How helpful are soundguys at pay to play gigs?

Vic Winters · #1 02-19-2007, 12:14 PM

This will be my first show at an actual venue, and as such, I've never had to deal with a sound guy before. This is basically a pay to play gig. Not bad though, only had to sell 5 tickets/member at $5 each. How are sound guys in this kind of situation? Do they offer you some respect, or because you're not well known, and only on stage for a short while do they have you scrape by with the bare minimum? Are they open to your requests or have it their way? I know its a venue to venue deal for the most part, but I'm just looking for a general idea.

I ask because it will depend on how I run my sound to FOH.

My ideal would be to run a clean signal from my BDI21 placed first in my chain, then use the DI out on my Backline 600 for any effects I use, and have them mixed together. Preserving as much low end as possible.

Second choice would be either running a DI out from the BDI21 last in the signal chain or from the Backline 600.

My absolute last choice would be using a crappy passive DI box first in the chain, and not getting any effects to the FOH.

Any input? Any ideas on how to go about the situation so I can at least attempt to get things my way?

slamjet · #2 02-19-2007, 12:20 PM

Be prepared for anything. Soundguys and house systems are not all the same. As far as some of them are concerned, you're in their house, and they either act that way and loathe you or treat you as a guest. It's a toss up. Then, in my opinion, most haven't a clue what they're doing.

mellofello · #3 02-19-2007, 03:02 PM

I understand the clean signal from the BDI, but wouldn't the signal from the Backline 600 already be mixed ? i mean if the signal is not fairly wet it's going to be hard to mix it with the dry signal. Or are you wanting him to switch back and forth ? Also, how many songs, how long are you playing for ?

Jerry Ziarko · #4 02-19-2007, 04:44 PM

Vic, PM me and let me know where you are playing. I know just about every sound tech in the area. What club are you working and is it a house install? If it is a house install, who owns it. Let me know tonight and I'll see what you might be up against.

ntimkovich · #5 02-19-2007, 04:47 PM

my sympathies to those you in the pay-to-play markets. it must really suck to have to buy your own tickets, just to get on stage...

Vic Winters · #6 02-19-2007, 04:49 PM

We're probably doing 5 songs (about half hour) since we're the first band of 3 and we have the least exposure.

My ideal setup for the night would run:

Bass>BDI21>PD7>105Q>PH-3>DigiDelay>Bass-30 (DOD Multi FX Unit used for Compression, Noise Gate, Tuner/Mute)>Backline 600 running post eq.

Perhaps it would be better to run a DI/Mic setup similar to Flea? He usues DI for the clean then mics a speaker for any effects he may use. It's blended well despite the fact that he doesn't use effects all that often.

Zappstorius · #7 02-19-2007, 07:27 PM

I would try to explain it to the soundguy just like you're explaining it to us. But be prepared to deal with a guy that doesn't know what he's doing. I've found that it's easier to go DI/Mic and have him blend the signal.

Spoiled Grape · #8 02-20-2007, 01:51 AM

What Zapp said.

Get used to working with different sound guys, and making it as EASY as possible on them. If the sound guy is smart and willing to work with you, than you can add on all the additional chains.

Otherwise, I'd just DI/Mic. Even now, when we tour with a manager and booking agent, sometimes I just have to go with the cheapo DI.

I personally like to go DI from my amp. Run any effects through the head.

mellofello · #9 02-20-2007, 03:58 AM

well being the first band is a real advantage, cause you can get there early and discuss it with him. Be forewarned though, as you are only playing 5 songs, and there are several bands, the soundguy is probably going to be looking for a quick setup. If you are concerned about hearing the effects you may NOT want him to use the clean DI. cuz if he is getting a nice feed from it he may not mix in enough of the mic to hear your effects. I once ran sound for a 12 band showcase, and although I desparately try to listen to every artist's concerns, I'm sure there were a few that left there thinking I was "that a-hole soundguy" i mean there were over 50 musicians and my goal was to get the next band playing as quick as possible. And most of the guitard's would wind up cranking there amp so loud that I barely had to put them in the mix anyway. I would think the dude would be down with having a d.i. and a mic, I mean that gives him more stuff to tinker with. But just remember, if he insists on just shoving a mic in front of your cab, that certainly doesn't mean you will sound bad. I mean really, not to be mean, but the sound coming out of your amp is really your sound, right ?, not the clean D.I. signal ?? Cat's like flea, who send a clean D.I. are probably either clean tone players, or have a tech who adds an effect's chain before it hit's the board. But like I said if you get there early enough you can prolly even get the guy to experiment a little, the only way to really know is to try.

DemoEtc · #10 02-20-2007, 07:29 AM

Most sound guys like it when they're handed a stage-plot/tech-rider; you could prepare one for you and your band. Detail 2-3 versions, from complex to simple, with options you think they might be able to handle.

When you hand it to them, go over it with them right then and there. They're usually impressed that you took the time and were considerate enough to put yourself in their shoes and try and think of alternatives that they could use. If nothing else, it'll make them remember you (and what you talked about) when they see your page on their clipboard.

Just google 'tech rider' for some examples.

Best regards.

Vic Winters · #11 02-20-2007, 10:19 AM

I checked the article again, at least at the time the article was written, he used 2 DI's and a mic. An active DI pre-effects and a passive DI post effects, then miced a speaker with a Shure SM98.

justabass · #12 02-20-2007, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ntimkovich

my sympathies to those you in the pay-to-play markets. it must really suck to have to buy your own tickets, just to get on stage...

Ditto...That sucks big...

Spoiled Grape · #13 02-20-2007, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DemoEtc

Most sound guys like it when they're handed a stage-plot/tech-rider; you could prepare one for you and your band. Detail 2-3 versions, from complex to simple, with options you think they might be able to handle.

When you hand it to them, go over it with them right then and there. They're usually impressed that you took the time and were considerate enough to put yourself in their shoes and try and think of alternatives that they could use. If nothing else, it'll make them remember you (and what you talked about) when they see your page on their clipboard.

Just google 'tech rider' for some examples.

Best regards.

Even better advice!

Just be prepared. Not all sound guys are pros, and some are so professional they will make you feel small. Just let it ride, play great, and don't worry so much about your "ideal" tone.

Lanztek · #14 02-20-2007, 12:13 PM

I've had sound guys look at me funny when I tell them I need the effects in my signal to FOH. They say "but, you're a bass player. I just need a clean signal from you." I've also had sound guys, like our regular sound guy, who insist that he get's a clean signal from my SABDDI and a signal from a mic in front of my amp. He loves blending the two for the best punch.

Recently I've changed my pedalboard up so the only way to give him a clean signal is out of my punch factory. He's fine with that as well.

The important thing for you to do is act professional. Explain to him why you feel you need both signals to be blended. If he's not cool with that or he says there's not enough time, ask if it's okay if you send a signal with effects included.

The key here is to be professional and WORK WITH the sound guy. They have a special button on the board called the "suck button" that can kill you in a hurry.

Jerry Ziarko · #15 02-21-2007, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DemoEtc

Most sound guys like it when they're handed a stage-plot/tech-rider; you could prepare one for you and your band. Detail 2-3 versions, from complex to simple, with options you think they might be able to handle.

When you hand it to them, go over it with them right then and there. They're usually impressed that you took the time and were considerate enough to put yourself in their shoes and try and think of alternatives that they could use. If nothing else, it'll make them remember you (and what you talked about) when they see your page on their clipboard.

Just google 'tech rider' for some examples.

Best regards.

THIS IS EXCELLENT ADVICE!!!!! It doesn't have to be elaborate, but clear and easy to understand. I'll try emailing you a sample.

jayp883 · #16 03-01-2007, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanztek

I've had sound guys look at me funny when I tell them I need the effects in my signal to FOH. They say "but, you're a bass player. I just need a clean signal from you." I've also had sound guys, like our regular sound guy, who insist that he get's a clean signal from my SABDDI and a signal from a mic in front of my amp. He loves blending the two for the best punch.

Recently I've changed my pedalboard up so the only way to give him a clean signal is out of my punch factory. He's fine with that as well.

The important thing for you to do is act professional. Explain to him why you feel you need both signals to be blended. If he's not cool with that or he says there's not enough time, ask if it's okay if you send a signal with effects included.

The key here is to be professional and WORK WITH the sound guy. They have a special button on the board called the "suck button" that can kill you in a hurry.

+1000

F.L.E.A · #17 03-02-2007, 09:12 AM

I have only played a few gigs with sound guys and from what i know one of the best things you can do is give them a cash tip it dosent have to be alot even 5-10 bucks just to show you are thankful for them this way you are garanteed to be given a good show.

Juniorkimbrough · #18 03-02-2007, 09:36 AM

be nice, polite and respectful and it should work out fine. most soundguys i've dealt with were very nice but a lot of times they get a bad wrap because of a$$hole rock star wanna be's and their demanding, know-it-all attitudes.

also try and keep it simple, especially with a gig where several bands are playing the same night.....personally i wouldn't ask to be mic'd AND go DI especially just for a 5 song set, ask for one or the other or whichever the soundguys prefers. Most I've ran into prefer D.I. but there is one place the soundguys INSISTED on mic'ing even though I had my own good D.I. box....what happened? I let him mic me and made him happy and I sounded good.

Don't let this be you on stage.....