Horrible Lead Guitarists - Page 3

Nashrakh · #41 01-22-2013, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alaskaleftybass

There are people who reach a certain level, and they don't even realize they've peaked out, they're content with the skill level they play at.

I think that raises an interesting point, but I'm not sure I agree with the conclusion.

The question is this, is there something like a peak with no way of improvement? And more importantly, how can you tell when you peaked if you can tell at all?

I think there's always room for improving even if it's just a tiny bit - but that some cannot tell whether they play any good or not, that I have seen more often than I'd have liked. But I think it poses a bit of a dilemma if you can't tell yourself.

I think we all know the phenomenon of our first self-recording and suddenly all the errors we weren't aware of stick out like a sore thumb while little details that may have tortured us for a good while are suddenly inaudible. And sometimes we discover something cool about our playing and decide to improve on that. At least that was my experience. But the thing is, we heard that there was something going wrong. When comes the point at which we don't hear it?

I'm no believer in the 'either you have it or you don't' dichotomy often posed when it comes to groove issues and the likes, but this self-awareness thing kind of bugs me since I guess the implications of not being aware of one's peak clashes with our general desire to improve...

Downunderwonder · #42 01-22-2013, 02:45 AM

So very German. You are quite correct about the ugly remembrance of my first recording. In the case of the OP they probably haven't recorded anything at all.

Musicians recognise that continuous improvement is the only way to live. He who stops improving is not long for the grave. Anyone that hits a "level" isn't a musician in my book.

If I recorded my gigs I would probably cringe, yet we get paid well. Such is life. Practice more.

ibateur · #43 01-22-2013, 03:34 AM

I would personally suggest that you and the drummer work on your parts, and create a recording as a backing track. If you can do scratch rhythm on it, would be better. Then, have a band meeting where the guitar players try to play something into those backing tracks. You can do this on a home recorder BR80 or something

Now. I haven't listened to whether you and the drummer actually can play well together, but let's see.

**Ric5** · #44 01-22-2013, 09:39 AM

There are 2 things that make a good musician ...

1 - natural talent
2 - hard work

To be good you need both. Someone with natural ability who puts in 10,000 hours will be a good musician.

So your band kinda sucks.

Do they lack natural ability or do they need to work harder or a little of both???

Also some people need lessons to become good and some get good by being self taught.

lavaxtris · #45 01-22-2013, 12:49 PM

before you guys spew out more nonsense about the "whole band" or that we haven't recorded before or whatever, let me give you some background.

yes, we have recorded before. full band live recordings about two years ago with our old drummer. the band was originally formed by the best musicians in our high school. there was a break where our old drummer left for college and we didnt get to do anything. our new drummer has currently been with us for 3-4 months.

during the break, I was in a horrible sounding ska band for a good while. I was the best and oldest musician in that band at the time. they decided to kick me out because I was trying to get the horn players to play in tune. to this day, they have out of tune horns.

after that, I decided to improve myself to spite them. I learned scales, improv, etc. anything. I believe this formed a rift between the level of talent I had and the level of talent musicians in my band had.

I started this post as a way to figure out what to do with the lead guitar, not the vocals. the lead guitarist has bad timing, the rest do not. the rhythm player cannot solo worth of crap, but thats not his job anyway.

lavaxtris · #46 01-22-2013, 01:14 PM

and with that, here is another non-live recording we did 2 years ago with our old drummer:

https://soundcloud.com/joe-studer/th...k-again-stereo

DiabolusInMusic · #47 01-22-2013, 01:29 PM

I don't mean to be rude, but I stand by my comment the whole band could use timing work. I suggest you listen to the drums and their fills in the song you just linked a little closer. The band does not come across as tight.

You cannot play great lead guitar without being able to play great rhythm guitar, solos rely on good phrasing. That is why I say you must work on that before worrying about getting him better at solos. You mentioned he already knows the theory behind it anyways, really all the needs improvement is his delivery, something great timing will surely improve.

If you like the singer that is fine, it is your band not ours, there is room for improvement is all we are trying to say.

As others have said you cannot make them improve unless they want to, if you try to push them they will merely resent you.

ibateur · #48 01-22-2013, 01:31 PM

Click. Track. Practice.

Tempo feels inconsistent. The first lead is a bit worse than the second. Your volume is inconsistent, to be honest. Drummer as well.

Raymeous · #49 01-22-2013, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lavaxtris

would anybody here have any tips for them?

I haven't listened to the clip yet since I'm at work (lunch break) but I have a few things to add to try and help.

1) Listen - You have to listen to the WHOLE band and not just your own noodling. Pay attention and don’t focus on yourself.

2) Play for the SONG! – Seems simple enough. Are you playing just to show off your “mad skillz”? Are those 6 string sweeps at 250 BPM really necessary for that tender love song you wrote for your girl?

3) Breathe – Like a normal conversation you need to take a second and breathe, not only for your own health, but for you point to sink in. Music is the same way. Give the audience time to digest what you’re saying with your playing.

4) Dynamics and Composition – Like the breathing thing, take dynamics and solo composition into consideration. Approach each solo like it is its own piece of music and play with it so it builds and grows and not just a random string of endless notes. Play with different effects during different parts not just "on" or "off". Kick on a special effect during a small passage of the solo.

Ok there's the two minute version. I hope this helps

zon6c-f · #50 01-22-2013, 02:23 PM

I have never made much $$ in bands with "better" musicians. I couldn't believe the low quality of playing; tone, taste and talent we performed with in a country cover band I performed with throughout the 1980's..

Our drummer ...not a good drummer..was a "charmer" with excellent vocals. Guitarist sang too..weakly as were his leads...sad.. He was such a nice guy. However, he got the gigs..AND AUDIENCES LOVED US...EVEN FOLLOWED US to other clubs.

We took home no less than $50 each per night in the 1980's...hardly a cent made whenever I have played with quality/ pro skilled players.

The saying,"Close enough for rock-n-roll" is stretched even further when playing country covers. If the audience can recognize the tune...good enough; they just want to hear their faves and dance to te slow ones. The audience wasn't filled with musicians, so taste, tone, amps and guitar and string brand meant nothing..just play what they want to hear and be able to attempt requests.

If you want to perform with "pro" level players.. be well equipped to handle drama and insults to your abilities..and making little money.

Bass_Pounder · #51 01-22-2013, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lavaxtris

I started this post as a way to figure out what to do with the lead guitar, not the vocals. the lead guitarist has bad timing, the rest do not. the rhythm player cannot solo worth of crap, but thats not his job anyway.

That is a shame then, because as mentioned by many, there are alot more problems other then the lead guitarist.

It's your band though, and if you are happy with everything else you are hearing........

**Ric5** · #52 01-22-2013, 09:33 PM

None of your guitarists are this bad ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsQC6S4M97g

MysticMichael · #53 01-23-2013, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lavaxtris

we've been together for 4 years now. its like they are stuck at an intermediate level of skill and don't know how to improve.

Four years? Yow! This message should probably have been posted at least three years ago...

MM

ErebusBass · #54 01-23-2013, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lavaxtris

would anybody here have any tips for them?

Practice?

AltGrendel · #55 01-23-2013, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lavaxtris

would anybody here have any tips for them?

Have 'em listen to Neil Young on lead.

ErebusBass · #56 01-23-2013, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nashrakh

I think that raises an interesting point, but I'm not sure I agree with the conclusion.

The question is this, is there something like a peak with no way of improvement? And more importantly, how can you tell when you peaked if you can tell at all?

I think there's always room for improving even if it's just a tiny bit - but that some cannot tell whether they play any good or not, that I have seen more often than I'd have liked. But I think it poses a bit of a dilemma if you can't tell yourself.

I think we all know the phenomenon of our first self-recording and suddenly all the errors we weren't aware of stick out like a sore thumb while little details that may have tortured us for a good while are suddenly inaudible. And sometimes we discover something cool about our playing and decide to improve on that. At least that was my experience. But the thing is, we heard that there was something going wrong. When comes the point at which we don't hear it?

I'm no believer in the 'either you have it or you don't' dichotomy often posed when it comes to groove issues and the likes, but this self-awareness thing kind of bugs me since I guess the implications of not being aware of one's peak clashes with our general desire to improve...

Many people arrive at a skill level that they find acceptable and lack the motivation to get to the next level. It has nothing with "either you have it or you don't," some people are just unwilling to put in the work required to improve.

hudpucker · #57 01-23-2013, 02:47 PM

Good Gawd, that was awful.

Serious question: Why would you stay in a band with crummy, talent-challenged guitarists (or rather with guitarists who are impressed by their own current levels of suck)?

moret · #58 01-23-2013, 03:10 PM

Why not grind on cover songs until you(the whole band..) get tight? Easy stuff like ACDC or whatever. With no room for improv, just play the songs as they are. Straight forward.

Nashrakh · #59 01-23-2013, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErebusBass

Many people arrive at a skill level that they find acceptable and lack the motivation to get to the next level. It has nothing with "either you have it or you don't," some people are just unwilling to put in the work required to improve.

True, but that's not quite what I thought of when peaking was mentioned. I understood it as a literal peak, a point in your ability level you cannot go beyond.

Lazy people are lazy, but I wouldn't call it peaking per se.

Maybe I'm overthinking it though.

Piggy8692 · #60 01-23-2013, 05:51 PM

I had an experience once.

I played a few shows where we played with another band who's 'leads' were just vomit inducing, to be polite. It was a metal show so, maybe that was the idea. Guitardist just smashed his fingers around like a 3 year old not even plucking the strings he was playing. I just watched in amazement as their 'following' cheered and held their devil horns up. That was when I really understood that people that don't play music are completely clueless. Makes me mad more than anything.

What a band of idiots.