Gigging without a cabinet

[Shardik]

Now... I really think everyone is individual. Living in a big city often means that owning a car is not common due to lack of parking, challenging traffic and a rather good public transportation system.

I do understand OPs frustration with 1) being dictated on what equipment to get and 2) not getting any understanding about physical limitations.

Being in a band is a team effort, even though the organization structure may vary. I suspect most drummers have transport challenges as well, and many bands get deals on loaning small vans when getting to and from gigs. How does this band do that? Is it that impossible to have a cab in the rehearsals room that can be transported along with other gear to gigs?

The drummer insisting on a 15" speaker is IMHO out of line. If the drummer has sound engineering experience, he would know that getting the deepest bass frequencies into the PA is best done by DI. A lot of sound engineers mic the cab for upper range tone and adds DI for the lower range. The added range of a 15" does not add much to stage monitoring either, as the ear is more sensitive in the higher range. An angled 210 may do just as good a job for stage monitoring, while DI (and the alternative mic) to the PA does the job for the audience.

I understand the drummer has the best intentions for the band in mind, but being in a band also means respecting the individuals of the band and their preferences. I suppose he wouldn't be happy about the bass player making suggestions on what drums or cymbals to choose, either.
On a light note: More cowbell, anyone?

[PEERLESS]

im a former audio engineer for acts such as elton john,reba,brooks and dunn etc.im also a bass player of 25+ years. i can tell you this it is best to not use a cab. the reason, more for the pa system to compete with. seeing that low end frequencies are universal and have no directional path,you will experience more bleed through of the stage mics... the less sound you have on stage, the better.. i have acts right now that have absolutely no stage sound whatso ever... the result.. better than cd quality live sound. how is this done you might ask.. very simple.. all instruments are direct with in ear monitor system. ask any experienced engineer and they will tell you, less sound on stage, better sound out front.i also used this technique on all the bass players on bourbon street.. they all loved it.however you dont need the in ear system to do this, simply have the engineer send your signal"post" to your monitor, now the frequencies will be in the opposite direction and wont compete with the system.not to mention a better stage mix. hope this helps.

[Shardik]

IEM is great, but expensive for small bands with no funds. It is not a given that local PA support this. Are stage monitors a given for local PA?

No stage sound is kinda utopia, though, unless you are doing electric drums... ... .come to think of it ....

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by hernameisrio

Like I said, when I have the money, I'll get what *I* need. I have NO problem with that. What I DO have a problem with, is someone I haven't even played a gig with yet who isn't paying me, telling me what I "really should" get. I am not whining about buying a rig. I get it...I want one...I'll have one. I'm not even implying that they should carry it for me, just that it's always nice when band mates help each other out in situations where we are ultimately the band equivalent of a low-budget indie film. If some bigger more established band told me I had to have a car and/or a rig and they were paying me, therefore funding these things, I'd be scrambling and tripping over myself even more than I already am. Dude...you don't have to tell me what I essentially already know. Do you have any idea how incredibly frustrating it is to be told, "oh sorry, you're a ($&@ing cripple with no car and no trust fund, better luck next time"?! Do people tell guys in wheelchairs to forget about running the marathon and go learn how to knit?! Try me...I am literally willing to do ANYTHING to be successful as a bassist...but on my own terms, which means, nothing that will permanently disable me, and nothing that involves working with the wrong people.

Cart before the horse. You can't expect to get the better gigs without the gear.

[hernameisrio]

Fine, I guess I'll just throw $400 at a neo 112, $500 or so at a lightweight head, live off cereal for the next few months to afford it, go to the DMV to spend $100 to renew my permit, and call the driving school down the street to spend $500 on lessons. Oh wait, then I still have to get a car. Hey, I know...I could just sell some of my bass gear.

You guys. Literally, as soon as I can count out $1000 and still pay rent, it will go towards a rig. As for my other logistical roadblocks, I am doing what I can...but it can only happen so fast. I fully realize that I am in the loophole from hell. It is extremely stressful. I'm not putting the cart before the horse....I'm putting all my time, money, and energy into NEVER HAVING TO HAVE THIS $$$$$$$ CONVERSATION AGAIN.

[Shardik]

Let's work with realistic boundaries here. In one of the first posts you said:
"I have some money to throw around because I did my taxes early. Not a lot, but at the least, things aren't as tight as they've been. "

So this means there is a budget.

Now, I'd really sit down with this band and talk about the boundaries and try to reach a compromise. Mailing is to slow a form of communication, and there is so much room for misunderstandings.

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by hernameisrio

Fine, I guess I'll just throw $400 at a neo 112, $500 or so at a lightweight head, live off cereal for the next few months to afford it, go to the DMV to spend $100 to renew my permit, and call the driving school down the street to spend $500 on lessons. Oh wait, then I still have to get a car. Hey, I know...I could just sell some of my bass gear.

You guys. Literally, as soon as I can count out $1000 and still pay rent, it will go towards a rig. As for my other logistical roadblocks, I am doing what I can...but it can only happen so fast. I fully realize that I am in the loophole from hell. It is extremely stressful. I'm not putting the cart before the horse....I'm putting all my time, money, and energy into NEVER HAVING TO HAVE THIS F$$$ING CONVERSATION AGAIN.

At least you're level headed about it.......

Buy a small lightweight cabinet, and get a lightweight folding cart like a magna cart. You would be able to carry that on the subway or fit it in a cab. Problem solved and you're on your way to having a bare bones setup needed by a serious bassist.

[SBassman]

Why discrete amp and cab? Why not an ultralight combo?

My GK MB112 - with 200watt amp and speaker - weight 28 pounds. Inexpensive, light - and great. Put that sucker on a little cart, and you'll travel anywhere with ease.

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by SBassman

Why discrete amp and cab? Why not an ultralight combo?

My GK MB112 - with 200watt amp and speaker - weight 28 pounds. Inexpensive, light - and great. Put that sucker on a little cart, and you'll travel anywhere with ease.

And costs $375 new....shipped to your door. A really good solution.

[guy n. cognito]

Magna Cart. Super light, super strong and super cheap. I have two of them, and I've used them everywhere.

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...32-225133381-2

[ChrisB2]

Maybe the drummer's heart IS in the right place albeit the gear advice is a little off. While there's nothing wrong with a BA115, it's obvious that he doesn't know that much about bass gear. That's a fine amp but it sounds like a recommendation you'd get from a sales clerk at Best Buy... not very knowledgeable.

But... I think what's happening is that they like you, they want you, but they're concerned about your lack of gear and they're just trying to help steer you into what they think you need. If a friend was going to build a deck but all he had was some basic tools, and I knew a little more than he did about what tools to buy, I might make suggestions like your drummer did. Not expert advice by Bob Vila, but the best I could do to help out. I said before, you need a rig. Yes, get what you want, get what works for you, when you can afford it. But in the meantime I can understand a band having this concern and looking for ways to make it work instead of just kicking you. As you say, you've only rehearsed with them a few times... is it reasonable to expect them to have deep feelings of concern over your health? Sure they want you to be fine, but they also want to hear you...

i.e., maybe your band is not as sinister, devious, and mean as you seem to believe they are.

I agree with the poster who said you should talk face to face. On something like this, email is too slow and impersonal.

Good luck!

[xgator4u]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

I'm sorry if the following seems harsh to you, hernameisrio, but you need to hear it:

1. Why would anyone take a musician seriously if they don't have a means to amplify themselves and expect others to do it for them?
2. Why would anyone take a musician seriously if they expect (or demand) assistance transporting even the most basic of gear?

Almost every add on craigslist says: "Must own professional gear and have reliable transportation." Ever seen one that says "we love carrying your gear. No cabinets, please." ???????

Go ahead. Start making demands and setting boundaries. You'll find yourself without a band. Better yet: Get a cart, get a lightweight head and start taking your role as a bassist as seriously as you expect from others.

This.
A LOT of people claim to be this or that " Guitar player, drummer, bassist, or carpenter/plumber/electrician" or whatever they claim to be. When you ask them what kind of tool they use ( place instrument, and all gear needed to do the job here } to do the job, and the answer is " well, I don't actually have a" guitar, or a set of drums, or a hammer or whatever tool is standard for that job. This individual {and we have all met them} is either no more than an aspiring guitarist/plumber, or is a charlatan. If this person then goes on the interwebz, and asks for advice, they are a TROLL.

I am not saying the O.P. IS any of these, but every suggestion made, has been met with excuses. And self contradicting statements.

[hernameisrio]

Where in this thread am I making "excuses?" I have a medical condition, why is that difficult to understand? I have financial limitations, I can't just magically make thousands of dollars appear. I have transportation issues, I can't just magically fix that. I'm not making excuses. I am giving very legitimate reasons as to why it's not so simple for me to solve this problem. Hey, it sucks for me, right? Lucky you, you probably have more money than me and a car. You probably also can sleep on your left side without being in pain. Why don't you just rub it in my face a little more? I'm not "claiming" to be a bassist, I AM one, just like you! It's not like I don't have a bass! I'm doing everything I can with what I have and then some! Do you have any idea of the personal sacrifices I have had to make to get where I am?! Do you have any idea what my life was like a year ago?

Well, since you think I'm making EXCUSES, I'll tell you. I was killing myself trying to find a job so I could afford to stay in this godforsaken hellhole of a city and keep playing and keep trying. I was killing myself to jump through bureacratic hoops and get on food stamps so that I could eat so I could have the energy to keep playing. Approximately 90% of my limited disposable income has been spent on bass gear. I was broke, I was miserable, I hated my life, and the ONLY THING....THE ONLY THING...that kept me going, was my bass.

I'll tell you where you can put your goddamn excuses. Don't ever tell me that I'm not a bassist because I don't have 85 pounds of fancy bass rig. I'm sorry, but I have to stand up for myself a little here. I am not a hack, I am not a troll, I am not some poseur pretending to be a bass player. So think about the fact that everybody comes from different financial backgrounds and different life situations, before you throw around statements like that.

[jlane72t]

It's clear that you're not looking for advice or a solution; you're looking for support of your already firmly established point of view.

Most of these posts are providing the same (correct) answer; you need to buy a lightweight amp ASAP. If not for the short-term problems, than for the long-term. Sooner or later you'll show up at a gig with insufficient PA support. Your answer to that is to keep screaming that you can't afford to drop a grand on it right now, completely disregarding the info that most of the suggested rigs cost half that. Heck the BA115 your drummer suggested can be found on craigslist for $250 all day long.

But don't worry, I have confidence this drummer won't be giving you a problem much longer. Seeing how you have gotten so aggressively combative with friendly people trying to help answer the question you asked, combined with the fact that you're still kind of in the audition phase with these guys....soon you won't have to worry about hauling amps to practice or gigs.

But for the NEXT band...still...you're gonna need an amp.

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by hernameisrio

Where in this thread am I making "excuses?" I have a medical condition, why is that difficult to understand? I have financial limitations, I can't just magically make thousands of dollars appear. I have transportation issues, I can't just magically fix that. I'm not making excuses. I am giving very legitimate reasons as to why it's not so simple for me to solve this problem. Hey, it sucks for me, right? Lucky you, you probably have more money than me and a car. You probably also can sleep on your left side without being in pain. Why don't you just rub it in my face a little more? I'm not "claiming" to be a bassist, I AM one, just like you! It's not like I don't have a bass! I'm doing everything I can with what I have and then some! Do you have any idea of the personal sacrifices I have had to make to get where I am?! Do you have any idea what my life was like a year ago?

Well, since you think I'm making EXCUSES, I'll tell you. I was killing myself trying to find a job so I could afford to stay in this godforsaken hellhole of a city and keep playing and keep trying. I was killing myself to jump through bureacratic hoops and get on food stamps so that I could eat so I could have the energy to keep playing. Approximately 90% of my limited disposable income has been spent on bass gear. I was broke, I was miserable, I hated my life, and the ONLY THING....THE ONLY THING...that kept me going, was my bass.

I'll tell you where you can put your goddamn excuses. Don't ever tell me that I'm not a bassist because I don't have 85 pounds of fancy bass rig. I'm sorry, but I have to stand up for myself a little here. I am not a hack, I am not a troll, I am not some poseur pretending to be a bass player. So think about the fact that everybody comes from different financial backgrounds and different life situations, before you throw around statements like that.

I think everyone understands this. That is why many people have given you inexpensive, lightweight options to get the gear you need. The GK combo and cart mentioned above would cost you $400 total, and would be portable in almost any scenario.

You clearly want us to tell you that your drummer is being unreasonable. Sorry, I think he's dead on. You might be a bassist, but you don't possess even the most basic gear necessary to be a GIGGING bassist. I wouldn't hire a drummer that didn't have drums, or a guitarist that didn't have an amp. Why should you expect them to hire a bassist that doesn't have an amp.

You have physical limitations. Guess what? Many of us do. I also have a rotator cuff injury and have to be careful. Don't use it an excuse as to why others need to accommodate you. Rather, make your own adjustments so that you can pursue your dreams without having to rely on others to adjust to your shortcomings.

[xgator4u]

Originally Posted by hernameisrio

Where in this thread am I making "excuses?" I have a medical condition, why is that difficult to understand? I have financial limitations, I can't just magically make thousands of dollars appear. I have transportation issues, I can't just magically fix that. I'm not making excuses. I am giving very legitimate reasons as to why it's not so simple for me to solve this problem. Hey, it sucks for me, right? Lucky you, you probably have more money than me and a car. You probably also can sleep on your left side without being in pain. Why don't you just rub it in my face a little more? I'm not "claiming" to be a bassist, I AM one, just like you! It's not like I don't have a bass! I'm doing everything I can with what I have and then some! Do you have any idea of the personal sacrifices I have had to make to get where I am?! Do you have any idea what my life was like a year ago?

Well, since you think I'm making EXCUSES, I'll tell you. I was killing myself trying to find a job so I could afford to stay in this godforsaken hellhole of a city and keep playing and keep trying. I was killing myself to jump through bureacratic hoops and get on food stamps so that I could eat so I could have the energy to keep playing. Approximately 90% of my limited disposable income has been spent on bass gear. I was broke, I was miserable, I hated my life, and the ONLY THING....THE ONLY THING...that kept me going, was my bass.

I'll tell you where you can put your goddamn excuses. Don't ever tell me that I'm not a bassist because I don't have 85 pounds of fancy bass rig. I'm sorry, but I have to stand up for myself a little here. I am not a hack, I am not a troll, I am not some poseur pretending to be a bass player. So think about the fact that everybody comes from different financial backgrounds and different life situations, before you throw around statements like that.

WHOA There . In the first place, I clearly stated I WAS NOT saying you were these things, just pointing out how it looks to everyone else. Probably those band mates as well.

The response from you was rude, and un-called for.
Good luck to you.

[hernameisrio]

Look, I'm sorry to fly off the handle...it was not cool and it was a rare moment for me. But I'm just really frustrated. I've been kinda overworked lately and I guess it caught up to me. I appreciate the advice you guys have given, for sure. And yeah, it all seems to point in the same direction. I just get prickly when people imply that I am totally screwed because of my shoulder injury or forever limited because of not having a car or whatever...I'm already aware that I will have to either solve or work around these problems, and a lot of the reasons why I have these problems are actually kinda personal and hard to explain.

So again, I'm sorry, I know you guys have good intentions and I'm thankful for the links and recommendations. I'm leaning towards getting an Ampeg PF350 that I've seen on Ebay here and there, and a G-K Neo 112. If I can get $200 or so for the SessionBass head, it's still a little scary to be spending money like that right now, but you are right...when I actually look around at some of these lightweight options and do the math, it's really not as expensive as it seems. And I definitely think it'll be worth it.

Don't worry, jlane72t. I'll find a band with the right people, and no, I WON'T have to worry about hauling amps to practice or gigs because I will buy a lightweight rig and do what I have to do.

Sorry to blow up, y'all. I hope we can still be friends. <3

[ShoeManiac]

Originally Posted by SBassman

Why discrete amp and cab? Why not an ultralight combo?

My GK MB112 - with 200watt amp and speaker - weight 28 pounds. Inexpensive, light - and great. Put that sucker on a little cart, and you'll travel anywhere with ease.

If you've been following the thread, the OP is playing in NYC. And here you've got a lot of clubs that have house backlines. In some cases that means an amp & cabinet are provided by the venue. But in some clubs that might mean there's only a cabinet. Having a seperate head and cab can give you some more options in those house backline situations.

OP: I've seen the PF-350 going for under $300 recently. The lowest I can recall seeing is $250 or $275. You might want to check on the weight though. I've got a PF-500, and it weighs 11 lbs, and I think the PF-350 is at least 8 lbs.. That's still more than the weight of my Eden WTX-500, which is 4.5 lbs. And I think one of the GK micro heads is even smaller/lighter than that.

[SBassman]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

Magna Cart. Super light, super strong and super cheap. I have two of them, and I've used them everywhere.

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...32-225133381-2

Wow. Great price. I need that.

[hernameisrio]

Maybe I'll ride on the Magna Cart and just have people push me to gigs. Weeee!