Gig priorities.

[Pacman]

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

I do music for a living right now - as in 100% of the money that I make and put towards rent and food is from gigging, subbing, studio work, etc... It might not be the 'big leagues', but believe me, I get it too. But I also have learned a few things within my limited amount of time playing music live as a sub. For one, bands want a person who can sing backups. I had to learn how to sing and play at the same time in order to give myself that competitive advantage. That increased my worth. Likewise, I had to freshen up my sight reading skills if I wanted to land theater spots and more/better studio gigs, and that too increased my worth.

At least in my area, it's hard for bands to find subs who have those abilities and who, likewise, are reliable, consistently well-prepared, on time, knowledgeable in theory, etc... I'm not an easy guy to replace, and the bands I sub for know that. They also know that because of my skill sets I am worthwhile for bigger bands to hire, and they know those bands can also offer me better paying gigs that compete with their own gig offers towards me. They understand that me possibly dropping a gig (as long as I handle it in a professional manner and treat the situation with respect) isn't a big deal so long as they aren't left out to dry - it's simply business. If you guys handle things differently then that's cool; my scene just happens to be more realistic with expectations.

Sounds like we're in really similar boats. And you're 100% right - handle business professionally, and communicate at all times. Win/win.

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

I do music for a living right now - as in 100% of the money that I make and put towards rent and food is from gigging, subbing, studio work, etc... It might not be the 'big leagues', but believe me, I get it too. But I also have learned a few things within my limited amount of time playing music live as a sub. For one, bands want a person who can sing backups. I had to learn how to sing and play at the same time in order to give myself that competitive advantage. That increased my worth. Likewise, I had to freshen up my sight reading skills if I wanted to land theater spots and more/better studio gigs, and that too increased my worth.

At least in my area, it's hard for bands to find subs who have those abilities and who, likewise, are reliable, consistently well-prepared, on time, knowledgeable in theory, etc... I'm not an easy guy to replace, and the bands I sub for know that. They also know that because of my skill sets I am worthwhile for bigger bands to hire, and they know those bands can also offer me better paying gigs that compete with their own gig offers towards me. They understand that me possibly dropping a gig (as long as I handle it in a professional manner and treat the situation with respect) isn't a big deal so long as they aren't left out to dry - it's simply business. If you guys handle things differently then that's cool; my scene just happens to be more realistic with expectations.

Well, you didn't answer my question, but I don't disagree with what you said here. Certain music scenes, especially those with limited musician pools, might be more tolerant of a musicians who regularly renege on their commitments. Conversely, a musicians might be more tolerant of BLs that frequently undercuts him or cancels if the need the work due to financial obligations or limited opportunities (or it's just a kick-ass band). Or, a player might be so irreplaceable or talented that BLs might be willing to tolerate cancellations just to get him in the lineup. Lots of variables in addition to those I listed above; definitely too much for there to be a consistent answer to this issue. Professionalism is the key.

I am fortunate, I guess, to largely deal with musicians that honor their commitments, and to be able to avoid those that can't.

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by Freddels

Exactly, the BL changed the terms (extended the length of the gig b/c of his opportunity to make more).

And I don't need your condescending tone by referring to me as "friend".

Sigh. Changing the terms of a "contract" requires both parties to agree to it. One party can't change a contract without the consent of the other, or it voids the original deal. If you think of the "gig" as a "contract", you might get it.

[Freddels]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

Sigh. Changing the terms of a "contract" requires both parties to agree to it. One party can't change a contract without the consent of the other, or it voids the original deal. If you think of the "gig" as a "contract", you might get it.

Please school me on contracts.

[thepontif]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

Professionalism is the key.

I am fortunate, I guess, to largely deal with musicians that honor their commitments, and to be able to avoid those that can't.

Agreed. Compatible people find each other.

And good situation or bad, professional is the only way to be.

[One Bad Monkey]

Originally Posted by LeonD

Once I accept a gig for pay, I'd stick with it. I might try and find a replacement for the lower paying gig but if I can't, I'd do it.

It's just the right thing to do.

As a freelance musician, my business concept of "First come, first served" has saved my butt on more than one occasion. Honor your commitments and be gracious when turning down other gigs that come up; the people hiring you will appreciate that a lot more.

[hrodbert696]

This has been interesting to follow, especially for a guy like me at the bottom of the food chain. My initial reaction was always to keep the first commitment, for all the reasons of dependability and reputation, etc., but then I realized that I was only thinking in terms of giving up a $100/man bar gig for a $150/man bar gig. In general, I'd say that keeping the first commitment is the best route. But I suppose if Chris Squire collapsed and Yes called me up to sub for him on tour (yeah, like that would happen), I would cancel a $100 bar gig to go do it, sure. And I think my band would understand.

I think there are also other variables, like how much credibility have you already built up with this venue/BL in the past? It's one thing if you cancel on them the very first time they hire you, it's another if you have a long track record with them but the 60th time you're going to play with them, this one time an opportunity comes up you can't refuse. And, of course, the overall pecking-order thing.

There's also how much time you have to give notice; letting someone know a month ahead of time that they'll need to find a sub for you is a different matter than bailing the night before and making them scramble.

[thepontif]

Okay, so here's one particularly for you guys who very staunchly believe that you should never backed out of the gig for another that pays better.

Just a couple days ago I got a call for a gig that paid 500 bucks, but I already had a gig that night to pay 200. I turned down the 500 dollar gig because I was already booked. Giving up $300 in the month of January was not easy to do knowing that it's a light month. But, I do believe that my word has value too, and in the long run it is smarter for me to honor my commitment.

So for you guys who strongly believe that you should never back out of a gig, is there a threshold where you make an exception and what is it?

And please bear in mind I'm not asking you if there should be a threshold where I would make an exception, I'm just asking about you.

A gig that pays five times more than another could be the difference between $50 and $250.

But what if it's the difference between $400 and $2000? Like, I could pay my car payment this month with this gig, or I could pay my mortgage this month with this other gig. Do you hold on to the big picture perspective where your word in the long run is worth more than the mortgage payment for that one month?

I'm not trying to be argumentative here. I am really just curious how many people actually do have a price at some point.

[intheory]

Originally Posted by thepontif

Okay, so here's one particularly for you guys who very staunchly believe that you should never backed out of the gig for another that pays better.

Just a couple days ago I got a call for a gig that paid 500 bucks, but I already had a gig that night to pay 200. I turned down the 500 dollar gig because I was already booked. Giving up $300 in the month of January was not easy to do knowing that it's a light month. But, I do believe that my word has value too, and in the long run it is smarter for me to honor my commitment.

So for you guys who strongly believe that you should never back out of a gig, is there a threshold where you make an exception and what is it?

And please bear in mind I'm not asking you if there should be a threshold where I would make an exception, I'm just asking about you.

A gig that pays five times more than another could be the difference between $50 and $250.

But what if it's the difference between $400 and $2000? Like, I could pay my car payment this month with this gig, or I could pay my mortgage this month with this other gig. Do you hold on to the big picture perspective where your word in the long run is worth more than the mortgage payment for that one month?

I'm not trying to be argumentative here. I am really just curious how many people actually do have a price at some point.

Personally, I think you did the right thing. I'm in a committed, full time band right now, so I haven't subbed out since our inception 16 months ago. But when I was doing some freelance work, I always kept with the first commitment. Reputation is worth it's weight in gold, right?

I hear you on the $400 vs $2k scenario-that's a bridge I haven't crossed...and honestly it would be a tough decision, and one that would test my principle listed above most likely (we all have our price, don't we? )
But I think living by principle will get us through most scenarios.

[RustyAxe]

Originally Posted by thepontif

So for you guys who strongly believe that you should never back out of a gig, is there a threshold where you make an exception and what is it?

Fortunately I belong to a band whose members are experienced, been doing it for decades, are communicative, and "get it". I'd have no problem telling the BL about the second offer, and he'd have no problem using a sub for that night. But it would have to be a significantly higher rate.

Now, if the first gig was a sub or fill-in, I'd most likely honor my commitment ... and preserve my good reputation. No band leader I know would want to have to find a sub for the sub he already hired ... that's a sure way to be taken off the "go to" list.

[vlado]

If I agreed I'll come and play, even if it's for free, I will do my best to show up and play. The exception could be if I can agree with the management of the venue to postpone the gig I already said I'd do and if they're cool with it.

[Phil Smith]

There's a lot of factors in this new scenario. You could have a situation where you accepted the $200 gig, but you can sub the $200 gig out because they don't specifically need you "thepontif". The sub you use is someone that needs the $200 gig and the opportunity that it will provide for them and you take the $500 gig and the opportunity that it will provide for you and the $500 gig specifically needs the "thepontif" on it.

[thepontif]

Originally Posted by Phil Smith

There's a lot of factors in this new scenario. You could have a situation where you accepted the $200 gig, but you can sub the $200 gig out because they don't specifically need you "thepontif". The sub you use is someone that needs the $200 gig and the opportunity that it will provide for them and you take the $500 gig and the opportunity that it will provide for you and the $500 gig specifically needs the "thepontif" on it.

The $200 or $500 scenario is an easy one I think. I'm talking more about something like 400 bucks compared to $2000.

And one other really important factor as you guys answer this is do you have a day gig that already paid you enough to cover your monthly budget, or do you rely solely on gigs to pay your mortgage/bills.

[HolmeBass]

Originally Posted by thepontif

Okay, so here's one particularly for you guys who very staunchly believe that you should never backed out of the gig for another that pays better.

Just a couple days ago I got a call for a gig that paid 500 bucks, but I already had a gig that night to pay 200. I turned down the 500 dollar gig because I was already booked. Giving up $300 in the month of January was not easy to do knowing that it's a light month. But, I do believe that my word has value too, and in the long run it is smarter for me to honor my commitment.

So for you guys who strongly believe that you should never back out of a gig, is there a threshold where you make an exception and what is it?

And please bear in mind I'm not asking you if there should be a threshold where I would make an exception, I'm just asking about you.

A gig that pays five times more than another could be the difference between $50 and $250.

But what if it's the difference between $400 and $2000? Like, I could pay my car payment this month with this gig, or I could pay my mortgage this month with this other gig. Do you hold on to the big picture perspective where your word in the long run is worth more than the mortgage payment for that one month?

I'm not trying to be argumentative here. I am really just curious how many people actually do have a price at some point.

First a joke: first world problems! A $200 or a $500 gig, hmm...

If I could give 4 weeks notice, I would ditch the $200 for the $500 one. With less than two weeks notice, plus a capable sub, I would probably just accept my fate and keep the $200 gig. Frankly, I am happy making $200 on a gig.

On trading up from $400 to $2000, I would also bail immediately with at least 4 weeks notice, but even if it was the night before I'd call the BL of the $400 gig and let him know where I was, with a $2000 offer, and try to brainstorm a possible sub or some other solution. I would also ask for an increase in pay, another $50 or $100 - call it extortion if you want to, but all of a sudden I am worth $2000 that night!

But my context is drastically different, too. My mortgage is covered by a job (which I should be doing right now...) and I usually gig for $50 - $100. The most I have ever been paid for a single engagement is $700, and that involved 6 hours of driving to the gig, playing for 3 hours, and turning right around and driving back home. So the idea of a $2000 gig is a bit mind-blowing to me, and any BL I work with would also appreciate the awesomeness of something like that.

[derrico1]

Originally Posted by HolmeBass

On trading up from $400 to $2000, I would also bail immediately with at least 4 weeks notice, but even if it was the night before I'd call the BL of the $400 gig and let him know where I was, with a $2000 offer, and try to brainstorm a possible sub...

Feel free to call me any time you need a sub for your $400 gigs.

[thepontif]

Originally Posted by HolmeBass

First a joke: first world problems! A $200 or a $500 gig, hmm...

If I could give 4 weeks notice, I would ditch the $200 for the $500 one. With less than two weeks notice, plus a capable sub, I would probably just accept my fate and keep the $200 gig. Frankly, I am happy making $200 on a gig.

On trading up from $400 to $2000, I would also bail immediately with at least 4 weeks notice, but even if it was the night before I'd call the BL of the $400 gig and let him know where I was, with a $2000 offer, and try to brainstorm a possible sub or some other solution. I would also ask for an increase in pay, another $50 or $100 - call it extortion if you want to, but all of a sudden I am worth $2000 that night!

But my context is drastically different, too. My mortgage is covered by a job (which I should be doing right now...) and I usually gig for $50 - $100. The most I have ever been paid for a single engagement is $700, and that involved 6 hours of driving to the gig, playing for 3 hours, and turning right around and driving back home. So the idea of a $2000 gig is a bit mind-blowing to me, and any BL I work with would also appreciate the awesomeness of something like that.

And contact does really have a lot to do with it. If somebody has a day gig where all of their monthly budget is covered on a consistent basis, then the extra money is literally that, it's extra money. If that were the case with me, I absolutely would turn down the $2000 gig and do the one that I was committed to doing.

I just wonder about guys who get in situations where they realize they don't have enough money to pay their bills that month, and then opportunity to make enough comes up. I still find myself in that situation every once in a while. But I suspect there are other guys who deal with it very frequently.

My brother is a banker and have a fairly comfortable lifestyle as of it. He only takes gig but he wants to take regardless of what they pay. Fortunately, he is a great musician and a very reliable guy. So it works out for him pretty well.

[thepontif]

That was supposed to say context, not contact. This voice recognition stuff on the iPhone is pretty cool, but it's far from perfect.

[nutdog]

I'm in several local bands. Strictly small potatoes. The biggest things are $300-400/person weddings but mostly $75-200/person parties/events. Almost all of us have other "real" jobs.

We are blessed to have a world class horn player with several gold records and big time tours under his belt. He makes his living playing. For reasons unknown he enjoys playing with us.

He has taken other big time gigs when we had one booked. We were all excited for him. It would never occur to me to be pi$$ed. If any of our group had a great opportunity I would never expect them to not take it because they should 'do what they said they would do'. I would feel like a selfish ass.

Conversely, we had a $200/man wedding gig that he declined because he was already booked for a $50 local gig. If I had him booked for the $50 gig and he told me he had a better offer I'd tell him to take it because I know that's how he makes his living.

I appreciate the 'my word is gold' sentiment but reasonable people can change plans and do it all the time.

[thepontif]

Originally Posted by nutdog

I'm in several local bands. Strictly small potatoes. The biggest things are $300-400/person weddings but mostly $75-200/person parties/events. Almost all of us have other "real" jobs.

We are blessed to have a world class horn player with several gold records and big time tours under his belt. He makes his living playing. For reasons unknown he enjoys playing with us.

He has taken other big time gigs when we had one booked. We were all excited for him. It would never occur to me to be pi$$ed. If any of our group had a great opportunity I would never expect them to not take it because they should 'do what they said they would do'. I would feel like a selfish ass.

Conversely, we had a $200/man wedding gig that he declined because he was already booked for a $50 local gig. If I had him booked for the $50 gig and he told me he had a better offer I'd tell him to take it because I know that's how he makes his living.

I appreciate the 'my word is gold' sentiment but reasonable people can change plans and do it all the time.

Right. It's really all in how you handle it. And how well you know the band leaders. Some men leaders are just hard asses, and some are not. I guess it's like anything else...you have to deal with the personalities.

[DWBass]

That is a rough one. I've had to turn down several well paying gigs because I was already booked! But it's getting harder to refuse them because they pay so well. I have a couple guys I can call to sub but they are in bands too but I'll try my best to find a sub!