHO they willingly abandoned their share of the night's pay.

But kudos to the OP for going above and beyond.

[Berger912]

Originally Posted by Deedubs

there was no agreement. i stole nothing. THEY org set up the gig and put out an add to fill slots. the bar is the the boss. the boss paid who they wanted. they wanted to pay who was there to get paid i guess.

Sorry, you my not have STOLE it, but is taking something you know isnt yours any better? and how are you responsible for the money? if i was the band leader i give them a third of our cut and let them get the other half from the other band. you should always try to do the right thing. if the agreement was you get a third of the door as say the door was $900 you deserve $300 and not a penny more. you know that or you wouldn't even have brought this up in the forum. no one can make you break your word but yourself. treat people the way YOU would like to be treated and the world will be a better place. They might have been jerks and in the end when they dont get asked to perform any more thats their Karma. if you stiff them and no one wants to do business with you that will be yours.

[nashvillebill]

Sorry but I disagree. the other two bands are irrelevant.

Suppose I hire three kids to rake my yard. One kid is supposed to rake my front yard. One kid is supposed to rake the side yard. One kid is supposed to rake my back yard. I tell them I'll pay them when they get done and I figure I'll give them $20 each for a total of $60.

Now the first kid only rakes half the yard, then he splits without saying a word to me or the other kids. The other two kids do their part, so I pay them; since the first kid split and didn't do his part, I decide to split the $60 between the two kids who held up to their bargain.

Are the other two kids responsible for the third kid's pay? Heck no! They worked and did their part and stuck around to get paid. I was generous and gave them more. If the first kid wanted to get money, he a) should've done what he agreed to and b) seen me to get paid. Not doing what he agreed to, and leaving without any communication between him and me, or him and the other guys, isn't the responsibility of the other two kids who did their job.

Look, I'm compassionate and I don't like to see people get screwed. But not doing your job and then leaving without any communication?

All it would've taken would've been a brief word to the other bands--"hey guys, we gotta split, please hold my share for me" and the situation would be different...well, then it'd be a question of "how much share should the opening act get when they don't meet their commitment" In that case, I totally would say they should get SOME pay... if they had only made even the tiniest bit of effort to get it.

[Berger912]

Originally Posted by nashvillebill

Sorry but I disagree. the other two bands are irrelevant.

Suppose I hire three kids to rake my yard. One kid is supposed to rake my front yard. One kid is supposed to rake the side yard. One kid is supposed to rake my back yard. I tell them I'll pay them when they get done and I figure I'll give them $20 each for a total of $60.

Now the first kid only rakes half the yard, then he splits without saying a word to me or the other kids. The other two kids do their part, so I pay them; since the first kid split and didn't do his part, I decide to split the $60 between the two kids who held up to their bargain.

Are the other two kids responsible for the third kid's pay? Heck no! They worked and did their part and stuck around to get paid. I was generous and gave them more. If the first kid wanted to get money, he a) should've done what he agreed to and b) seen me to get paid. Not doing what he agreed to, and leaving without any communication between him and me, or him and the other guys, isn't the responsibility of the other two kids who did their job.

Look, I'm compassionate and I don't like to see people get screwed. But not doing your job and then leaving without any communication?

All it would've taken would've been a brief word to the other bands--"hey guys, we gotta split, please hold my share for me" and the situation would be different...well, then it'd be a question of "how much share should the opening act get when they don't meet their commitment" In that case, I totally would say they should get SOME pay... if they had only made even the tiniest bit of effort to get it.

they did their job they played there set.

[nashvillebill]

No they didn't; they played a part of their commitment.

[Berger912]

the set would be the only true commitment, helping with equipment would have the right thing to do

[Deedubs]

Originally Posted by Berger912

Sorry, you my not have STOLE it, but is taking something you know isnt yours any better? and how are you responsible for the money? if i was the band leader i give them a third of our cut and let them get the other half from the other band. you should always try to do the right thing. if the agreement was you get a third of the door as say the door was $900 you deserve $300 and not a penny more. you know that or you wouldn't even have brought this up in the forum. no one can make you break your word but yourself. treat people the way YOU would like to be treated and the world will be a better place. They might have been jerks and in the end when they dont get asked to perform any more thats their Karma. if you stiff them and no one wants to do business with you that will be yours.

you do know that i decided to call their bl and offered then their money right? plus for the record like i said in the quote you quoted me in....there was no agreement. anyway ultimately i have taken the advice that you and many others here have stated and offered any or all of my share of the cut to the unpaid band. in not 100% convinced that we stole or took the first bands money, but i was uneasy keeping what would have been theirs if they would have been there to collect it or would have been theirs if they would have at least made arrangments to collect it at a later date. i kinda feel that maybe some of you havent read the whole thread or maybe still want to beat a dead horse or somthing .....but im not sure. anyway i decided to honor the first band grievances and offer to pay them the full 1/3 of the cut that my band gained in their absence. so thanks for being strait up with me and i admit i was working through my thought process though out this thread so i am aware that some of you may not be aware that i have decided to take the high road in this issue. i don't play music to for a living per say, i do it for the love of it. and at the end of the day i realized that i damn sure don't play music to make enemies.

[nashvillebill]

That's commendable...

Hey next time you need your kitchen painted, give me a call. I'll show up late, paint half of it, and leave unexpectedly. Afterwards, I'll expect you to hunt me down and pay me the full amount.

[fenderslaper]

Nashvillebill. I Glad that I'm in Cali and you are in Nashville because I would never want to end up on the same bill as you. Call me old school or traditional, or just plain honest, but taking another bands pay is flat out wrong and so is your lame lawn yarn. The OP has tried to make things right with the other band and I say again good on him for being a stand up guy.

[brianerwin]

My last comment on this issue: You have a good heart and I can appreciate that you are trying to do the right thing. I think you did some things right and I feel you have done some things wrong.
You talked to your BL about it, that was good, I am sure you told him your feelings and he understood.
you talked to the band. also good
You didn't tell us that your band decided not to cover them and that you were taking this on by yourself. You asked the unpaid band not to say anything about it to your band and you are trying to do this by yourself without telling your band..... That is not good at all. The truth ALWAYS comes out, I think you know this. That in itself will cause bad blood between you and your own band. That is suicide on your part with your band.
You never really answered our question: When did this become your problem to make sure that the other band got paid? who appointed you as the care taker of the unpaid band? Why are you even sticking your nose in about it?
This was a decision that needs to fall on the BL for all bands involved. AND the Club paying them.
It sounds like they all decided that the money got distributed evenly. It needs to stop there. You giving up your pay so that the other band gets its cut, is ridiculous.
My first instinct was that the unpaid band made some bad decisions, being late, taking extra time on their break and leaving the gig without making arrangements to get paid.
This is a classic blunder. other people saying that they left and got paid may be true but there is a whole lot of negotiations that went on before the band played one single note. Some of which I am willing to bet that there were contracts signed or arrangements made that were not discussed throughout the band members.
And really, who cares? everyone got paid..
I feel you are making a big issue of this thing that was over long ago and what you really need to do is stay out of it. Let the BL and the club owners fight this one out.
You got paid and all the members in your band got paid. At the end of the night, you did your job and your part and got paid...
End of story...

[Deedubs]

brianerwin: i mentioned that i told my band to pay them 1/3 of our cut. i also mentioned that they said screw them. i also decided myself that i myself wanted to offer the unpaid band my money because i didnt want any bad blood from strangers that thinks that i did them wrong and took their money. im a grown man and my band had one position and i had another, so this was my solution to be true to myself. i didnt really need the rest of my band to agree with me and give up 1/3 of their cut to do the right thing. i am in a good place with my position and i think maybe you need to calm down a little. if somthing involes me or reflects upon my personal character then i can "stick my nose in", and do what i want for MYSELF. im not tring to control how everyone else handles it. at the same time i did let my band know how i think WE should handle it. they didnt agree. if I want to give them any or all of MY money then thats My bussiness. if my band finds out then fine. i am ok with that.

[Stumbo]

Shakespeare's Hamlet:
Polonius:
This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.
Farewell, my blessing season this in thee!

Laertes:
Most humbly do I take my leave, my lord.



/thread

[mcnach]

Originally Posted by nashvillebill

That's commendable...

Hey next time you need your kitchen painted, give me a call. I'll show up late, paint half of it, and leave unexpectedly. Afterwards, I'll expect you to hunt me down and pay me the full amount.

I'm glad I'm too far and I'll never be playing with you, then.

Interesting to see people's true colours in these threads...

[lfmn16]

Originally Posted by mcnach

I'm glad I'm too far and I'll never be playing with you, then.

Interesting to see people's true colours in these threads...

+1

I'm too lazy to look it up but I would bet that most of the people that say it's OK to keep the money are the same people that said it was OK to keep the second amp head when some guy received two by mistake in another thread.

Just my experience, but I have never been sorry when I did the right thing and I have always been sorry when I didn't do the right thing.