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Band Management [BG] Examining issues with band membership, interaction, politics, and management.


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  #21  
Old 12-19-2012, 02:41 PM
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Sounds like the stage/show is not the problem so dealing with band members is where you are most concerned?

Is the problem finding bandmates?

Finding someone you connect with musically AND comfortably is very difficult REGARDLESS of introversion or extroversion, so be cautious that your not attributing these common problems to personality as I don't see any "introversion specific" problems in your description so far.
  #22  
Old 12-19-2012, 02:43 PM
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Ez...

Overall...

There's a bit of a misconception... "overly outgoing" folks are considered to be obnoxious by many.

It's easier to be introverted and learn the art of sincerely getting folks to talk about themselves.

The unfortunate thing is music is a networking industry... Unfortunately this is the way it is.

When starting I was always concerned about saying the wrong thing etc.

I then watched some folks who genuinely connected...
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  #23  
Old 12-19-2012, 02:50 PM
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practice extroversion

I'm not exactly shy myself -- closer to asperger's syndrome I guess in that I just don't care that much about making friendships apart from the few close ones I already have. I like being applauded for my playing but I hate people wanting to shake my hand or have strangers try to engage me in a conversation.
Find some people you trust who are go-getters, good with talking to people. My first band had a drummer who was a serious charmer, funny, blunt, could be bossy at times but he got things done.
I just loved making the music and I've always relied on bandmates who would help me break outta my shell. I joined a bar band and after two years I can fake my way through a bit of showmanship and even stage patter. In reality I don't give a darn about any of the audience members, I just love making good music, but with time I've learned to play the part onstage of being someone I'm not.
  #24  
Old 12-19-2012, 02:52 PM
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I'm very much an introvert myself, but I have noticed that when I am passionate about something(music and playing) I can actually override it and throw myself out there, despite the fear or discomfort. I think it does get easier, the more you do push through it and master it.

On the other hand, I don't have much of a social life outside that. All I do is sit around and play bass. Give me a moment, I'm looking for a negative in that.
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  #25  
Old 12-19-2012, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MNAirHead View Post
It's easier to be introverted and learn the art of sincerely getting folks to talk about themselves.

The unfortunate thing is music is a networking industry... Unfortunately this is the way it is....
+1

These were some of the other things I was going to write about in my earlier post, but didn't want to get long winded. Since you say your problem isn't with the stage, but with dealing with people, I'll add to what I said...

Again, I didn't excel with the people skills. But it got much, much better over time. What helped me a lot was reading, and changing some of the things inside my head. Which meant practicing and applying what I read. There are tons of great books out on relating well with others, one (badly titled book) is How to Win Friends and Influence People. It's a much better book than the title suggests, and I think it's an excellent starting point for the skills you're looking for. Along similar but not exactly the same lines are books like Norman Vincent Peale's Power of Positive Thinking. Some of the comments you've made in your posts leads me to think you might benefit from that too. Or whatever works for you.

The other thing I wanted to say is that I remember distincly, seeing a band I liked that was doing excellently in the local scene. I had seen them a bunch of times on stage, they were great and I envied them, not so much for what they did on stage, but for their ability to mingle with their fans afterwars. They always had big smiles on their faces and looked super confident. I wanted that badly, but didn't have it. Had no desire whatsoever after doing a show to do anything but hide in a corner, or head home. That's something else that changed as soon as I was in a band that was happening. The Nerve started taking off for a short while, and those skills I envied just followed. And a lot of it stuck. Like I magically became the person I wanted to be. Great if you able to do that from the start, but if you can't it's not the be all and end all. And there's hope that it can come in the future.

Introverted people are usually more sensitive than extroverts. Like with the stage stuff, this can be plus and not a minus. Putting that sensitivity into working with people to keep them happy in a band or work situation can go a long way. And it doesn't mean you have to be a people pleaser.

Last note in this is that I found a lot of my, and I'm pretty sure most peole's introverted crap comes from being self conscious. Some people aren't for reasons I don't know, but I was born with a double dose. Best way out of that for me is to think what I can bring to a situation, as opposed to what I can get out of it. I use that on stage, in rehearsals, and in most of what I do these days. Or at least I try my best to bring it. Simplest way I've heard it put goes along with the prayer thing. I tell myself that my purpose is to "bless, not impress". I ask for the power to be able to live that too.
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  #26  
Old 12-19-2012, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
introverted crap comes from being self conscious.
Maybe so. Chicken or egg? Is self conciousness part of introversion, does introversion start with self conciousness. Or are they related but not the same.

Whichever way, I had a lot of it too, for a long time. Worrying about how I would come over, how I would look to others, whether or not I was good enough to be there, etc..........

Again, just had to change my perspective and push past it. Let go of as much fear and doubt as possible and control the rest.
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  #27  
Old 12-20-2012, 01:08 AM
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We should have a club.

I started playing in bands partly to put myself on the line and get out of my introvert's cocoon. This has really helped me in public events, giving lectures and seminars, etc.
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  #28  
Old 12-20-2012, 01:34 AM
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I'm something of an introvert myself, particularly with people I have respect for. With local bands who I'm friendly with, I want so badly for them to think I'm a good guy that I over think every little thing I do until I make a fool of myself and leave.

My main thing to beat is self-doubt. It's crippling for a musicians, whether it's professional or just for fun. There is no point at all in thinking you're incapable, unless it's fueling something productive, like getting capable. It's a big problem with me.
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  #29  
Old 12-20-2012, 02:21 AM
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I think a lot of people have the common misconception introvert involves being a shy guy. Introverts channel inwards meaning they are often less expressive to others regarding their feelings, thoughts, opinions, etc. It does NOT necessarily mean they are scared or uncomfortable around others (although that is sometimes the case and often results from being shunned by more outgoing people).

Obviously, Ezmar has no issues with being around people, he just feels that his communication skills are not adequate enough for a band setting.

HOWEVER, Ezmar you must know that the key to a successful band is NOT being able to sit and have a beer with your bandmates, it's all about conversing with each other in music. It's all about listening and responding to each while playing, and this only happens with talented musicians who know their instruments. Since you are confident you have that down, you are already halfway there in being able to connect with others musically.

You seem to be an introvert in life, and an extrovert in music. Consider yourself lucky because the majority of people spend their whole lives listening to walkmans/radios/ipods/cds/records/etc. because they are music introverts.
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  #30  
Old 12-20-2012, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VinKreepo


HOWEVER, Ezmar you must know that the key to a successful band is NOT being able to sit and have a beer with your bandmates, it's all about conversing with each other in music. It's all about listening and responding to each while playing, and this only happens with talented musicians who know their instruments. Since you are confident you have that down, you are already halfway there in being able to connect with others musically.
Ill dispute this as being misleading

"Successful" (since this is a band "management" forum - not an art board) overall means a group that creates a following, has longevity and gets paid

Being that this is a bass forum ill encourage you to compare and contrast successful bands and those that fizzle out

When get called for a gig my reply is "I'll sing, play upright or 7 string, own a full pa/backdrop/lights and sell" NOT "... Well... Um... A.. I own a Fender and like Rush"

I sincerely believe that for us to help EZ, the best context is how to connect.... Not avoid or excuse it

----
I have a drummer friend---- crazy precise metronome guy..... The audience makes fun of him due to his uncomfortable social skills ---- we gig someone who sells more beer

-----

There are some great audio books on starting and continuing communication - at this point in your career it may be a wise investment .... Put down the bass and learn how to connect

----

If you intend on recording your own material by yourself (nine inch nails)... Forget many of your replies
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  #31  
Old 12-20-2012, 07:56 AM
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This reminds me back years ago.....


"You look uncomfortable on stage.... You have a month to fix it or well find someone else"

Guess what my right answer was
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  #32  
Old 12-20-2012, 09:15 AM
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The only thing I can add for the OP is this, by my observation part of what we are doing is searching for what is authentically us inside, and once one finds that the "drag coefficient" of life drops and things can move quickly - the quiet confidence of knowing who and where you are makes one quite aerodynamic. Or as Bootsy says, " the sky's not your limit, its your HOME!"

Yet, we have to keep putting ourselves in uncomfortable places to explore who we truly are inside. it is a dialectic process. Building/rebuilding/new truths.

Also, and this is a Key point, , if I was told I was a "shy boy" or "not like the other kids" as a child, don't you think those judgements by others could form a "skein" over my real skin? and how do I find myself and shed those imposed masks that turned to skin?

By doing things that make me feel uncomfortable.

So shy or not, introverted or not, part of our mission on this earth is to build orenda - the grace of our soul, and you MUST get out of your comfort zone frequently to do that.

the issue you raise is a common axiom of life. Dont be scared. Jump in. As they said in the Army, "they can kill ya, but they cant eat ya." So why worry!?

Jumpmaster says JUMP! and JUMP! often.

If you fail, it's not failure, its a deeper understanding of who you are, and what your authentic place in the world is. Dialectic process. They can't eat ya, so why worry at all - JUMP! In this context, failure is a fine option.
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Last edited by BuffaloBass : 12-20-2012 at 09:19 AM.
  #33  
Old 12-20-2012, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by funkingroovin View Post
Not true,Blue..think of all the successful 'shoe-gazer' bands out there that started out the same way..
I agree. Im quite the introvert myself, and I had a hard time with networking and doing the band leader thing, at first. It didnt take long to warm up because I had confidence in the music and it was something that I loved. The whole "being in a band" thing can really help an introvert out of their shell, or at least learn how to operate amongst extroverts at a communicable level.
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  #34  
Old 12-20-2012, 09:35 AM
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Like all things in out free market economy - the closer you are to selling the more successful you'll become

In music management it's about selling.... Something to someone
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