HOW DO YOU TAME YOUNG GUITARISTS?

PilbaraBass · #1 02-23-2007, 10:01 PM

at church, we've got a few new young musicians...all great guys, and they're really inspired...but there's a couple of problems...

1) the drummer plays TOO loud and without feel...I've got that covered...coming from a similar background, I'm constantly giving him "feel" pointers...and the guy is really responding

2) the guitarist HATES treble...his tones are big round and BASSY...It is so bad that I can't even tell 1/2 the time if I'm even PLAYING...

The soundman and myself have been trying to show him that those sweet chimy tones are where he should be shooting for, but he just put his Strat copy on the shelf for his new Epi SG double-bucker...OH NOOOO!! And when he plays that thing through a couple of his "custom" patches on his new Zoom G2 (loaded with bass and chorus)...the sound is akin to an Irish peat bog on a foggy day in early April...'TAIN'T GOOD!

any suggestions?...seriously...

Steve · #2 02-23-2007, 10:30 PM

Tell him that while his tone is awsome, it is completely inappropriate for what you are doing and he needs to dial it back.

Or, hand him a Telecaster and say, "use this"

ibnzneksrul · #3 02-23-2007, 10:53 PM

Have the soundguy make a recording to show him how muddy he sounds.

TeeMartin · #4 02-23-2007, 11:28 PM

Drummer-buy him some Rush CDs

Guitarist-buy him some Rush CDs

Have you tried out-bassing him? Or switching to a punchier attack?

Trevorus · #5 02-23-2007, 11:29 PM

How about putting all your songs in standard notation sheet music... :P

ahkiatt · #6 02-23-2007, 11:56 PM

introduce your guitarist to a bass... or hand him a tele... that oughta work...

Dave · #7 02-24-2007, 12:02 AM

Use a big stick, I prefer 2x4s. Nice and hefty, but still easy to handle.

Trevorus · #8 02-24-2007, 12:09 AM

Just have to be civil and tell him if he doesn't quit stepping all over your frequency range, you'll civilly shove his guitar where the sun doesn't shine.

xifr · #9 02-24-2007, 12:30 AM

Have everyone in the band tell him that his tone is too bassy and not giving the bass any frequency range. At this point he'll probably be pissed off, but change it. Have some people who have no idea about music say at the end of the gig (w/ guitarist present) that they don't know why, but it sounded a lot better than usual.

elros · #10 02-24-2007, 03:09 AM

perhaps your guitar player really wants to play the bas guitar?

PilbaraBass · #11 02-24-2007, 05:37 AM

interesting suggestions...I think the recording idea is the best...nothing like an audio recording to highlight things...

as far as "out bassing" him...not a good idea...at all...I already play with a good measure of attack...but you can't play like that on every song...I try to play musically...

in fact, if I have to play less to get the sound closer to where it should be, I will.

morf · #12 02-24-2007, 07:43 AM

Cover the same range, and drown him. He'll get the message.

Wilbyman · #13 02-24-2007, 07:44 AM

Taser

jayp883 · #14 02-24-2007, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave

Use a big stick, I prefer 2x4s. Nice and hefty, but still easy to handle.

+1

Zappstorius · #15 02-24-2007, 09:45 PM

Sounds like the guitarist is influenced by heavy music (where a bassy guitar tone is optimal), and sounds like the drummer is as well. Tell him that sound is cool, but not the type of music you're trying to make at church. Recording the sessions probably will work best. Nothing like hearing yourself sound completely foreign from the rest of the group (assuming that he is). Otherwise, do the opposite, play a trillion fills in the higher register to show him that you can sound equally out of place...and then everyone sounds like crap. Lastly, ask him who his influences are on guitar...then find a song that he/she plays less-softer.

Alivefor5 · #16 02-24-2007, 09:55 PM

The recording is a good idea. Then if you're doing any cover tunes at all record some of those and A/B them with the originals. It will be easy to say that his tone is not in the spirit (pun) of the original.

Dkerwood · #17 02-24-2007, 11:10 PM

Dude, when you're a young guitarist, you haven't had the experience yet that is required for some serious perspective. I remember when I started out, I crafted my tone with care. The only problem was that I was aiming for my guitar to cover the entire sonic spectrum. I hadn't had the experience yet to teach me that my power chords didn't have to drive the band.

When I hit college, I finally found a guy with a bass amp big enough (and a tone good enough) to show me whose job it really was to cover the low end. I didn't know how to fix it, but I knew that I needed to accommodate the bassist.

I'm embarrassed to say that I played in a number of professional settings with that same old scoop on my amp's EQ. Again, I was aware of the problem, but didn't possess the knowledge to fix it.

Finally, one day someone was listening to my band at the time and said, "Can I help you guys with some EQ?" I respected the guy a great deal, so I said ok. He went over to the bass amp and dialed in the nicest, roundest tone I'd ever heard. Then he stepped over to my amp and actually *gasp* turned up the mids. I've been running my amps flat (EQ to taste) ever since.

Fast forward to now. I just picked up a little Digitech multi-FX pedal for church (don't want to use my big rig), and I'm programming my few church patches. Needless to say, I've gone right back to the old FILL THE SPECTRUM WITH MY GUITAR ONLY mode. I'm playing with the band, and every single patch has too many effects, too much EQing, too much gain... but it sounded great back home while programming! I finally compromised with myself. I have my "Jimi Hendrix National Anthem" patch tricked out with every effect and terrible EQ trick I know, but the other patches are constantly evolving (by evolving, I mean that I'm turning down/turning off stuff that I originally put in). By now, most of them are pretty trebly, though. ;-)

My advice to you: If you know how to operate his FX pedal, go ahead and let him play while you tweak. When it hits that right spot, he'll know it. He knows that something is wrong with what he's hearing, but it's such a counter-intuitive thought: Something that sounds great on its own sounds terrible in the mix? Crazy. Common thought would tell us that a bunch of great tones should make an even GREATER band tone. Alas.

Good luck with him. He wants to be useful, so help him to be.

Your drummer? Ummm... I used to drum in a certain church that wouldn't let me play the drums at a volume that lets them achieve their characteristic tone, and that drove me crazy. So they used to always say that I was too loud. Maybe this is his problem. Maybe he thinks that the drums must be hit at that volume to sound good. Maybe he's right, maybe not. Hand him some HotStix or Lightning Rods. Or you could always go with the plexiglass shield - it works two ways. First, it blocks direct sound waves from the drummer. Secondly, it reflects those sound waves right back to the drummer, making him SOUND louder to himself than he sounded to himself previously. It's usually a great way to quiet a heavy hitter down.

Otherwise, think electric kit. :-)

invader3k · #18 02-25-2007, 08:16 AM

You could always try the old "don't play for one song, then ask how your bass lines sounded, then point out that you weren't playing because he was already providing all the bass." That should straighten him out.

AmazingGracePlayer · #19 02-25-2007, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilbaraBass

at church, we've got a few new young musicians...all great guys, and they're really inspired...but there's a couple of problems...

1) the drummer plays TOO loud and without feel...I've got that covered...coming from a similar background, I'm constantly giving him "feel" pointers...and the guy is really responding

2) the guitarist HATES treble...his tones are big round and BASSY...It is so bad that I can't even tell 1/2 the time if I'm even PLAYING...

The soundman and myself have been trying to show him that those sweet chimy tones are where he should be shooting for, but he just put his Strat copy on the shelf for his new Epi SG double-bucker...OH NOOOO!! And when he plays that thing through a couple of his "custom" patches on his new Zoom G2 (loaded with bass and chorus)...the sound is akin to an Irish peat bog on a foggy day in early April...'TAIN'T GOOD!

any suggestions?...seriously...

Have the guitarist play your bass, and you can play guitar. There, it all works out

anonymous278347457 · #20 02-25-2007, 04:17 PM

get a 11 string bass and start stealing his frequencies.

Or you and the drummer could play really quiet, so he has to clean up to actually be able to hear you.