Help needed - Private Party Gigs

[62Jazzbass]

OK, new territory for me and my band.

A couple (middle aged professionals) saw us at a local club, chatted with our guitar player for a bit and left with a card.

They emailed us a few days later asking if we would do a low key private party, and asked what we charge. I responded by saying:

“We typically get $XXX (for 3 sets – we supply PA and lights), but it depends on the requirements (location, load in/load out times, duration of show, etc.).”

I implied wiggle room in either direction. I also said “let me know if this is within your budget”……

I don’t know what to make of the response. In it, they described where we would play, the duration (three hours) and so on, but never mentioned the $$$. They finished by asking if we’d be interested in doing it.

So I can’t decide…..

Are they looking to haggle, or should I assume the price I quoted is acceptable (knowing I need to get it in writing regardless).

How do I seal the deal, while making sure I don’t piss them off if they are looking to negotiate?

Should I stop thinking about it, assume they are ok with the $$ (and yes, I think we are worth it), and proceed with getting a commitment on it in a polite and professional manner?

[braydenwise]

One idea would be to get a sample contract, email it to them with your price, and see about setting up some face time to get it signed by both parties. This way, you're putting forth your price, and if you need to wiggle, you'll be able to do so. If they sign the contract at your indicated price, then no problems. If you wiggle, try and do it by email so you have a clean copy of your contract when you go to sign -- but naturally, don't wiggle too much. You're worth a certain amount of $$$. Don't gyp yourself.

If at all possible, after signing, make a copy of the contract to give to the employer so that they've got something to refer to.

Google is your friend. Look up "sample band contract" and shazam, you'll have something to work from. The other option is to try and get your hands on an AFM contract from your local area and use the verbiage there to get you through.

One last tip - you might want to collect a deposit up-front. I usually go with 50%, refundable up to x day(s) prior to the gig. That way, if they bail, you and your band still have something to show for it.

[jtc_hunter]

It sounds to me like they are in agreement w/ your price. But the contract thing is the way to go.

[Crazyeelboy]

This thread reflects a continual problem many musicians have in dealing with business matters. You gotta be direct - just drop them an email response with your specific concern about whether they agreed the price and then outline the payment terms - deposit, payment up front, payment when you get there - etc.

There is nothing wrong about being clear.

The contract is a good idea, but in some informal contexts (like playing for private parties) you can achieve the same result through an exchange of specific emails (that is likely to create a contractual obligation under law as well) - which you seem to have done. I would, however, use contracts every time for gigs with professional venues.

[Richland123]

Whenever I book private parties, I use a written contract unless I personally know the people. A written contract spells out the details, compensation, and terms of the agreement. You may also request a deposit if you really don't know these people. A written and signed contract also provides a level of comfort and assurance that the band will perform and that the purchaser will abide by the terms.

I write contracts, book the gigs, run all of the band business and legal issues, and have an M.B.A.; so, it is different for me than most musicians. I understand the uncertainty when dealing with the business side of being in a band but it is the evil necessity in order to play and cover yourselves.

Also, never think that the band is automatically included for free food and drinks at a private party, banquet, wedding, etc. This has to be put into a contract as well.

Lastly, never assume anything. You have to be straight forward and have an agreement that all parties are happy with. Even if you get a verbal agreement, document everything including who agreed, date, day and time of show, amount, etc.

[jaywa]

If it's an outdoor event, don't forget to specify what happens in the event of bad weather. If you have to call the gig early because of rain, you want to make sure you'll still get paid the full rate, or at least a portion of it.

The last thing you want is spend an hour and a half setting up, play 30 minutes, get rained out and then get stiffed on the pay cause "you guys didn't do anything". This happened to a band I know... not fun.

[62Start]

1) Put it in writing,
2) Get a 50% deposit (non-refundable unless cancelled at least 14 days in advance),
3) get close in parking reserved (expect that you will need everything).
4) make it clear as to availability of food and beverages (remember the Blues Brothers),
5) Entertain and have fun - welcome sit ins.

I hire a band a couple of times a year myself for parties at my home and most groups want to come back for nothing.

I don't like direct cords on anything outdoors - I have been shocked too many times. If you're not fully wireless capable leave the outdoor stuff to someone else.

By the way, I've been a professional player, band leader and a professional manager since 1962.

[jaywa]

2) Get a 50% deposit (non-refundable unless cancelled at least 14 days in advance)

That 50% deposit is good insurance if you're doing an outdoor event and you have to call it early because of weather. Then at least you've covered your travel and set-up/tear-down time even if you and the client forego the other 50%.

The only time it would be tricky is if you got up to the day of the event and it's pouring rain and everyone agrees to call the gig before the band leaves for the gig. Well, that's a cancellaton in less than 14 days so by contract the client loses the deposit, but the band really can't claim they're still entitled to that money if they're not even going to be driving to the venue, can they?

BTW around these parts anyway a 50% deposit is unheard of. It's more like 10%... maybe 20 if you're really lucky.

[Allen_VA]

Originally Posted by jaywa

That 50% deposit is good insurance if you're doing an outdoor event and you have to call it early because of weather. Then at least you've covered your travel and set-up/tear-down time even if you and the client forego the other 50%.

The only time it would be tricky is if you got up to the day of the event and it's pouring rain and everyone agrees to call the gig before the band leaves for the gig. Well, that's a cancellaton in less than 14 days so by contract the client loses the deposit, but the band really can't claim they're still entitled to that money if they're not even going to be driving to the venue, can they?

There's a band local to our area that has a lot of conditions for playing...

"The Band's" compensation is in no way affected by inclement weather. "The Band" require a 70% deposit of total contracted amount for any outdoor event. Cancellation of event due to weather forfeits deposit. Cancellation of event after departure of crew or musicians in route to the event, forfeits total amount of contract.

"The Band" equipment will be set up once......in the case the event is moved indoors, the artists are not liable to reset up indoors. Such a move will cost a minimum of $ 800.00.

Artists require protection from the elements; Sun, wind and rain. "The Band" require the stage as well as the front of house Equipment covered by tent, Hard roof, Etc.

In the event of cold weather, Purchaser will supply Kerosene forced air heaters sufficient enough to maintain stage temperature above 65 degrees. "The Band" reserve the right, in good faith, to stop or cancel said performance should the weather pose a potential danger to the artists, audience, or crew. Every effort will be made to continue the performance; however, safety is paramount in all decisions.

Outdoor events with out fixed , permanent restroom facilities for the public and Port-a-johns are used.
"The Band" require a Port-a-john back stage or within a close proximity by the stage for band, crew and band guest only. Due to limited time during breaks, It is for the Bands convenience and not to be used by the general public.

Decibel Level:
"The Band" performs at 100 - 115 db, depending on venue and crowd size. Sound technician for "The Band" has absolute control and sole right to decide what level, within noise ordinance by law, is best suited for the venue .

These guys are good, and they play a lot of shows in the area. If venues are accepting these terms, it seems hard to believe they're unrealistic expectations.

[jaywa]

Allen - sounds like a sweet gig. That "re-set fee" alone is more than a lot of the bands around here make for a full 4-hour gig.

Would this perchance be your band?

[Richland123]

I book my band for many outdoor gigs and have about 20 this year. I have very stringent stipulations in the contracts regarding inclement weather and have had to have venues honor those requirements in the past. The requirements may vary but extremely slightly so that we always receive either full pay or at least 2/3. If I have never worked with a venue before or do not know their reputation, I always require a substantial non-refundable deposit. If the venue is a place we have worked in the past or is a reputable venue that is trustworthy, I will waive the deposit but know we will receive full payment even if our show is cut short due to circumstances beyond our control. By waiving the deposit, this usually guarantees us annual return engagements since my band is very well known in the region for providing a professional and cost effective performance for many private functions, festivals, concerts, etc.

[bassman314]

Originally Posted by jaywa

That 50% deposit is good insurance if you're doing an outdoor event and you have to call it early because of weather. Then at least you've covered your travel and set-up/tear-down time even if you and the client forego the other 50%.

The only time it would be tricky is if you got up to the day of the event and it's pouring rain and everyone agrees to call the gig before the band leaves for the gig. Well, that's a cancellaton in less than 14 days so by contract the client loses the deposit, but the band really can't claim they're still entitled to that money if they're not even going to be driving to the venue, can they?

BTW around these parts anyway a 50% deposit is unheard of. It's more like 10%... maybe 20 if you're really lucky.

It's all about opportunity costs. You book a gig for a certain day. This means that you (and the rest of the band) are precluded from participating in another gig, event job, etc, for the time period of the gig. If that gig were to fall through,. it becomes difficult to find a new gig, especially the closer you are to the original event.

The percentage of the deposit is all dependent on the area as well as the popularity of your band. A crappy band in your area may not even be able to request a deposit, however the band in Allen's area demands (and gets) 70% of the cash up front.

In my Jazz trio, we demand most of our payment up front, and then installments over the course of the evening... Then again, we're usually paid with a bottle of wine (decent stuff, too) that gets put right into the gig bag, and then free drinks and food throughout the evening.

Ok not really *L* we play art shows/house parties for our drummer's wife (an artist) and they usually buy me and the piano player a bottle of wine or scotch as a thank you gift.

[steveksux]

Private parties generally pay much more than local clubs. Possible you should have said your price was $XXXX rather than $XXX, especially if its a corporate gig... Wedding type gigs may or may not quite make it into the $XXXX range
Though I suppose it varies widely depending on where you are located.

Randy

[rcarraher]

Originally Posted by 62Jazzbass

OK, new territory for me and my band.

A couple (middle aged professionals) saw us at a local club, chatted with our guitar player for a bit and left with a card.

They emailed us a few days later asking if we would do a low key private party, and asked what we charge. I responded by saying:

“We typically get $XXX (for 3 sets – we supply PA and lights), but it depends on the requirements (location, load in/load out times, duration of show, etc.).”

I implied wiggle room in either direction. I also said “let me know if this is within your budget”……

I don’t know what to make of the response. In it, they described where we would play, the duration (three hours) and so on, but never mentioned the $$$. They finished by asking if we’d be interested in doing it.

So I can’t decide…..

Are they looking to haggle, or should I assume the price I quoted is acceptable (knowing I need to get it in writing regardless).

How do I seal the deal, while making sure I don’t piss them off if they are looking to negotiate?

Should I stop thinking about it, assume they are ok with the $$ (and yes, I think we are worth it), and proceed with getting a commitment on it in a polite and professional manner?

Like any good salesman, "assume the close". Tell them you are fine with there conditions and ask for a deposit with the remaining ($xxx) do at the start of the gig. Since they didn't respond with a counter offer, assume they are excepting your bid.

[jaywa]

Originally Posted by steveksux

Private parties generally pay much more than local clubs. Possible you should have said your price was $XXXX rather than $XXX, especially if its a corporate gig... Wedding type gigs may or may not quite make it into the $XXXX range
Though I suppose it varies widely depending on where you are located.

Randy

Yeah that's been a point of contention within my band. I've always assumed we should be getting much more $$ for a private gig than a bar show, yet our singer (who handles the bookings) usually doesn't quote more than about $100 higher for a private party vs a bar. I think we are way underselling ourselves on private gigs but the point is kind of moot right now cause not many of those events are happening around here with the current economy and all.

[JmJ]

Originally Posted by jaywa

The only time it would be tricky is if you got up to the day of the event and it's pouring rain and everyone agrees to call the gig before the band leaves for the gig. Well, that's a cancellaton in less than 14 days so by contract the client loses the deposit, but the band really can't claim they're still entitled to that money if they're not even going to be driving to the venue, can they?

I don't see why not. You've saved the day for them, It's not like you can go out & get another gig on one days notice.

[peterpalmieri]

Originally Posted by 62Start

1)
......................

I don't like direct cords on anything outdoors - I have been shocked too many times. If you're not fully wireless capable leave the outdoor stuff to someone else.

By the way, I've been a professional player, band leader and a professional manager since 1962.

Could you expand on why you have a larger concern with being shocked when playing outdoors?

[sirpug]

Originally Posted by rcarraher

Like any good salesman, "assume the close". Tell them you are fine with there conditions and ask for a deposit with the remaining ($xxx) do at the start of the gig. Since they didn't respond with a counter offer, assume they are excepting your bid.

I disagree because the OP dosen't appear to be to the closing stage yet. He only sent a base price which he said would be depending on conditions that would alter said base price. They then responded with answers the alterable conditions. It's like when I call a service person and they say that our base price for a service is $X but they have to have the official details before they can give me a firm estimate or bid on the job. I think your next step is to get with your mates, go over the conditions and requirements, and then send them an official quote/bid on the "job". You need to quote them a price (whatever you and your band determines as an acceptable price) for their specific gig. This is when the haggling begins. You, as the service provider, need to give them a starting point for the negotiations.

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by 62Jazzbass

OK, new territory for me and my band.

A couple (middle aged professionals) saw us at a local club, chatted with our guitar player for a bit and left with a card.

They emailed us a few days later asking if we would do a low key private party, and asked what we charge. I responded by saying:

“We typically get $XXX (for 3 sets – we supply PA and lights), but it depends on the requirements (location, load in/load out times, duration of show, etc.).”

I implied wiggle room in either direction. I also said “let me know if this is within your budget”……

I don’t know what to make of the response. In it, they described where we would play, the duration (three hours) and so on, but never mentioned the $$$. They finished by asking if we’d be interested in doing it.

So I can’t decide…..

Are they looking to haggle, or should I assume the price I quoted is acceptable (knowing I need to get it in writing regardless).

How do I seal the deal, while making sure I don’t piss them off if they are looking to negotiate?

Should I stop thinking about it, assume they are ok with the $$ (and yes, I think we are worth it), and proceed with getting a commitment on it in a polite and professional manner?

if they did not specify the dollar amount the next email you send should include a request for a deposit that is written out based on a % of the amount,for cancellation,showing up, playing,acts of god............spelled that way there is no room for argument should there be a dispute

[Jeb]

Originally Posted by Allen_VA

There's a band local to our area that has a lot of conditions for playing...

"The Band's" compensation is in no way affected by inclement weather. "The Band" require a 70% deposit of total contracted amount for any outdoor event. Cancellation of event due to weather forfeits deposit. Cancellation of event after departure of crew or musicians in route to the event, forfeits total amount of contract.

"The Band" equipment will be set up once......in the case the event is moved indoors, the artists are not liable to reset up indoors. Such a move will cost a minimum of $ 800.00.

Artists require protection from the elements; Sun, wind and rain. "The Band" require the stage as well as the front of house Equipment covered by tent, Hard roof, Etc.

In the event of cold weather, Purchaser will supply Kerosene forced air heaters sufficient enough to maintain stage temperature above 65 degrees. "The Band" reserve the right, in good faith, to stop or cancel said performance should the weather pose a potential danger to the artists, audience, or crew. Every effort will be made to continue the performance; however, safety is paramount in all decisions.

Outdoor events with out fixed , permanent restroom facilities for the public and Port-a-johns are used.
"The Band" require a Port-a-john back stage or within a close proximity by the stage for band, crew and band guest only. Due to limited time during breaks, It is for the Bands convenience and not to be used by the general public.

Decibel Level:
"The Band" performs at 100 - 115 db, depending on venue and crowd size. Sound technician for "The Band" has absolute control and sole right to decide what level, within noise ordinance by law, is best suited for the venue .

These guys are good, and they play a lot of shows in the area. If venues are accepting these terms, it seems hard to believe they're unrealistic expectations.

Good stuff Allen, thanks for posting that.