Given an ultimatum

[Stewie26]

Originally Posted by jgroh

And as someone else said here, if it sounds good in the mix, then who cares if there are minor string squeaks or noises.

I have done years of recording with multiple bass players. Its pretty much normal that the recording will pick up some finger, pick noises, etc, and will be heard when you listen to the bass track "Stark Naked." I have found that a good honest way to evaluate a bass track is to listen to it with the percussion tracks behind it. Many times those so called noises are in perfect time syn with the percusion tracks and can add an additional substance to the pocket, groove and even punch to the final mix of a song. It may just be that the bass player was feeling the song when recording it. I am willing to bet that very few guitars players are even aware of the above.

[Lackey]

1) Practice with a metronome
2) Switch to Elixir strings to help with the noise issue
3) Set your bass up better; action and neck bow
4) Work on dynamics; play the same song both very quietly and very powerfully.

[JakeF]

Take everything I say with a grain of salt.

Q. 1) Self-Esteem :

A: Can't help you their. It is a feeling that is tough to learn from. Doesn't help that they are using it to put pressure on you as that is hurting your performance. I would TELL them that what they are doing is making you nervous and difficult to perform. This kind of behavior often results in long-term resentment and in a few years you may end up really hating those players if you don't call them out on the way they are treating you. Used to have the same problem.

Q. 2) Isolated track/fret noise problems.

A: Okay, this may sound different to alot of people but as a predominately guitar player who used to have this problem I found a technique related solution that cleaned up my sound immensely. Super heavy attack. It may seem odd but a classical player once told me one of the most important skills he ever learned was too play quietly...loudly. This further reduces the pops and slides as your attack will mask the sounds and your forceful playing will make your "fingers" shine through more. Choose to play lightly, but be capable of putting yourself up front, especially with the big bass driven song you have coming. Additionally, get a multitrack, even a cheap Tascam four track, you can really hammer on this isolating tracks yourself.

Q. 3) 6 weeks to improve?

A: Decide exactly what you need to improve. Then use a practice routine to do so. If it is cleanliness of playing I recommend applying Mike Mangini's insane practice routine. It is insane but can do the trick in 6 weeks. You are already practicing alot more than his hella painful 90 minute exercise but doing a focused exercise like that can really blow your mind in regards to improvement.

If you are having problems working with/understanding effects go read Ishkur's guide to Electronic music. Then go to DI.FM and listen to some electronic music in genre's that rely on texture heavily such as Deep House, Lounge, Chillout etc. to start and then move to the styles closer to what you are playing. This stuff is dominated by textures/effects.

If it is timing related then try Victor Wootens sequencing exercise of having the drums/metronome drop out for four bars and when it comes back in you will see how far you drift.

Commentary.

In six weeks they go into the studio. Great. Let us just suppose that they are unhappy with you. Who are they going to replace you with? You mention you had trouble with a complex line doing a scratch demo. Guess what, they are applying social pressure to prevent that from happening when the clock is ticking. Your self-esteem is being manipulated here.

I also think the isolated track thing is stupid. If they need that level of perfection tell them to dump their instruments and just sequence everything. Heaven forbid a bass sound like a bass.

I also like the idea MNAirHead came up with. Offer to let a session player come in if you have too much trouble. Good idea.

Finally, understand this, and these are my most important words/ideas that I can come up with. I was talking to a friend about some previous experience and what happens when you succeed, when you make it to the top, when everything you ever hoped for comes true, guess what? Everything you do will be justified, and you know what? Everything that is wrong with you will be told is alright.

And you will still have all the same problems. All the same feelings. Doing this, succeeding and living your wildest dreams will not fix you. It will just surround you with people who say it is okay. Think of your biggest heroes. If Bootsy Collins and I were sitting next to each other a few years back doing a bunch of drugs and he said "I think I've done too much" what would you say? Would it be "Nah man, your cool" or would it be "I don't know man, did you?" These answers are RADICALLY different more than you expect.

You CAN be fixed and find a way to live with yourself and become strong. But first you must begin an earnest path of fixing what is wrong. The next 6 weeks are going to be rough, but whether you succeed or fail guess what, you still have the self-esteem to deal with. Get a good therapist sir. You are unique, but the problem is not. Get help and the next time they start doing that, strike back. When you can strike back you will know you are okay because then you will rule your self-esteem and not the other way around.

Good luck and can't wait to hear how it comes out.

[JimiLL]

Ha my tracks can sound downright awful solo'd, but add in all the layers and distorted guitars and all is well again

[Renaissance]

Originally Posted by LuckyPants

I'm not sure if this is the right section for this.

About 6 months ago I was looking to join a band and in my musolist advert I emphasised the fact that I was an average bassist, quite limited in technique but with a good understanding of the instrument and a motivation level that cannot be matched.

A band got in touch and they're 3 musical geniuses who play EXACTLY the type of music that inspires me. We have 19 incredible original songs all perfected and I enjoy practice a lot. I also practice for 6 hours a day outside of band practice (which is 3/4 times a week) because I want to improve.

Last night they delivered an ultimatum, that I had to improve my technique drastically because we're going into the studio in 6 weeks and they don't want to waste money and have me not be capable of performing. My problem is that I have horrific self-esteem and as far as I'm concerned, I'm the worst bassist to pick up the godly instrument (I've been playing 9 years though). So I can't exactly practice anymore than I do and I don't think I'm going to improve in 6 weeks.

I don't want to quit a perfect band, I write amazing basslines for our style of music (their words, not mine) and I am as solid as a rock at gigs but they don't trust my recording ability and I don't think I can improve that in 6 weeks.

Should I just quit instead of holding them back?

Who are these three musical geniuses that needed a bass player, as you described yourself? Surely they are household names to us on here! They may have better musical knowledge and more experience than you but musical geniuses they are not and you need to quit thinking of them this way. Do you think Beethoven would be using CL to find a bass player? Strike one against them.

According to them you write amazing bass lines and are rock solid at gigs - but they are going to drop you? Something smells fishy here. Two sides to every story of course but your post sounds articulate and honest so I'm siding with you. Strike two against them.

Do not confuse time spent practicing with productive practicing. I've made that mistake myself. "Man, I'm putting in the hours but I'm not getting...". If you can, get some time with a pro. You would be surprised how much progress you can make in 6 weeks time with a pro - especially with your technique.

The way I see it these guys are one strike away from losing a dedicated and engaging bassist. A bassist who is obviously concerned about fitting in with the band and who wants to improve his chops. IMHO you need to *itch slap these fools (figuratively) and get a little respect. You have value - remind them! You already think you have one foot out the door, you've got nothing to lose.

[dbd1963]

I think these guys are jerkwads. I know you like the music and think they fit you perfectly, but believe me, you'll be better off in another band.

As far as confidence, keep practicing. Eventually, even if you don't become a virtuoso, you'll know what you know and know that you know it.

[MysticMichael]

Originally Posted by Hobobob

They are a bunch of A-holes who are taking advantage of your shyness and social awkwardness. Basically, they're bullies. I guarantee you the distortion sound I like would probably tick off quite a few other musicians. Why? SUBJECTIVE OPINION. If they don't like the sound you're getting, they can at least help you to find a more agreeable tone. And ragging on you for fret buzz and string noise? Hilarious.

I agree with Bob. These guys are pushing you around - because they can. Any musical and/or technical issues that may exist here - if they actually exist - are only a distant secondary concern...if that.

The real problem is that they have become accustomed to the fact that you don't push back when they push you, and you don't stick up for your own ideas when you have them. Every full band member has the right to be heard - and to be respected - when he has something to say, whether or not his views or ideas are ultimately accepted and adopted. That includes you.

Technical and/or musical issues aside, the challenge for you is going to be to either: 1) redefine your relationship with these bullies in a way that demands respect, or 2) walk away. Either way, the status quo has broken down, and is no longer viable.

Good luck...

MM

[Stumbo]

If they took the distortion off the guitar(s), I guarantee you that you'll hear fret noise, etc. Maybe some compression would help your situation?

[Bearded Wizard]

I don't know, I play brand new stainless steel strings with heavy distortion and I don't get any technique noise.

1) It's in the technique. When I first picked up the bass I hated my playing for about a year and I spent every minute of the time playing it (which was not very often) trying to figure out how to play complex bass lines without making any unwanted non-note noise. I started with my tone knob backed all the way off with flats and my instructor had me crank the tone full and I switched to rounds so I could hear and improve. That in and of itself requires intensive woodshedding, and I recommend all bassists learn to do that, especially if they want to play with distortion. You shouldn't rely on the crossfire of the mix to drown out bad technique, at least by my reckoning.

2) It's in the gear. If you're playing through an amp with a horn, turn the horn off or even disconnect it. Unless you're playing at being a Marcus Miller clone, you shouldn't need it (in my opinion). Vintage limited bandwidth amplifiers, speaker systems, microphones, etc. will all help eliminate non-musical noise. If you're playing an active bass with EQ, roll off the treble. If your amp has ultra high or bright switches, turn them off. A DI doesn't necessarily do anything to limit bandwidth or sweeten the sound, depending on the DI, if this is a serious studio you're going into they should have a good mic for your rig. Mix it with DI if you have to, or have the engineer low pass filter the DI. If the band wants DI, that Markbass is a good option.

It sounds like your band doesn't want you making noise up in the cymbal frequency ranges, which I don't think is really unreasonable, but a lot of people do that on bass, you're not a bad bass player for it if you do, and it's more of a gear problem than anything I'm sure.

[Downunderwonder]

New strings are zingy, that's a nobrainer. Didn't Jaco Pastorius grab a feed of fried chicken and then play to bed in new strings?

[ibateur]

+1 to "get a recording bassist" and watch his technique. OR sit down with a session artist you know and find out what he does to limit these issues.

In the RUSH documentary, Geddy playing his Fender acoustically, you could hear the fret clicks and slight buzz. Saw the same in Robert Trujillo's recording "sessions" on youtube.

[jmclearnon]

some tips... some similar to stuff posted above

1)check for uneven frets
2)Press your notes down hard
3)Check your bass is setup properly
4)practice chromatic scales a lot, all different patterns all over the instrument starting at low speeds ie 40 bmp and working up. RESTART if there is a buzz note, practise until there are none.

[rust_preacher]

Originally Posted by Stumbo

If they took the distortion off the guitar(s), I guarantee you that you'll hear fret noise, etc. Maybe some compression would help your situation?

+1 on both suggestions.

Guitarists especially can hide their technical inability behind layers of high-gain distortion. Ask them to play the parts on the clean channel of their amp with no distortion boxes in front and record that.

A very slight amount of compression can dramatically clean up the attack on bass. I think you need to ask the sound engineer to add some compression and see how that sounds.

Further, I would recommend to minimize your DISTORTION and only add some OVERDRIVE in your sound. If the guitars are distorted, very often that's enough for any genre of music (I never use distortion on bass, but then, that's me). With too much distortion, the sound just gets mushy and undefined. Also, the fret buzz issues may get amplified that way.

On the setup side, try adjusting your string height just a tad higher. That may clean up your high-fret buzz issues completely. And you need to tell the guys that "rumble," "grind", or "clank" is not "buzz". It could be part of your signature sound.

Finally, if the band is so hell-bent on perfecting the quality of the tracks, surely they have hired a proper PRODUCER to steer the recording and mastering?

Hey, get out there with confidence and do your part, you'll be fine. All the best!

[LuckyPants]

You've all been tremendously helpful. Jake, that post is a godsend and I can't thank you enough for the time you took writing it.

Today is when I have to tell them how I'm feeling and I'm fairly confident I'm not just going to lay down and be made feel like ****. As most of you are saying, I'm as important a part of the band as them and if me standing up for myself pisses them off then at the end of the day, I'm not losing anything other than a band who wants a bassist they can walk all over.

It's been so tremendously calming having a support network like this one, thank you all.

[ibateur]

Rock on man, and please post an update!

[bassbully]

Originally Posted by TC.65

Sounds to me like they are just nitpicking. You won't hear the fret buzz or string noise in the mix. So why does it matter? I've listened to many famous bassist's basslines out of the mix and they all have some kind of noise. Some of them sound pretty horrific outside of the mix. I would definitely talk to them about this.

Agree^ There is always noise and that is what the studio and producer is for. The other players will also have noise so tell them to lightenup. Make sure you bass is setup well and practice the songs.
If you are solid on the tracks you will be fine. Don't freak out go in with a game plan and do it.

When I first went in the studio I had doubt's, worries too. I am just a solid bassist..no flash and I walked in and layed the tracks down. Don't freak if you have to re-track but remember minor flubs can be patched/punched out.

Also on the 6 weeks to improve? Improve what? You said they dig your sound and basslines so take this right to them and say...Improve what? If they can have a practice and tell you great...if not tell them see you in the studio. Live playing is differnet than the studio. Studio stay to the song and play clean...live cut loose and have fun.

Your bandmates are just making you crazy and getting stupid about this. In my band the best players had to retrack quite a few times but me? I did all mine in the first few takes

[9mmMike]

Originally Posted by Landy67

Is this a real studio or someones basement with a recorder? I got invited to record some hammer dulcimer bits for a song. I screwed up in a few places, and we just "Punched in" the right notes by having me replay the bad parts, and the engineer swapped out the parts as I got them right. I had to play the same part three or four times to get it right, but it only took 10 or 20 minutes to get a clean track.

If they like you playing live, I don't see why the studio should be the killer.

I agree. Is this fussy engineer inept?

[derrico1]

It sounds like the session will turn into an overdubbing marathon with your final bass tracks all massively comped. Is the band worried about your ability to ultimately lay down material for a quality comped track, or are they just balking at the potentially hefty studio bill for tracking bass?

If it's the $$, consider tracking bass in the band's project studio. You could OD against rough tracks in a PT system or a PT compatible system. That way there's no clock ticking up a huge bill. When you're done, just fly the bass tracks back into the studio PT sessions.

[Kamuilija]

Hi LuckyPants,

you'll be fine! Just one more thing: you're hiring the sound engineer. That means the band is the engineer's employer. The way I see it, the employer decides what they want from the employee, not the other way around. So don't worry about the engineer's personal preferences! It is they who needs to worry about yours and make it happen.

[phillybass101]

Dude they got someone else. Probably a friend or a family member. For some reason you're out.