Great, another band dilemma

Qvist · #1 04-06-2008, 10:29 AM

Okay I'm 17 years old, never played in any other bands than the on I am in now, and I've known all my bandmates for a very long time (schoolmates). We started out playing together long ago, all very inexperienced, so musically we've all grown up together, bassist (me), guitarist, drummer, and here's the trouble, singer hasn't!!!

It wasn't a problem earlier because we were just basically messing around playing songs we like, but only now the last 6 months we've begun taking it serious with gigs and our own material, and I just get so frustrated that all the instrumental parts of the songs sounds so nice and the singing just make it all collapse! We've told him a thousand times he should put some more feeling in to it, but I'm afraid it isn't working out. I see our singer everyday, he's just across the hallway on the same highschool as I, he's a nice person, he's my friend, but I hate his voice. So please TB, you're my only hope, please give me a great advice here!

Can a person who doesn't sing that well become an average singer by taking lessons, or does it have to be a natural gift when you're a lead singer? Or is it just hopeless with our singer, and do I have to hurt his feelings by sacking him?

Here's an early footage of our band from last year (please know that I've improved ALOT musically since then, and I was about to **** my pants of nervousness!) http://youtube.com/watch?v=zkWO1HmeCcY

heytrid · #2 04-06-2008, 10:35 AM

lessons can help alot if you are after your own style, I think with alot of voice training you would be able to better mimmick someone in a cover.

lets just say I have heard WAY worse. i do get what your saying though since it seems like he is just reading the music off a sheet.. almost like kareoke on a song you do not really know.

other then that I find the rest sounds pretty decent few hiccups here and there but for being 16/17 it is a good foundation to work from

I also find it funny playing a GNR song with the sunburst lespaul

Fnord Explorer · #3 04-06-2008, 10:35 AM

Do you guys all work hard to be better musicians (lessons, exercises, pushing your abilities, practice, etc) and he just doesn't? That seems to be a common thing about young singers, they don't put in nearly as much work as other people (unless they are choral singers) in mastering their "instrument".

If I'm correct in this assumption, I would put it to him to get lessons and put more work into it. You can be tactful and simply say something like "We really want to get this going and we feel that everyone should put in an equal amount of work on their individual levels if they really are serious about it." This kind of softens the feeling that you are attacking him outright. With that on the table, he either has the choice of picking up the slack and putting his nose to the grindstone to get better (it's not just a natural talent, it's a learned skill too) or you can respectfully part ways.

Fnord Explorer · #4 04-06-2008, 10:39 AM

I just watched the video. To me it sounds like he's talking more than singing. He's not awful, so it's not hopeless. I would definitely push for more formal instruction. And some performance lessons!

ysand · #5 04-06-2008, 10:43 AM

It's very good considering the age and the fact that there was only 1 guitar.
As for the singer, i have a similar problem with the singer of one of my 2 bands.
He's a long-time friend along with the rest of the band, but is a lazy guy to have lessons or try to improve, so while all the others are keeping up really good, he's the weakest link.

ps. That's why i got a second band

Joe Nerve · #6 04-06-2008, 10:51 AM

The guy is singing in key, looks good, and has a good voice. 3 incredibly important components.

Seems he's only lacking some balls, style, and confidence. I believe that can be developed, but not by the rest of the band making him think he sucks, or he's not keeping up with you guys. I think if you guys pump him up a bit, give him some inspiration, try to help him along and work it as a team you might be happy you held onto him.

On the other hand if he simply isn't into it and would rather be doing something other than performing and singing, then ya may wanna just let him go.

PS. For covers he may NOT be the guy if you want someone to sound just like the records. If you're doing originals I think you need to work in his range and write stuff that he could make sound awesome. I believe he has the capabilities and potential.

PSPS. Realize too that the fact that you are friends and all get along holds a lot of weight. Singers (especially) can be a tempermantal bunch of characters, and along with a new singer may come a whole bunch of other unexpected problems and drama.

roberthelpus · #7 04-06-2008, 11:44 AM

Record the group and have him listen to it. Hopefully he will hear what he is lacking.

anderbass · #8 04-06-2008, 11:53 AM

Hey, you, the drummer and that guitarist are pretty dam good! The first thing I noticed is your vocalist seems to be singing an octave below what Axel did. I'm assuming he might be stuck singing all his parts an octave to low. This may be his biggest issue and lessons might just help his range. He does seem to be on key most of the time, thats definitely a good start and a sign of some natural talent. I completely agree that he's currently your bands weakest link and needs to find some way to improve soon or be replaced.

Valerus · #9 04-06-2008, 12:45 PM

Not bad, sir! Just get this problem sorted out and you'll have a good start.

**Rune Bivrin** · #10 04-06-2008, 01:42 PM

Way back a band I was in had pretty much the same problem with a female singer. The solution turned out to be somewhat un-orthodox: We turned her volume down. She was cagey because she felt she was too loud, and as aresult sang too defensively.

I don't know if that's a solution in your case, but the recording sounds as if he is quite loud in the mix, so it may be part of it.

Qvist · #11 04-06-2008, 02:06 PM

Thanks for all the great tips you all, and thank you very much for the kind words! We've been improving alot since then, so it really means alot

I think we gotta have a band meeting and do like Fnord Explorer said, that we all are doing our best to improve and as an equal band member he should aswell. After all your comments about him being in the right key most of time, I kinda feel a little lucky that we have him instead of some tone-deaf moron, but we're gonna try to give him a good set of balls and some ****ING rock'n'roll attitude !

I'll make sure to post some of our recordings we're to do soon (own material), I'd love to hear what you all think of it

ysand · #12 04-06-2008, 02:31 PM

You could also just give him the link to this topic

Qvist · #13 04-06-2008, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ysand

You could also just give him the link to this topic

Dude, if he ever saw this topic he'd cut my balls off and use them himself!!

magnusdeus123 · #14 04-07-2008, 06:17 AM

Dude .

Your singer seems to have a pretty ok voice for what I consider your age group . The only thing is , he really needs to keep it real . He's trying to imitate Rose and wagging his tongue around a lot to sound fuller , but he'd better off if he tried to sound like himself rather than imitating . By himself I dont think he has THAT bad of a voice .

Spinal Tapper · #15 04-07-2008, 01:07 PM

Yea, stick with him - especially if you're friends. He's not that bad, maybe try writing some originals?

jomahu · #16 04-07-2008, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spinal Tapper

Yea, stick with him - especially if you're friends. He's not that bad, maybe try writing some originals?

+1 y'all sound real good in the video, and yes, the singer doesn't sound the greatest. but heck, it's axl rose. i don't think anyone can imitate him. thank jeebus

point being, writing original songs means y'all can write to suit your personal styles (including the singer), plus the singer gets to test his own limitations. who knows maybe then he'll come around and get some lessons...

as far as nonchalant singers, i refer you to the band Cake (who i love!).

walknbluez · #17 04-07-2008, 06:06 PM

I think it sounded pretty good. His voice is kinda like the guy from Green Day, a little?

**butchblack** · #18 04-07-2008, 08:32 PM

I agree with a lot of the posters, he doesn't have a bad voice and he's singing on key. Two big pluses. It does seem that it's not the right key for him or he's singing an octave too low and that he's a bit low key on stage. The more you play to an audience the easier it gets (for most) so that may improve. Voice lessons from a good teacher would be invaluable.

I remember the first performance I did. I was taking an Ensemble at a local music school. We all were noobies, so we were all s******* bricks. The ensemble leader was very loose about the whole thing, which drove us crazy. Looking back, it was no big deal, I'm comfortable playing to crowds now. The best advice I can give is to take your music seriously, but NEVER take yourself too seriously.

To get back to you question. If the music you're doing is the type of music he wants to sing, and he's willing to put the effort into improving. and he fits into the band's personality, give him some time he may develop. However, not everyone who can sing will make a good lead singer. Keep that in the back of your mind if the improvements don't happen.

My 2¢

ric1312 · #19 04-07-2008, 08:52 PM

Sounds like what happened to me when I was a teen.

I was the singer in my first band. We started when we were fifteen. Band lasted about 3 years. First year no one cared that I sucked really bad at singing, because they sucked really bad too.

As we played everyone progressed. Me, the singer very slowly, because I didn't have the dough for vocal lessons, and I was in no way a natural singer.
By, the last year of the band my voice was a source of amusement to them. which pissed me off. Eventually they stopped playing with me without telling me I was out.

But, I wanted to sing better, really bad. I loved singing even though I knew I wasn't great at it. Being a little older and having a job I found some good vocal coaches and improved my voice, to the point that most people considered me a really good singer. This enabled me to move on to even better bands.

My first band never found a good singer and is now kicking themselves for treating me like ****, because now that they are older and more experienced they know just how hard it is to find someone who can really sing well, and wants to play rock/metal.

My point is, if your singer want's to improve, he can and don't be a dick to him. I hate to sound like a singer with an attitude but it is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH easier to get good on guitar, bass and drums than it is to learn to sing well if you didn't start out as a naturally good singer. I can go look through ads and put together a whole band. Guaranteed I can find a good guitarist,bass player and drummer inside of a month, all skilled enough to learn a 2 hour set and be ready go inside of two months if not sooner..... try finding a good singer that can do that, it's like finding a needle in a haystack.

Here are some things to ask him:

does he like to sing and want to improve, or does he just care about playing rockstar and being in a band.

Does he practice his singing when not at band practice. Even without a coach if he practices every day at home he will improve a lot quicker.

Is he willing to take some lessons and learn about voice just like a guitar player would do to master his instrument.

Qvist · #20 04-08-2008, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by butchblack

I agree with a lot of the posters, he doesn't have a bad voice and he's singing on key. Two big pluses. It does seem that it's not the right key for him or he's singing an octave too low and that he's a bit low key on stage. The more you play to an audience the easier it gets (for most) so that may improve. Voice lessons from a good teacher would be invaluable.

I remember the first performance I did. I was taking an Ensemble at a local music school. We all were noobies, so we were all s******* bricks. The ensemble leader was very loose about the whole thing, which drove us crazy. Looking back, it was no big deal, I'm comfortable playing to crowds now. The best advice I can give is to take your music seriously, but NEVER take yourself too seriously.

To get back to you question. If the music you're doing is the type of music he wants to sing, and he's willing to put the effort into improving. and he fits into the band's personality, give him some time he may develop. However, not everyone who can sing will make a good lead singer. Keep that in the back of your mind if the improvements don't happen.

My 2¢

thanks for the advise, and wise words man!! those I will indeed remember!

ric1312, it's nice to see this whole thing from a singers perspective, I haven't thought of that before. I will definately not treat him like crap, it sounds really unfair what your old bandmates did to you. We're gonna have a bandmeeting Tuesday, where I know I'll ask him about all this, so I really hope he's willing to take some lessons and go further with it.

Please keep the posts coming, it's very fascinating to read