Help! Need your opinions please?!? Singer issue...

**TXLawDawg** · #1 09-10-2009, 09:53 PM

I'll try to keep this short and to the point but I'd really like some opinions from other folks that have been gigging awhile and know what is good business practice and what is not.

Our band recently won the 1st round of a local Battle of the Bands last Friday. One of the competing bands had a saxophone player that our singer apparently took a liking to. Whilst sending a message today through our myspace account, I stumble upon a message that was sent to that band from our band account from the singer. It basically said that we enjoyed playing with them (despite us all thinking that they were horrible) and that the singer enjoyed their music. He then put that he was contacting them so he could get in touch with their sax player and see if he would interested in playing with us....my jaw hit the floor.

Here's my problem, considering that we don't know these guys but we had just beat them in a battle, this didn't appear to be the most ethical thing that could have done. It struck me as saying, "We beat y'all, now how about your sax player come play with us?" Not to mention that this wasn't cleared with any of our band nor even discussed as being an option. Later our singer said he did it just to see if the guy would want to "jam" sometime but I found out he had already talked to another band member about setting up a practice so this guy could play a show with us.

I said something to the singer about this not being that professional of a thing to do and that it definitely had the possibility of shining a bad light on our band. Well, in his typical fashion, he got his lil' feelings hurt. I pointed out that they could be cool with it or that they could be completely offended by the email and that he had to remember that his actions reflected on the entire band. I also pointed out that all band business is approved by band majority and that he had not cleared any of this through anyone!

Am I in the wrong here? Is this really not a big deal? I just don't see how he can have it in his mind that this was not potentially crossing a line that you shouldn't cross considering we had just beat these guys at a battle.

I try putting myself in others shoes before I act, and doing so in this situation, I could see being completely offended by such a proposition.

Have I lost it? Am I over-reacting?

xgator4u · #2 09-10-2009, 10:04 PM

NO you are NOT wrong, The singtard was. That was extremely bad form, in all aspects. Battle is not the issue, and who won or lost. What is an issue here is the singtard mad this decision on his OWN, then used an e-mail account NOT his own to contact the sax player. THEN he lied to you about his intentions. But worst of all is using the band without prior approval to approach, entice, and coerce a player away from another band.= BAD FORM
If you decide to put up with this, he will not stop there, and will see himself as the " MAN" in charge. Set it straight immediately. and good luck, keep us posted.

billhilly66 · #3 09-10-2009, 10:34 PM

A lot of times the singer ends up being the man. What's selling your band?

The singer in most gigs I've had over the years had final veto. No big deal, that's what it takes to keep gigging and I like to play Machiavelli behind the scene anyway. Would that sax player make a nice addition to your band?

bigntasty · #4 09-10-2009, 10:46 PM

Your band chose "majority vote" for a reason. Your singer is out of line with the band's policy, and the band should sit down with him, point this out, and get the issue straightened out.

And even if the band allowed such contacts, he could have done it in a way that was much more professional than that...

**TXLawDawg** · #5 09-10-2009, 10:52 PM

Thanks for the replies fellas...

I'll agree the singer is normally the voice of the band...at least on stage. In our scenerio he does not have final veto power. We allow all decisions to be made by band majority...it's been that way for years. He doesn't become involved in the day-to-day operations that often but when he does, he does something stupid like this. We normally allow it and just go on about our way as he wears his feelings on his shoulders. As far as the sax player being a good addition, no. At the battle we had commented on how we could toy around with a sax player but not this guy...the rest of us that heard them weren't impressed with his abilities at all.

The way I looked at it was the singer overstepped his bounds and needed to be made aware of it. He's done it before...but when we check him on ANYTHING...ANYTHING...he gets swole up and pouts. He sent me a text saying he's going to give back the merch he came by and got today and leave the "business" up to the rest of us. Said he'll just show up and play from now on. Then he went on how bands are supposed to be fun and we have lost that element on and off stage. Childish? Yep!

I've been doing this for many years now and I don't think that he realizes that you run a band the way you run a business. Shows are fun as long as all the business is taken care of...he rarely sees or cares to involve himself in that aspect. This is coming from the guy that just today, bragged about how much promoting he did for us today....by what you ask? Adding friends on myspace! WOW! Get real fella!

**TXLawDawg** · #6 09-10-2009, 10:58 PM

Btw...

the other band replied and did not appear to be offended which is good. Do I reply to them and apologize or do I just let it die now? I don't want these guys to think that this is the way we conduct ourselves or our business.

xgator4u · #7 09-10-2009, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXLawDawg

Btw...

the other band replied and did not appear to be offended which is good. Do I reply to them and apologize or do I just let it die now? I don't want these guys to think that this is the way we conduct ourselves or our business.

IMO apologize, then either fire that singtard, or at least kick his candy @$$. password protect ALL band accounts and deny him access. Hurts his feelings TOUGH SH^T. That kind of clown will cause more problems than he is worth.

bassbully · #8 09-10-2009, 11:22 PM

Let it die.The singer was way out of line IMO. A band at least a good one and the weekend warrior type that most of us are needs to be a team. Most of us do this around our families and work etc for little money. It might be different if you are in a fulltime band for your income. He needed to ask the band if this was a good idea and then follow thru if you all agreed. If i were you i would discuss it as a band and hopefully let it die...he might pout but he will get over it. Make sure everything that effects the band is run thru the band first. The singer is just that ...the singer and another member, nothing more or less.

Greevus · #9 09-10-2009, 11:24 PM

I've always wanted to see a real BATTLE of the bands. Like Metallica and Megadeth fighting with swords or tasers. Saxophones are just so weak and like 1950s.

**TXLawDawg** · #10 09-10-2009, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greevus

I've always wanted to see a real BATTLE of the bands. Like Metallica and Megadeth fighting with swords or tasers. Saxophones are just so weak and like 1950s.

LOL! I'll remember that for the finals

NKUSigEp · #11 09-10-2009, 11:42 PM

Being a so-called band leader myself, I would clear all invitations to prospective members with all current members before extending the invitation. Unless it seems like it is in everyone's best interests and that I had no doubts about anything; and also in the instance that a member was in the process of being replaced.

Your singer was definitely out of line. If he had cleared it with 1 or more other band members then fine, at least someone was aware but next time include you in on the deal too. Most bands today just don't utilize sax like they used to.

PS...be weary of battles of the bands - 100% popularity contest based on how many tickets you sell. Very rarely does the best band ever win.

PPS...don't EVER do anything to damage a singer's fragile ego! They are the voice of the band and more or less gives them the right to be princess'. Now, if he's not that good of a singer and can be replaced, have at it! LOL

MysticMichael · #12 09-10-2009, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXLawDawg

Btw...

the other band replied and did not appear to be offended which is good. Do I reply to them and apologize or do I just let it die now? I don't want these guys to think that this is the way we conduct ourselves or our business.

I wouldn't leave it open-ended. Keep it brief, but explain that the communication from your band to theirs was unauthorized, and that it won't happen again. Then let it go...

BTW, on the main issue here, can there still be even the slightest shred of doubt left in your mind that it's high time to lay down the law to Mr. Singer? Or are you still plodding along in denial, telling yourself that things will start getting better soon?

Considering that he's already been allowed to behave like a spoiled child for awhile now, you and your bandmates must accept part of the responsibility for his conduct - as you've seen ample red flags already (his using emotional blackmail, being passive-aggressive, acting secretly and deceitfully, etc.) but you have allowed it to continue anyway. So to an extent, you deserve what you get...

You're correct in managing your band like a business. So consider that in this case you've mismanaged it. Set Mr. Singer straight - right now. And start insisting upon a uniform standard of professional conduct - from everybody - effective immediately. OK?

MM

MysticMichael · #13 09-11-2009, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NKUSigEp

PPS...don't EVER do anything to damage a singer's fragile ego! They are the voice of the band and more or less gives them the right to be princess'.

Nonsense. This is precisely the kind of indulgent attitude that encourages such prima donna behavior in the first place...

It's not a question of a singer's "fragile ego", "special needs", or any other such rubbish. It's a question of either conducting oneself as a professional - or like a spoiled child. Period.

MM

**TXLawDawg** · #14 09-11-2009, 12:06 AM

Thanks again for the replies!

On the BOTB issue...we're well aware of it being a hyped up popularity contest. The band that came in second was horrible but a college band nonetheless that brought gobs of people. It's irritating but that's the way it is and we knew that's what we'd be dealing with.

MM -

I agree with you 100%! I do feel as if it is my fault that I allowed him to gradually get to this point. Make no mistake though, he's been checked in the past, gotten mad, and we worked it out. It's a shame we have to tiptoe around him but we'll set that straight...it's the only plausable solution for us to move forward and not have the same problems arise later.

I would prefer to not have to play the role of "daddy" in this band. I'm the eldest of the band and we all went to school together and have known each other for years. Puts me in a predicament when having to say something to someone but, someone has to do it, right? That's why we do the majority thing...that way one person doesn't always get their say-so or someone doesn't always feel as though their idea is rejected.

Thanks again for the replies!

NKUSigEp · #15 09-11-2009, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticMichael

It's not a question of a singer's "fragile ego", "special needs", or any other such rubbish. It's a question of either conducting oneself as a professional - or like a spoiled child. Period.

MM

Sure it is! Professional-shmoshmessional! They are the best thing since sliced bread! God's gift to groupies! Without singers, music would just be...music?

BTW...is that Salvador Dali in your avatar?

MysticMichael · #16 09-11-2009, 12:22 AM

I personally feel that most bands work much better as a benevolent dictatorship - with a single leader who has the right of final decisions on all matters. Until - and only until - a band has reached a point of sufficient, proven collective maturity where decisions can consistently be made wisely, expeditiously and for the good of the band as a whole, it should probably remain as a benevolent dictatorship.

But that's just me. I've become jaded and cynical...

MM

MysticMichael · #17 09-11-2009, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NKUSigEp

BTW...is that Salvador Dali in your avatar?

Yep. Pretty swish, isn't he?

MM

**TXLawDawg** · #18 09-11-2009, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticMichael

I personally feel that most bands work much better as a benevolent dictatorship - with a single leader who has the right of final decisions on all matters. Until - and only until - a band has reached a point of sufficient, proven collective maturity where decisions can consistently be made wisely, expeditiously and for the good of the band as a whole, it should probably remain as a benevolent dictatorship.

But that's just me. I've become jaded and cynical...

MM

And I'm sure that'll happen the day I win the lottery

Flying pigs come to mind as well

**TXLawDawg** · #19 09-11-2009, 10:37 AM

Well, I sent a brief message to the other band apologizing for the contact and explained to them that we did not conduct our business that way nor had we authorized anyone to contact them. All is well for now...we'll see...

denhou1974 · #20 09-14-2009, 10:53 AM

IMO it's not something to make a big deal about. Have the Sax player come out for a practice. If he's good and you like him then have him do some gigs with the band. If not, let him go. Regardless of what your singer did the decision still belongs to the entire band, right?

As for your singer trying to "entice" the sax player away from his band - the Sax player is his own man and can make his own decisions. I wouldn't care what the other band thinks about this.